Canon X1 Rumor

Started Jan 25, 2010 | Discussions
Kandinsky Regular Member • Posts: 100
Canon X1 Rumor

Apparently Canon will unveil soon an EVIL system smaller than m4/3.

It'll be based on the APS-C sensor, apparently same sensor as the 7D, but with a reduced Image Circle, 18mm.
3 New lenses. Zoom Kit EF-X 12-36mm, 36-166mm and 15mm f2.4 Pancake.
There will be an adapter to use EF and EF-S lenses.
720p 30fps video.
Articulated LCD

I don't have reliable sources so take it for what it is, a Rumor.

I got this from another forum.

samuel49 Regular Member • Posts: 343
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

I don't see how it could possibly handle what you list above if it's smaller than a m4/3. Rumors, rumors, rumors abound everywhere.

dwalby Veteran Member • Posts: 5,895
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

Not sure what you're trying to say here, an APS-C sensor uses an image circle of about 27mm, so why would they use that same sensor with an 18mm image circle?

Or would they use a smaller sensor that is based on the 7D sensor pixel design?? That approach would seem more logical.

Kandinsky wrote:

It'll be based on the APS-C sensor, apparently same sensor as the 7D, but with a reduced Image Circle, 18mm.

Photato
Photato Senior Member • Posts: 2,704
Pretty clever

samuel49 wrote:

I don't see how it could possibly handle what you list above if it's smaller than a m4/3. Rumors, rumors, rumors abound everywhere.

Why not ?
I think is a clever concept.

They reuse their APS-C sensors (economy of scale) and it maintains compatibility with all their lenses keeping their user base.

The user gets the convenience to choose quality or portability with just one camera.

This could be a m4/3 killer if is true.

BTW there are rumors about a Nikon Evil using 17mm sensor.

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ultimitsu
ultimitsu Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
Re: Pretty clever

i dont think it is likely, it would mean this camera is roughly 8mp, way too low to get any realistic market (not that i would personally object).

Photato
Photato Senior Member • Posts: 2,704
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

dwalby wrote:

Not sure what you're trying to say here, an APS-C sensor uses an image circle of about 27mm, so why would they use that same sensor with an 18mm image circle?

SIZE , COST and the option of IQ and DOF

Or would they use a smaller sensor that is based on the 7D sensor pixel design?? That approach would seem more logical.

No the whole idea as I understand it, is that you can use the full APS-C sensor when you plug EF or EF-S lenses and part of it at different aspect ratios when you need portability using the smaller, lighter and more affordable EF-X lenses.

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ultimitsu
ultimitsu Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
Re: Pretty clever

DOF is partly affected by the image circle, if the image circle is smaller, than DOF is larger.

wolfpuppies3 Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
I hate to fuel the fire but

I am very interested in the concept and feel certain that both Nikon and Canon are speeding toward this finish line.

If one is able to believe anything at all on the internet, the projected date of Canon's announcement is February 9, 2010 so there may be more info then about

Specs

  • Articulating screen

  • Metal body, but smaller than 50D

  • Upgraded 15.1mp APS-C Sensor

  • 720p Video at 30fps

  • Electronic Level

  • New battery & battery grip

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OP Kandinsky Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: Pretty clever

ultimitsu wrote:

i dont think it is likely, it would mean this camera is roughly 8mp, way too low to get any realistic market (not that i would personally object).

Yep, only 8MP at 3:2 crop, but you get the option to capture the full IC with the smaller lenses including 3:2 Portrait mode.
when you need the full 18MP just use EF or EF-S lenses.

Oh and in the future I'm sure Canon will increase the APS-C density.

Canon could also make dedicated smaller sensors 18mm in diagonal, once the market reach certain volume for the entry level models.

The end user gets both quality and portability when they needed.

OP Kandinsky Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

Photato wrote:

dwalby wrote:

Not sure what you're trying to say here, an APS-C sensor uses an image circle of about 27mm, so why would they use that same sensor with an 18mm image circle?

SIZE , COST and the option of IQ and DOF

Exactly.

Lets hope this is true.
We'll know in a few weeks.

OP Kandinsky Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: I hate to fuel the fire but

wolfpuppies3 wrote:

I am very interested in the concept and feel certain that both Nikon and Canon are speeding toward this finish line.

If one is able to believe anything at all on the internet, the projected date of Canon's announcement is February 9, 2010 so there may be more info then about

Specs

  • Articulating screen

  • Metal body, but smaller than 50D

  • Upgraded 15.1mp APS-C Sensor

  • 720p Video at 30fps

  • Electronic Level

  • New battery & battery grip

I think that is the 60D rumor, not the new EVIL, I hope..........

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 55,613
I don't see the point of these, unless....

Unless one of two things happens:

  • One or more lens options allows the camera/lens combo to be completely flat when in the off state.

or

  • The body+kit lens is significantly cheaper than a Rebel+kit lens (currently $500).

If the first isn't the case, it's not significantly more portable than a Rebel, so what's the point? If the second isn't the case, it's not going to sell on cost versus a Rebel, so what's the point?

Like I said, I don't see the point of these.

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OhioBowhunter Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

Kandinsky wrote:

I got this from another forum.

