Live View for Maximum Sharpness with 5DII

Shooting with Live View for Maximum Sharpness with 5DII

Following up on a recent FM thread on use of Live View and MLU (mirror lock up):

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/904829

a post by photoguy referenced this entry where a researcher using a Canon 50D was trying to optimize Live View use for photo microscopy

http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html

He shows examples and communications with Chuck Westfall of Canon describing the sequence of events when using Live View Silent Mode. On the 5D you get to this via Menu, Live View/Movie func. set, then Silent Shoot with a choice of disable, mode 1 and mode 2. Chuck's description is more detailed, but to summarize:

In Silent Shooting, mode disabled, the mirror stays up, but the shutter closes then opens to take a shot. It closes again to end the shot and reopens to reinitiate Live View.

In the Silent Shooting mode 1, the mirror also stays up the whole time but the shutter does not close nor reopen to shoot, but stays open and the exposure is initiated electronically, with a soft click. The shutter then closes to end the exposure, then immeiately reopens to reinitiate Live View. Continuous shooting is slowed down.

Silent Shooting mode 2 is similar to mode 1, but at the end of the exposure the shutter closes, but does not reopen until your finger pressure is off the shutter button. Continuous is not possible.

Since I have 4 manual focus lenses I use Live View very frequently for landscape shooting on a tripod. I ran a test to see if Live View Silent Shooting Mode 1 or 2 would make a improvement by reducing vibration as both modes eliminate closing of the shutter to initiate the shot.

Thus I set up a situation to amplify visual detection of MLU type vibration. I took the longest lens on hand, Canon 400 f5.6, added a 1.4X teleconverter and then slowed down the shutter speed with ISO 50, a circular polarizer and a 2 stop ND filter. I focused with Live View 5-10X on a house across the valley from inside my house, more than 1/2 mile away. Manfrotto 055CXPRO4 Carbon fiber tripod was used with RRS BH40 head. I used a remote in addition to a 2 sec delay to make sure no vibration was accidently added by some other mechanism. At f8 I was at 1/15 sec and at f16 I was at 1/4 sec, bracketing the shutter range most susceptible to MLU type vibrations, 1/30 to 1/2 sec. All shots were in RAW, with some sharpening added during conversion, all at the same level of course.

Here is the full frame shot reduced in size for posting:

While there are some nearby OOF branches framing the shot, I will evaluate only 100% crops of the center deck of the house. Here is the crop of Live View Silent Shooting Disabled:

Notice the bricks of the chimney, the cable running next to it, the wood crack in the upper right and the dark leaves of the potted plants on the right. In particular notice the wire tomato cage (funnel shaped). Next is the same shot, same exposure, same focus, seconds later using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 1.

Sharper. The tomato cage is much more detailed, and this is of a 2mm wire from > 1/2 mi away.
Here is the same exposure, same focus, using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 2.

the chimney and the plant leaves look pretty similar to Mode 1 but the wire tomato cage appears clearer in mode 2.

Here is the same shot at f16, 1/4 sec. Some manual refocusing between these next shots and the previous 3, so don't make that comparison. Live View Silent Shooting Disabled:

And the same exposure and focus seconds later using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 1

And again the same exposure and focus seconds later using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 2

In this sequence we can easily make out the Live View Silent Shooting Disabled is not as crisp as Mode 1. Mode 2 is very close to the detail of Mode 1; the tomato cage is just a bit sharper in Mode 2.

In summary, the Silent Shooting Mode 1 or 2 provides an small but consistent improvement in image sharpness over Live View Silent Shooting Disabled. This result is also consistent with the photo microscopy paper referred to above. Thanks to Charles Krebs for the write up and communication with C. Westfall. This result is also quite logical in that Silent Shooting Mode 1 & 2 use electronic shutter for first curtain, and avoid the additional mechanical closing and reopening of the shutter that is present in the Live View Silent Shooting Disabled. Traditional MLU operation is a bit in between in that it does not require closing of the shutter to reopen it for the exposure as in Live View Silent Shooting Disabled, but does involve mechanically opening the shutter as opposed to electronically initiating exposure. If it makes any difference the mirror does come back down at the end of the shot during MLU but not in live view. The Krebs paper does support the Live View Silent Shooting Modes as being sharper than traditional MLU, but I did not confirm that. Cameras with Live View Silent Shooting modes would probably be better off not turning off Live View to return to MLU.

