those 128 GB cards

Started Jan 19, 2010 | Discussions
G10Rebel
G10Rebel Contributing Member • Posts: 788
Re: Flash Based Storage Has Expire Date

T3 wrote:

I have very old CF cards that I bought back when I got my first DSLR, the Canon 10D. They still work fine after all these years. I think the "expire date" is way overblown. Most commercially available flash products are guaranteed to withstand around 100,000 write-erase cycles before the integrity of the storage starts to deteriorate or wear out. That's plenty. By then, you should have easily gotten your money's worth out of it, if you ever hit that "wear out" point at all.

I was giving a heads-up for people thinking that a CF card can be used to immortalize their memories. I myself prefer a spinning harddisk that has more GB/price than flash disk due to that flash-decay problem. But hard-disk need to be periodically put into motion to avoid its reader-needle sticking into the platter.

Some prefer optical discs, but those discs are prone to become obsolete once:

a. they are scratched
b. their materials are decayed during storage

c. no readers are available for them, same thing can happen to flash-based storage. As for hard-disk, cables and softwares can be designed to read an ancient hard-disk, provided the hard-disk never goes idle for long time. With the robustness of USB interface and the ubiquity of USB based HD encasement, hard-disk can go on forever if one is careful and engineers keep on supporting HD.
--
http://hdr.strivearth.com | canon fodder

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,546
Re: Flash Based Storage Has Expire Date

G10Rebel wrote:

T3 wrote:

I have very old CF cards that I bought back when I got my first DSLR, the Canon 10D. They still work fine after all these years. I think the "expire date" is way overblown. Most commercially available flash products are guaranteed to withstand around 100,000 write-erase cycles before the integrity of the storage starts to deteriorate or wear out. That's plenty. By then, you should have easily gotten your money's worth out of it, if you ever hit that "wear out" point at all.

I was giving a heads-up for people thinking that a CF card can be used to immortalize their memories. I myself prefer a spinning harddisk that has more GB/price than flash disk due to that flash-decay problem. But hard-disk need to be periodically put into motion to avoid its reader-needle sticking into the platter.

I think the whole notion of one storage device on which to "immortalize" your memories is itself outdated. The beauty of digital data is that it is infinitely transferable. And storage devices are constantly evolving. I have images stored on old 100GB hdds (100GB used to be a lot of storage) that I have since consolidated onto 1 terabyte hdds. And in a few years, there will be newer storage devices yet to be known, so I'll probably transfer the data on my 1 terabyte drives onto crystal cube drives that will probably store multi-terabytes of data in something no larger than a small box of wooden matches! My point is, move the data onto newer devices every few years. Don't just keep it on some old device that you're hoping will last through the ages. Move your data!

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Charlie Self Veteran Member • Posts: 3,924
Re: those 128 GB cards

OSAM wrote:

I'd never use a 128gb card and, frankly, find that size absolutely useless. It's ridiculous to have so much space: hell it's more than any of my computers before this one has had.

Uh, OK. Let's go back the hard drive my first computer had...oh, oops! 170K floppy, and no HD. We should have stopped then, especially with the 64KB RAM. Then again, my first hard drive was, IIRC, 20MB. I'm currently bouncing around the whys and wherefores of 1, 1.5 and 2TB drives for my next computer. The one I'm using came with a 120GB drive, and now has a 400GB and a 160GB.

I've heard of people buying the 64gb cards as "backup" in case their computers die or their harddrives take the plunge. I hardly think that Flash memory, as good as it is, is reliable enough for such sizes.

Hell, I have trouble with 4GB at a time.

Don't ever shoot video if you think 128GB is too large.

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Lupti
Lupti Senior Member • Posts: 1,577
Re: Flash Based Storage Has Expire Date

c. no readers are available for them, same thing can happen to flash-based storage.

Come on, not again this old argument that one day there will be no reader for old devices. Most card readers still have slots for card types that are rarely used for years, e.g. SmartMedia, xD and so on. Even old 3,5" discettes are still readable by most computers. All these predictions "in some years media type X will not readable anymore because there are no devices" are nothing more than speculations. As every new media type is spread widely I doubt that you cannot read e.g. CF cards in 15 years.

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You made a picture...fine!

