Upgrading 40D to 7D???

Started May 3, 2010 | Discussions
OnStage New Member • Posts: 22
Re: re-invent yourself :)

Yeah, don't do the 5d mkI. It's a great camera but you'd be making a huge investmant in badly outdated tech (except for the sensor which is one of the best ever)

40D is a lovely camera, I feel that it's one of the best balanced cameras Canon has ever made (features vs price vs size - in context of when it was released) and still a very capable photographic tool.

7d is great, easily the best crop camera I've ever used. But, it doesn't fundamentally do anything that the 40d can't, it just does it bigger and faster and has better feel. New glass on the other hand gives you and entirely new way of seeing.

Do you have a clear use for the 70-200 2.8 II? Not that it's not worth every penny (I will upgrade as soon as I can) but it's a beast to carry and there are good options if you don't need the f 2.8.

No matter what you do pick up a 50 1.8, I also enjoy my 35 f2 and 85 1.8. The 35 and 50 are a little raw around the edges, but great for the $$. The 85 is just a lovely tool.
Most important - keep shooting!
(got to go take my own advice...)
cheers,
john

SumLunatik Junior Member • Posts: 28
Re: Upgrading 40D to 7D???

I would get the glass. I have a 40D with the 17-55 and the 70-200 2.8. I have loved the combo. Do not get me wrong, the 7D is a fantastic camera, I rented one for a month. It was very nice for what I like to take pictures of: mostly sports and wildlife and by wildlife I mean my kids and dog.

I think the lens will do more for you than the camera body at this time. If you could afford both then have at it, but I just think that your best bang for your buck would be the lens.

Right now I still have the 40D, but I just started getting the dreaded Err 99, and now it completely shuts off when you completely press the shutter, so I may be upgrading even though I was not quite ready.

Good Luck
David

40d_dane Senior Member • Posts: 1,034
Re: Upgrading 40D to 7D???

To me it doesn't really sound like you need to upgrade...

For what you do, you don't need the 7D. The 40D should do just fine. If you really want to get new gear, getting a 70-200 will give you a lot more to play with in terms of the photos you will be able to take with your gear. In most cases with what you shoot you will find that if you look at the same image captured using the same lens and either a 40D and a 7D printed at a reasonable size you will not be able to tell which was captured using a 40D and which was captured using a 7D.

Anyway if you decide to upgrade to the 7D don't sell you 40D before you are convinced that your 7D work properly. I have returned four 7D's because they either were faulty or didn't capture images that match what I get from my 40D due to miss focus with the 7D. Others have had much more success with the 7D.

MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,566
Re: re-invent yourself :)

OnStage wrote:

Yeah, don't do the 5d mkI. It's a great camera (except for the sensor which is one of the best ever)
40D is a lovely camera,

He could get the 5d and keep the 40d. The 5d is like doubling all your fovs with your lenses, and giving him more dof control. F2.8 on a 5d is f4.5 dof on a 40d. Also, 5d iis good on the face....7d will not help the face with the extra resolution. I have both the 5d and 40d

re jm67 - in a prior post -- he's worried that I'll move to his town when I retire and take his game away...

He uses both 7d and 40d for weddings which is monolithic crop thinking imo - he could do better with a 40d and 5d combo imo

re Dave - dave still shoots film and keeps saying I only have dof control on my mind -- I mentioned at least three factors above many times in prior threads -- he has consistently shown he can't read...

regarding both dave and jm67 - both say in this thread to buy glass vs the 7d...obviously they aren't that impressed with their 7d's. What I've said, is that owning a 5d and a 40d opens up more creative shooting opportunities than just one 7d. I've said that when I bought my 5d, I found it was like buying classic, expensive glass - because that is what it gives shooters who know what crop gives and know what a 5di FF gives. Neither dave nor jm67 have owned 5d1

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jm67 Contributing Member • Posts: 913
Re: re-invent yourself :)

MAC wrote:

re jm67 - in a prior post -- he's worried that I'll move to his town when I retire and take his game away...

Oh, I guess you missed the sarcasm. No worries around here about you stealing good paying customers. They prefer quality vs. quantity. Keep your day job whatever it is. It certainly isn't wedding photography and there are very few in this area that'll tolerate hobbyists.