The results presented suggest that Live View Silent Shooting Mode 2 may be a bit better than Mode 1, but the difference is small, if any. There is no obvious reason for it to be different as the Modes 1 & 2 differ in what happens after the shutter closes to end the exposure.

Mike K

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. Been using live view and manual focus a lot. Have to give it a try.
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http://mitchseaver.com/

Before Live View I could never do this .... tried many times, but never got it this good. This was taken yesterday with my MkIV, 100-400L, 2 1.4x & 1 2x converter for a eq. 2038mm. With MLU, but I forgot my remote switch : ) After 7+ years I might be able to find out some history on this eagle. He's been a longtime friend & very productive. MkIV does not have silent modes in Live View though. The MkIV does have silent mode for TTL though & that is nice.

Thanks for doing the research on this. I use LV but was unaware of these modes. I will surely now switch to m1 or 2.
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-paul

Live view is your friend for static shots, Iv'e been using it for a while now with exposure simulation, I get more in focus and better exposed work than ever before.
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Image's In Light
http://rossmurphy.zenfolio.com/
http://imagesinlightnw.blogspot.com/

cs hauser wrote:

I hope this will once and for all put an end to all the clamor for dedicated MLU buttons on EOS cameras. Clearly, MLU by itself suffers from more camera shake than a proper Live View exposure. That means there's no reason why anyone would need an MLU button when there's already Live View button on every Canon camera.

Other brands are still handicapped with inefficient implementations of Live View. But Canon has clearly moved moved well beyond those limitations, and at this stage an MLU button would serve absolutely no purpose on any EOS camera.

I agree and will make sure M Reichmann sees this! He seems to be the most ardent advocate for dedicated MLU, and until a good live view implementation I would have agreed with him. Canon is clearly ahead of Nikon with this implementation as Nikon requires that in Live View the mirror flips down for exposure. Lots of extra vibration. I would guess this indicated Canon's lead over Nikon in video as well.
Mike K

It would be that shooting at this distance introduces the risk of atmospheric effects influencing the final image. I have no idea how real that risk is, but picking a closer subject would eliminate it.

My only other question would be what the relevance is for the typical landscape photographer? I assume you chose a long focal length to amplify the effects of camera movement, but of course this is not a typical situation - at least not for me. I never use long focal lengths at slow shutter speeds, though I routinely use short focal lengths at long shutter speeds.

Not trying to detract from the admirably scientific approach, but rather attempting to determine the extent to which it's relevant to me

Kevin

The point of this post was that Live View silent shooting is technically better (less vibration) than the traditional film based technique of mirror lock up. This is news for most of us, it was for me! I no longer need Canon to design in a dedicated MLU button. If you are using a remote, even the 2-10 sec delay is wasted effort.

Yes, a long focal length lens was used to amplify the visible effects of vibration. It makes sense that there is some vibration from the shutter opening Vs already being opened and exposure being electronically initiated. I wanted to see if the difference was visible.

I wouldn't worry about atmospheric effects, the house is not that far away, and the space between is relatively cool and protected from strong winds. The camera is indoors shooting out a window. As far as relevance, I certainly use the 400 f5.6 lens for landscape shooting. This is especially true if I want to capture the moon in the shot.
Here are a few Golden Gate examples.

Mike K

The amazing thing to me is how many people still say "oh I don need or want live view" with out even trying it, its a great tool and here to stay. Hopefully they will improve on it for the next gen of camera.
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Image's In Light
http://rossmurphy.zenfolio.com/
http://imagesinlightnw.blogspot.com/

If you are using Live View, I see no real advantage of Silent Shooting disabled. Chuck Westfall does not elaborate on continuous shooting speed with Live View disabled Vs Live View silent shooting mode 1.

Continuous shooting basically ignores camera induced vibrations by depending upon a fast shutter speed to minimize blur. The priority with continuous is catching the action, and it is presumed your subject is likely moving as well?
Mike K

Thanks for the great info. I guess I'm out of luck, I cannot find such settings on my 1D3 menu.

The 1D series does not have Live View Silent Shooting feature. I'm not sure why this is not true of the 1DIV as it is a video related feature. The silent shooting feature they do have on the 1D bodies has nothing to do with Live View and initiating the exposure. Rather it delays the mirror coming back down and recocking the shutter until you release the pressure off of the shutter button (half press). In this way it is analogous to LV SS mode 2. This distributes the sound from the end of the exposure over a wider period of time with the perception of less noticeable sound.
Mike K