Lupti
Lupti Senior Member • Posts: 1,577
Re: Flash Based Storage Has Expire Date

T3 wrote:

I have very old CF cards that I bought back when I got my first DSLR, the Canon 10D. They still work fine after all these years. I think the "expire date" is way overblown.

I don´t think that there is something like an "expire date" but I doubt that you still have the first images taken with your 10D on the cards. However, flash memory needs elictricity, so it can be that an old flash card which hasn´t been used for 10 years might still work but the data on it has lost because it had no elictricity over the time. So flash memory isn´t so good for storing images over a long time.

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You made a picture...fine!

Diversants Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: those 128 GB cards - i'd like to have one

I agree also that it would be great to have such card in order not to swap them, making backups everyday of course.

Another thing is that I have found out that even 16GB card can actually be a small one - if you are shooting Sony A900 (or D3x or 1DsMkIII or 5DMkII for that matter) RAW+JPG. This combination uses about 40-45MB per picture which means that it makes 400 pictures at most. And I have run into situation when this is not enough for even 1 day outing in some exotic situations, especially when you play with bracketing (for HDR or whatever) etc. There are also times when you just do not have time to review all pictures spot on or the time you swap cards means missed photos.

So - just bring them on but please - make prices reasonable.

Scales USA Veteran Member • Posts: 3,121
Re: those 128 GB cards

bill hansen wrote:

Does anyone have an idea when those 128 GB CF cxards will be available? They sound like the answer to a couple of different problems - extensive video, storage for large volumes of still shots when traveling, possibly even archival storage of images (more reliable than spinning HDs, less expensive than SSDs??)

Bill

I'd be sure to back it up. I have had a CF Card fail and kill two DSLR's before we realized what the problem was. You can't recover images if the card destroys the equipment when it is inserted and powered up.

Other than that, 1 large card is a good idea. Juggleing several smaller cards is a book keeping nightmare, and many photographers have in advertently formatted the wrong card and lost valuable images.

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Charlie Self Veteran Member • Posts: 3,924
Re: those 128 GB cards - i'd like to have one

Diversants wrote:

I agree also that it would be great to have such card in order not to swap them, making backups everyday of course.

Another thing is that I have found out that even 16GB card can actually be a small one - if you are shooting Sony A900 (or D3x or 1DsMkIII or 5DMkII for that matter) RAW+JPG. This combination uses about 40-45MB per picture which means that it makes 400 pictures at most. And I have run into situation when this is not enough for even 1 day outing in some exotic situations, especially when you play with bracketing (for HDR or whatever) etc. There are also times when you just do not have time to review all pictures spot on or the time you swap cards means missed photos.

So - just bring them on but please - make prices reasonable.

Cover a motor race and watch 400 frames disappear in a rush. With a 14.6MP camera, I carry two 16GB and three to five 8GB cards. I'm in no danger of running out, but I'm a nervous type. I figure that as soona I get down to maybe five frames left, there will be a 50 frame sequence that's a real moneymaker.

Yeah, well, as with all flash memory, the prices will start in the stratosphere, but eventually drop to ridiculously low.

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OP bill hansen Forum Pro • Posts: 10,022
Re: those 128 GB cards

Scales wrote -

many photographers have in advertently formatted the wrong card and lost valuable images.

I did just that, a few weeks ago. Fortunately, I was able to recover all the images by using a data recovery tool I found through a search of these forums. I was lucky that I caught my mistake before I shot more than a few "new" images after my careless mistake.

I've read about sudden failures of CF and SD cards which lose all data, but that must be very rare. Most of us check the images on the card periodically, even during the same say's shooting, and that has to help. I agree that it would be foolhardy to go on a vacation or other shoot with only one memory card, but very few of us who would buy a huge 128 GB card have no other cards to begin with.

Bill

bionet Senior Member • Posts: 1,133
but FAT is not reliable

T3 wrote:

When you think about it, all of us walking around with laptops with spinning internal > hard drives are actually walking around with "all our eggs in one basket" with a > much more vulnerable technology (a spinning hard drive), but we all seem to get
by with it just fine.

What you are missing is that FAT is quite unreliable compared to proper filesystems like NTFS or Linux ext2/3. I've had corrupted filesystems on large cards several times after a lot of deletions between shots (Linux kernel log: "access beyond end of device").