He uses both 7d and 40d for weddings which is monolithic crop thinking imo - he could do better with a 40d and 5d combo imo

You're right. My crop lineup is 7D with 40 backup. My FF lineup is two 5D2s. And I doubt I'd be doing any better by tossing it all for a 5D. You've simply mistaken my support of the 7D for a hatred of FF.

re Dave - dave still shoots film and keeps saying I only have dof control on my mind -- I mentioned at least three factors above many times in prior threads -- he has consistently shown he can't read...

Can't speak for Dave but it's true you keep going from issue to issue and your latest is razor thin dof. You lost out on better noise, lost out on better IQ so have resorted to razor dof. If you really did weddings for a living instead of a hobby you'd know how few times having only the Bride's eye in focus is useful.

regarding both dave and jm67 - both say in this thread to buy glass vs the 7d...obviously they aren't that impressed with their 7d's. What I've said, is that owning a 5d and a 40d opens up more creative shooting opportunities than just one 7d. I've said that when I bought my 5d, I found it was like buying classic, expensive glass - because that is what it gives shooters who know what crop gives and know what a 5di FF gives. Neither dave nor jm67 have owned 5d1

That's not what you said. You told him to sell his 40D. Now who is it that can't read? And if you'd read the OP reply to me earlier, you'd have noticed that his uses for the camera don't warrant buying an old relic. His 40D serves him well and he'd get different creative shots with different lenses. Again, try reading before writing. Typical of you to take the gist of a thread and turn it all into rants and raves about crop vs FF. Try listening to a poster and offering advice for a change instead of...."you oughta sell everything and buy a 5D the rockin-ist camera ever (cause I have one)". Could you at least tell him to buy a 5D2? No, cause you don't have one.

Well, that was a good belly laugh. Thanks.

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,566
Re: re-invent yourself :)

jm67 wrote:

Oh, I guess you missed the sarcasm.

Haha

You're right. My crop lineup is 7D with 40 backup. My FF lineup is two 5D2s. And I doubt I'd be doing any better by tossing it all for a 5D. You've simply mistaken my support of the 7D for a hatred of FF.

Haha again -- A pair of 5d2's hey? and you even bother to take a 7d to a wedding? better hide now--you are on the wrong forum

Can't speak for Dave but it's true you keep going from issue to issue and your latest is razor thin dof. You lost out on better noise, lost out on better IQ so have resorted to razor dof. If you really did weddings for a living instead of a hobby you'd know how few times having only the Bride's eye in focus is useful.

no I didn't -- look at the noise comparison in this post:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=35026428

That's not what you said. You told him to sell his 40D. Now who is it that can't read? And if you'd read the OP reply to me earlier, you'd have noticed that his uses for the camera don't warrant buying an old relic. His 40D serves him well and he'd get different creative shots with different lenses. Again, try reading before writing. Typical of you to take the gist of a thread and turn it all into rants and raves about crop vs FF. Try listening to a poster and offering advice for a change instead of...."you oughta sell everything and buy a 5D the rockin-ist camera ever (cause I have one)". Could you at least tell him to buy a 5D2? No, cause you don't have one.

Well, that was a good belly laugh. Thanks.

it was -- thanks also -- you have two-5d2's and you are on this forum talking about weddings with a 7d and 40d -- now I'm ROFL

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jm67 Contributing Member • Posts: 913
Re: re-invent yourself :)

MAC wrote:

jm67 wrote:

Oh, I guess you missed the sarcasm.

Haha

Apparently you did.

You're right. My crop lineup is 7D with 40 backup. My FF lineup is two 5D2s. And I doubt I'd be doing any better by tossing it all for a 5D. You've simply mistaken my support of the 7D for a hatred of FF.

Haha again -- A pair of 5d2's hey? and you even bother to take a 7d to a wedding? better hide now--you are on the wrong forum

Why? You can't stop talking about how having a crop and a FF both at a wedding do wonders for you. Why can't I and my assistant do the same? And yes, you always have extra camera bodies, batteries, strobes and so on. I don't want to have equipment fail and ruin a Bride's day. You just keep relying on your used equipment and leave the people who can afford to fund their business to carry on.

