the power of HHT

Started Mar 24, 2010 | Discussions
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chupame Regular Member • Posts: 453
the power of HHT

2 shots taken when the street lights came on
both fresh from the camera just loss less cropped
both ISO 3200

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cboy7 Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: the power of HHT

oh wow. I have only tried the HHT inside my house, but this! wow thats amazing.

I also set it on a tripod and it instantly recognizes that its on a tripod, and puts in in tripod mode.

great post

chupame OP Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: the power of HHT

see my hx1 blog 4 more about hht
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http://hx5v.blogspot.com/

Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

I think a good part of the reason the 2nd is better is that the exposure is a little higher. I have noticed a little higher exposure can be quite helpful at high iso especially in white-gray-black areas.

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Compact Fan Forum Member • Posts: 74
Re: the power of HHT

The HHT picture is also a lot sharper in the white background and the greenery. And it shows much less noise on the bonnet. All in all a great improvement.

FWIW I've just done a 30 second wide angle picture on a tripod (iso 125) in nightly city 'darkness'. The HX5V does a second 30 sec exposure with shutter closed for dark frame noise reduction. It works well.

To indicate this, 'NR' appears next to the shutter speed from 1/3rd second up. The result is a nice speckle-free image.

cboy7 Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: the power of HHT

Compact Fan wrote:

The HHT picture is also a lot sharper in the white background and the greenery. And it shows much less noise on the bonnet. All in all a great improvement.

FWIW I've just done a 30 second wide angle picture on a tripod (iso 125) in nightly city 'darkness'. The HX5V does a second 30 sec exposure with shutter closed for dark frame noise reduction. It works well.

To indicate this, 'NR' appears next to the shutter speed from 1/3rd second up. The result is a nice speckle-free image.

can you tell me what setting this in under?

CSZ_Fan Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: the power of HHT

Swingline wrote:

I think a good part of the reason the 2nd is better is that the exposure is a little higher. I have noticed a little higher exposure can be quite helpful at high iso especially in white-gray-black areas.

What do you mean "the exposure is a little higher" ?

The picture specs read identical; no difference in shutter speed, aperture, ISO or EV.

Please explain (to a noob) . . .

Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

I meant the brightness. The white is no longer grayish. If you have a camera that takes raw pictures, you can increase the brightness in the raw processor which has more latitude than the jpeg processing. The iso f-stop and shutter speed will still be reported the same thing. Maybe that is what is happening. Maybe some of the six pictures were taken at 1/10th of a second but they always write 1/8s to the jpeg file. They talk about a Bionz processor but they don't say what it does.

At high iso you have less dynamic range to work with so it's critical to get the important parts out of the shadow and hide the noise in the shadows. In a museum, I will sometimes set the exposure compensation to plus 2/3's especially if I am shooting something white which sometimes fools the camera into underexposing.

It's hard to come up with a valid test to show that HHT is really working. I am not sure I have seen one yet in all the reviews.

 Swingline's gear list:Swingline's gear list
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chupame OP Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: the power of HHT

to see the original, you need to go into my gallery and choose original size, just a double click does not show you the original here in the forum.
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http://hx5v.blogspot.com/

Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

Thanks I did. I can see the one with HHT is much brighter and appears to be focused on the wall. I am not sure it acheived focus on the other one. Anyhow, I would love to see some more with and without HHT shots at different light levels. I would be more interested to see what it can do from iso 400-1000 rather than iso 3200.

Dpreview has a HHT shot in their WX1 review and image-resource has a picture of Dave's Box with and without HHT. If you get a chance to look at them we could talk about it.

 Swingline's gear list:Swingline's gear list
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chupame OP Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: the power of HHT

here is a small crop so it will not be resized in the viewer
(this is the original image)

and remember high ISO shot in bright light looks much better than shot in dark conditions

these shots are under a carport in the beginning of the night when the street light are already on but there is still enough brightness left to see the colors

Hand Held Twilight does its magic with stacking 6 of the shots above

and this is after hitting it quick and dirty (no noise profile) with noise ninja just a little bit to preserve most of the detail

and now lets look at the picture 50% resized

not bad but still a bit washed out

so lets go to faststone viewer and add saturation+15 contrast+15 and sharpness +6 (more brings out the noise again too much)

yes the side is the original color, the front plate should be the same color, but too much was lost because of the angle.
and since we had so much fun, here the same procedure with the original crop

Now you know why HHT has it´s own position on the dial

the next step for SONY is include this mode into the smart scene recognition plus

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Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

You did excellent work with the HHT version. I am just not sure that a) the data fed to the camera was the same in both shots or b) it was the same but the normal non-HHT processing didn't make it worse. Dpreview often points out in dslr reviews that a camera might have a bad jpg processor but the raw file can be processed to make a better jpeg e.g, the Sony A550 review.

At any rate, I try not take too many pictures that require more than iso 800 with my compact cameras. So, I am wondering what can HHT do for me under more typical conditions (iso 400-1000).

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Bob the Printer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,034
Re: the power of HHT

Swingline wrote:

It's hard to come up with a valid test to show that HHT is really working. I am not sure I have seen one yet in all the reviews.

You must be blind then...
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Have a SAFE and HAPPY 2010 !

Bob the Printer

Compact Fan Forum Member • Posts: 74
Re: the power of HHT

cboy7,

If you set the HX5V to the M position on the dial, and use it on a tripod, it allows very long exposures (up to 30 seconds).

When the exposure time is above a certan level, the dark frame subtraction kicks in. I'm very pleased with the result. But is is not a hand held mode.

As for the HHT mode the result is definitely there. City night pictures just work and look fine.

To be specific: Tripod with low ISO is best quality, then comes HHT, then AMB, then P with high ISO, and worst quality are my previous cameras (with the F2.0 Casio QV3000 a lot better than the Ricoh R5).

Obviously each mode has its uses.

Sometimes I like to overexpose night pictures for that fairy tale look. Buildings and trees well exposed, light from the windows blown out. I use up to EV+2 for that.

Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

The question I am asking is if HHT is only for extreme conditions or can it help when a normal picture is, say at iso 800. Can it make it look as good as if you had a faster lens and it could take it iso 400 or 320? I am not arguing that it does nothing. I am trying to find out whether iit's for emergency only or would someone find use more regulary.

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chupame OP Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: the power of HHT

Swingline wrote:

...I am trying to find out whether iit's for emergency only or would someone find use more regulary.

take a look at my hx1 blog on the right column you see:
Pictures:
JOGY´S PixelGallery
gorgeous pictures and good comparison

you see hht compared at all iso steps
and his answer to your question:
Pro:

Die Fotoqualität gegenüber den normalen Einstellungen verbessert sich teilweise erheblich. Das Rauschen wird deutlich reduziert.

Bei kurzen Belichtungszeiten sind sogar Fotos von sich bewegenden Motiven möglich.

in engilsh: yepp it works very well in all iso steps and makes the picture look much better

use googel translator if you you do not understand German

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Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

Thank you. He has some excellent architecturral and macro pictures on pbase. Right now I am going through his Sony HX1 und Panasonic TZ7 ( ZS3 ) im ISO-Vergleich in which he goes through the iso's in groups of 3, TZ7, HHT and no-HHT (w HX1). Each of the 3 has a different white balance and contrast.

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +10 more
Swingline Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: the power of HHT

Forget about the last one. The one you quoted must be this 100% crop series with normal, hht and anti motion blur. 100% images available. Great stuff!!

 Swingline's gear list:Swingline's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +10 more
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