IMHO...this is a shame. That Dpreview has to block the url to cameralabs is a shame. Anyone/forum that uses a business practice of censorship to maintain their constituency, will surely end up on the short side of the stick.

Funny thing is...until I decided to reply to this thread, I had no idea who the url belonged to and why it was blocked. What I do know is I will now take a visit on over to cameralabs...must be pretty good if they got blocked.

FYI...I have no more of an interest in cameralabs then I do DPreview, nor do I have any association with or financial gain from. I do have an interest in the free flow of information, Dpreview apparently does not. Yes, I know this is a private forum and they can do what they want, just like China.

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 55,613
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

OhioBowhunter wrote:

Kandinsky wrote:

I got this from another forum.

IMHO...this is a shame. That Dpreview has to block the url to cameralabs is a shame. Anyone/forum that uses a business practice of censorship to maintain their constituency, will surely end up on the short side of the stick.

It's likely blocked due to spam or other unsavory behavior in the past, not due to competitive reasons.

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dwalby Veteran Member • Posts: 5,895
size, cost comment

If this camera were to have a full APS-C sensor with EF/EF-S/EF-X lens mount, but in a body even smaller than the Rebel series, seems like the cost would be at least as high as the Rebel series, plus the additional cost of the 7D sensor. With the physical geometry of the EF/EF-S lens mount not sure how much they would be able to shrink it anyway, not to mention the ergonomics of handling a larger lens with a small body attached.

If it were a smaller sensor, smaller lens only offering, then this could potentially fill a gap between DSLR and P&S like 4/3. But this do-it-all format doesn't sound to me like it could be significantly cheaper or smaller than the Rebel form factor, but what do I know.

Photato wrote:

dwalby wrote:

Not sure what you're trying to say here, an APS-C sensor uses an image circle of about 27mm, so why would they use that same sensor with an 18mm image circle?

SIZE , COST and the option of IQ and DOF

Or would they use a smaller sensor that is based on the 7D sensor pixel design?? That approach would seem more logical.

No the whole idea as I understand it, is that you can use the full APS-C sensor when you plug EF or EF-S lenses and part of it at different aspect ratios when you need portability using the smaller, lighter and more affordable EF-X lenses.

sorinx Contributing Member • Posts: 707
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

Photato wrote:

dwalby wrote:

Not sure what you're trying to say here, an APS-C sensor uses an image circle of about 27mm, so why would they use that same sensor with an 18mm image circle?

SIZE , COST and the option of IQ and DOF

Can you explain DOF?

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 55,613
Re: Canon X1 Rumor

sorinx wrote:

Photato wrote:

dwalby wrote:

Not sure what you're trying to say here, an APS-C sensor uses an image circle of about 27mm, so why would they use that same sensor with an 18mm image circle?

SIZE , COST and the option of IQ and DOF

Can you explain DOF?

Depth of Field. How much of your scene, near-to-far, is in-focus.

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Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 55,613
Re: size, cost comment

dwalby wrote:

If this camera were to have a full APS-C sensor with EF/EF-S/EF-X lens mount, but in a body even smaller than the Rebel series, seems like the cost would be at least as high as the Rebel series, plus the additional cost of the 7D sensor.

Just like the G1.

With the physical geometry of the EF/EF-S lens mount not sure how much they would be able to shrink it anyway, not to mention the ergonomics of handling a larger lens with a small body attached.

Yep...same problem as with 4/3.

If it were a smaller sensor, smaller lens only offering, then this could potentially fill a gap between DSLR and P&S like 4/3.

Which doesn't do that at all, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

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Lee Jay
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rennie12 Senior Member • Posts: 2,844
Canon has a history of using a cut-down sensor ->

My first digital camera was the Canon Pro90 IS - a genuinely remarkable tank-like long zoom digicam. It was 2.6 megapixels but a masked larger sensor. This gave it larger pixels and the resulting image would go comfortably to 13x19.

Using only a portion of a larger sensor has this same effect - larger pixel size and therefor the advantages of this.

I sure hope they do this. I would like to go back to Canon. But they are simply too much money for what you get compared to my present DSLR - Pentax.
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Photato
Photato Senior Member • Posts: 2,704
Re: I don't see the point....HELLO ?!?

ljfinger wrote:

Unless one of two things happens:

  • One or more lens options allows the camera/lens combo to be completely flat when in the off state.

Isn't this a dramatic reduction in size for you ?

or

  • The body+kit lens is significantly cheaper than a Rebel+kit lens (currently $500).

If the first isn't the case, it's not significantly more portable than a Rebel, so what's the point? If the second isn't the case, it's not going to sell on cost versus a Rebel, so what's the point?

In theory it has to be cheaper if built at the same quantities than the Rebel. For sure getting rid of the MirrorBox/OVF/AF sensor assembly which is precision instrument and also adds bulk will have to reflect in cost savings.

Also shed 30% of the raw material needed to make lenses for a reduced Image Circle and we are talking savings here.

To save even more cost, Canon can make smaller sensors for the entry models to fit just a 3:2 sensor inscribed in the IC (18mm Diagonal).

Like I said, I don't see the point of these.

I see it. The point is FLEXIBILITY.
That you can use this camera for serious work or just leisure shots.
It can be small or it can be big.

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