Can't speak for Dave but it's true you keep going from issue to issue and your latest is razor thin dof. You lost out on better noise, lost out on better IQ so have resorted to razor dof. If you really did weddings for a living instead of a hobby you'd know how few times having only the Bride's eye in focus is useful.

no I didn't -- look at the noise comparison in this post:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=35026428

You don't get it and never will. I can't wait till the day your 5D dies and you start off on how your used 5D2 (when the rest of us are shooting 5D4s) is sooooo much better. I know you won't want to process large files, the newer camera shows too much detail and all the other blather you spout. If you really got paid to do what you pretend at, you'd be able to afford the gear.

That's not what you said. You told him to sell his 40D. Now who is it that can't read? And if you'd read the OP reply to me earlier, you'd have noticed that his uses for the camera don't warrant buying an old relic. His 40D serves him well and he'd get different creative shots with different lenses. Again, try reading before writing. Typical of you to take the gist of a thread and turn it all into rants and raves about crop vs FF. Try listening to a poster and offering advice for a change instead of...."you oughta sell everything and buy a 5D the rockin-ist camera ever (cause I have one)". Could you at least tell him to buy a 5D2? No, cause you don't have one.

Well, that was a good belly laugh. Thanks.

it was -- thanks also -- you have two-5d2's and you are on this forum talking about weddings with a 7d and 40d -- now I'm ROFL...

don't be jealous now...it's not a competition....

I've never ever posted in the FF forums. I haven't had much need for them and when I started adding crops to my gear I got into this one a few years back. Didn't even post much till I got a 7D and got caught up in the rumoured and finally delivered improvements. So?
And you think a 7D (with a 40D in case it err99s) doesn't belong at a wedding?

As I said, don't retire and keep your day job. Leave weddings and paying gigs to people who know the value of cameras be it FF or crop.

I think we should add each other to our ignore lists. Dave and the rest have the patience of saints. I can't imagine having been around these forums for longer than I have and shaking my head over this stuff for even longer. You're not worth the time and I'm ashamed I've wasted so much of mine on you already.

And don't quit your day job.

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,566
Re: re-invent yourself :)

jm67 wrote:
you just keep writing lots of nonsense jm67, I can't even keep up

scroll down in the below wedding forum thread and you'll see my 40d is ahead of your 7d in use in weddings

Also, my 5d is number two in weddings -- out of 44 wedding forum surveys

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/895080

now, I've only had my 5d for a short time, and it has a brand new shutter and is spot on...so also follow Joe Mana's shallow dof shots with his 5d -- you might learn something about portrait - no flash - photography -- vs your high horse - shoot 2d flat -- you claim --is good enough for you approach

http://www.pbase.com/joemama

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Nick5
Nick5 Contributing Member • Posts: 889
Re: re-invent yourself :)

Smi.
Having the 40D, I had my eye on both the 7D and the 70-200 f/2.8 L IS Mark I.

I opted to get the 7D first. The focusing system is really nice. Being able to zone in my focal points is a real plus. Also the LCD on the back has great clarity.
The hard part is picking one first. The good news is you can't go wrong.
My next investment is the 70-200 f/2.8 L IS Mark II.

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The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 18,997
True.

jm67 wrote:

MAC wrote:

re jm67 - in a prior post -- he's worried that I'll move to his town when I retire and take his game away...

Oh, I guess you missed the sarcasm. No worries around here about you stealing good paying customers. They prefer quality vs. quantity. Keep your day job whatever it is. It certainly isn't wedding photography and there are very few in this area that'll tolerate hobbyists.

He uses both 7d and 40d for weddings which is monolithic crop thinking imo - he could do better with a 40d and 5d combo imo

You're right. My crop lineup is 7D with 40 backup. My FF lineup is two 5D2s. And I doubt I'd be doing any better by tossing it all for a 5D. You've simply mistaken my support of the 7D for a hatred of FF.

re Dave - dave still shoots film and keeps saying I only have dof control on my mind -- I mentioned at least three factors above many times in prior threads -- he has consistently shown he can't read...

Can't speak for Dave but it's true you keep going from issue to issue and your latest is razor thin dof. You lost out on better noise, lost out on better IQ so have resorted to razor dof. If you really did weddings for a living instead of a hobby you'd know how few times having only the Bride's eye in focus is useful.

I think you summed it up well. The only thing the keeps coming up is this nonsense about DOF control. If he actually had some experience in this, he'd understand that even with a crop sensor camera, you can achieve a DOF that is simply too shallow. When I'm shooting with an f1.4 lens, I'm often stopping down to f1.8 or f2 because the brides don't like having their nose OOF with their eyes in focus. But yes, he's missing he better noise, better DR, more accurate 100% finder, better AF, faster handling, etc. He also can't grasp the concept of using film, nor understanding that I've owned FF digital bodies in the past, and have processed thousands of photographs from the original 5D (and Kodak 14n, 1Ds, 1Ds2, 1Ds3, Nikon D700). He's out of his league in this regard.

regarding both dave and jm67 - both say in this thread to buy glass vs the 7d...obviously they aren't that impressed with their 7d's. What I've said, is that owning a 5d and a 40d opens up more creative shooting opportunities than just one 7d. I've said that when I bought my 5d, I found it was like buying classic, expensive glass - because that is what it gives shooters who know what crop gives and know what a 5di FF gives. Neither dave nor jm67 have owned 5d1

That's not what you said. You told him to sell his 40D. Now who is it that can't read? And if you'd read the OP reply to me earlier, you'd have noticed that his uses for the camera don't warrant buying an old relic. His 40D serves him well and he'd get different creative shots with different lenses. Again, try reading before writing. Typical of you to take the gist of a thread and turn it all into rants and raves about crop vs FF. Try listening to a poster and offering advice for a change instead of...."you oughta sell everything and buy a 5D the rockin-ist camera ever (cause I have one)". Could you at least tell him to buy a 5D2? No, cause you don't have one.

Yes, it's funny how he'd provide advice to someone who takes pictures of there kids and some landscapes, and for some reason need a FF body and a 50 f1.2 lens? This fellow can't grasp the OP's need vs his own crusade for razor thin DOF.

And yes, I have a fair bit of patience. I've seen these web-expert wannabees post for years. They've photographed a couple of weddings, and come on here as an expert....when they haven't yet even been able to figure out how to light a scene without making a 40D look like a point and shoot.

I've found replying to people like that an exercise in futility....as they are so convinced they are the expert, that despite working pros trying to tell them they have a lot to learn, remain convinced of their expertise.

Well, that was a good belly laugh. Thanks.

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wskb Regular Member • Posts: 294
Re: True.

I had this choice last year and went for the 70-200 f4IS rather than upgrading to 7D. I had an old 75-300IS at that time and the difference between that and the 70-200 was outstanding. I use the 70-200 much more than I thought I would. That said, I don't shoot any sports, therefore all the AF advantages of the 7D are meaningless for me. Secretaly I'm betting that the 60D is around the corner and I'll consider that when it comes out.

My advice therefore, get the 70-200, the completely different range from what you've got at the moment will be more of an eye opener than a 7D. Which ever decision you make though, you'll probably want the other within a month!

The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 18,997
Re: True.

wskb wrote:

I had this choice last year and went for the 70-200 f4IS rather than upgrading to 7D. I had an old 75-300IS at that time and the difference between that and the 70-200 was outstanding. I use the 70-200 much more than I thought I would. That said, I don't shoot any sports, therefore all the AF advantages of the 7D are meaningless for me. Secretaly I'm betting that the 60D is around the corner and I'll consider that when it comes out.

My advice therefore, get the 70-200, the completely different range from what you've got at the moment will be more of an eye opener than a 7D. Which ever decision you make though, you'll probably want the other within a month!

The better AF is not just about speed....it provides for quicker and more accurate focus in low light. I find the 7D superb....better than my old 1Ds2!

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The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 18,997
Re: re-invent yourself :)

MAC wrote:

jm67 wrote:

you just keep writing lots of nonsense jm67, I can't even keep up

scroll down in the below wedding forum thread and you'll see my 40d is ahead of your 7d in use in weddings

Also, my 5d is number two in weddings -- out of 44 wedding forum surveys

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/895080

now, I've only had my 5d for a short time, and it has a brand new shutter and is spot on...so also follow Joe Mana's shallow dof shots with his 5d -- you might learn something about portrait - no flash - photography -- vs your high horse - shoot 2d flat -- you claim --is good enough for you approach

http://www.pbase.com/joemama

Hmmm...does Joe have any website other than a PBase slideshow? I would expect you to reference an actual wedding photographer. All I see is PBase....and his personal web site (Joseph) has little as well.

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,566
Re: re-invent yourself :)

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Hmmm...does Joe have any website other than a PBase slideshow? I would expect you to reference an actual wedding photographer. All I see is PBase....and his personal web site (Joseph) has little as well.

Joe is an artist in the lens forum for amazing shallow dof portraits. But I didn't expect you to get it. Reminds me of what my father always said, don't cast stones at your own glass house.

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,566
Re: True.

Dave Luttmann wrote:

"He also can't grasp the concept of using film, nor understanding that I've owned FF digital bodies in the past, and have processed thousands of photographs from the original 5D (and Kodak 14n, 1Ds, 1Ds2, 1Ds3, Nikon D700). He's out of his league in this regard."

we know you have trouble with digital dave and have stepped back to the past with your film camera

we also know your website has some blurry stuff - hard to understand.

I've shown multiple reasons for using a 5d over a 7d - not just more control over dof --you just can't read.

I've shown the 5d has less noise at iso 3200 than the 7d - you just can't see.

And I've shown that wedding shooters choose to use the 5dii - as their #1 choice and the 5d as their #2 choice in dozens of cameras surveyed - imagine that!

Well - since you can't read dave-- look at the picture and suggest you get off your "low" film horse

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The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 18,997
Re: re-invent yourself :)

MAC wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Hmmm...does Joe have any website other than a PBase slideshow? I would expect you to reference an actual wedding photographer. All I see is PBase....and his personal web site (Joseph) has little as well.

Joe is an artist in the lens forum for amazing shallow dof portraits. But I didn't expect you to get it. Reminds me of what my father always said, don't cast stones at your own glass house.

Nothing amazing there that I don't see from every portrait shooter with the lens open.

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,566
Re: re-invent yourself :)

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Nothing amazing there that I don't see from every portrait shooter with the lens open.

most of us need to rebuild our galleries...

I'm in the process of rebuilding mine;

ninth shot in gallery - 5d - 50mm @ f1.4; more on the way this year

http://www.digi-pictures.com/slideshow1/index.htm

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noisejammer New Member • Posts: 15
Re: Upgrading 40D to 7D???

I'm lucky enough to have a 40D, 7D and 70-200 f/2.8L Mk2 and the 1.4 Mk2 extender.

The 70-200 is spectacular. Even when it is wide open, mine out-resolves the 40D sensor at all focal lengths. That suggests I'm going to have the lens for a very long time. Adding the extender increases the image scale but degrades the image quality very slightly. I don't expect the lens to be improved on for a long time, so it isn't going to get less expensive.

On the other hand, the 7D will be approaching the end of it's life cycle in a year or so. If things go the way they have, the 7D will then cost less than $1k.

This is ok because if you get the 70-200 lens first, by the time the limitations of the 40D begin to irk you, you can buy the 7D and get a camera / lens / extender combination that will probably satisfy every reasonable telephoto requirement for a very long time. (35 mm equivalents of 112 - 320 f/2.8 and 157 - 448 f/4 with resolution of less than two pixels.)

If you do go that route, I recommend adding the battery grip for the 7D - it makes holding and operating the camera in protrait mode a whole lot easier - particularly with a heavy lens attached.

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OP smi Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: Upgrading 40D to 7D???

Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond to my enquiry. Having read all the views expressed, along with other information from other threads, I have decided that my first purchase will be good glass (70-200 2.8). This option will certainly satisfy me needs for the near future, until our baby grown ups a little. Then the need for video will probably make me upgrade to the latest model at the time.

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