I really wished manufacturers would use ext2 but since Windows intentionally has no support for it, that's not going to happen.

MWP Regular Member • Posts: 291
Re: but FAT is not reliable

ext2 is no more reliable than FAT32.
Neither have support for journals.
ext3 however is more reliable since it does use journals.

Anyway, youll find exFAT will start being used for mobile devices.
exFAT supports journals and is also optimised for use with flash cards.

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Mark Williams (Adelaide, South Australia)
Canon 40D + Canon 24-105L IS + Sigma 10-20 + Sigma 100-300 F4 EX + Sigma 1.4x TC

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,546
Re: those 128 GB cards

Scales USA wrote:

I'd be sure to back it up. I have had a CF Card fail and kill two DSLR's before we realized what the problem was. You can't recover images if the card destroys the equipment when it is inserted and powered up.

I'd love to know how a CF card failure could resulting in it killing two DSLRs. Is it like what they did in the movie "Independence Day" where Jeff Goldblum downloads a computer virus from his laptop to the alien mothership, causing it to blow up? (Boy, was that a ridiculous plot!) Did the CF card failure somehow download a deadly virus to both DSLRs, causing them to die?

Omany photographers have in advertently formatted the wrong card and lost valuable images.

I guess these "many photographers" never heard of photo recovery softwares that are widely available and effectively recover images off of formatted media cards. I remember attending a photo seminar a few years ago where the speaker demonstrated one photo recovery software by deleting all the images on a card, then formatting the card several times, and the recovery software was able to recover every image. I myself have used such softwares to recover deleted images off of a couple of my cards. As long as you haven't over-written the images by shooting over them, you can quite easily recover deleted or formatted cards.

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bionet Senior Member • Posts: 1,133
ext2 is much more reliable

MWP wrote:

ext2 is no more reliable than FAT32.
Neither have support for journals.

Sure it is.

How long have you used these file systems? I've used FAT since 1992 & ext2 since late 1997, and the worst I ever experienced with ext2 was the loss of 1 or 2 files (crash during write / partition table update). Even serious damage can usually be repaired.

With FAT on the other hand I've had completely destroyed file systems several times and lost or truncated files so often I can't count it anymore. Or nice effects like infinitely nested directories where deleting one file deletes your whole data. How prone FAT is to this especially stuck out in the DOS days where crashes were common.

Ext2 continuously uses re-organizing/cleanup procedures to reduce fragmentation which also reduces risk in case of crash. This had a huge impact on speed on old systems, same for NTFS.

Scales USA Veteran Member • Posts: 3,121
Re: Flash Based Storage Has Expire Date

G10Rebel wrote:

T3 wrote:

I have very old CF cards that I bought back when I got my first DSLR, the Canon 10D. They still work fine after all these years. I think the "expire date" is way overblown. Most commercially available flash products are guaranteed to withstand around 100,000 write-erase cycles before the integrity of the storage starts to deteriorate or wear out. That's plenty. By then, you should have easily gotten your money's worth out of it, if you ever hit that "wear out" point at all.

I was giving a heads-up for people thinking that a CF card can be used to immortalize their memories. I myself prefer a spinning harddisk that has more GB/price than flash disk due to that flash-decay problem. But hard-disk need to be periodically put into motion to avoid its reader-needle sticking into the platter.

Some prefer optical discs, but those discs are prone to become obsolete once:

a. they are scratched
b. their materials are decayed during storage

c. no readers are available for them, same thing can happen to flash-based storage. As for hard-disk, cables and softwares can be designed to read an ancient hard-disk, provided the hard-disk never goes idle for long time. With the robustness of USB interface and the ubiquity of USB based HD encasement, hard-disk can go on forever if one is careful and engineers keep on supporting HD.
--
http://hdr.strivearth.com | canon fodder

I think I still have the 32 mb hard drive from my first PC. It was a RLL drive. Do you really think it will work with modern PC's? No, its a long dead technology that required a special controller. Hard drives also change over time and data must be transferred.

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Fujifilm MX-700 Canon G1 X II Canon EOS R
WilsonEPhillips Senior Member • Posts: 1,317
Re: those 128 GB cards

OSAM wrote:

I'd never use a 128gb card and, frankly, find that size absolutely useless. It's ridiculous to have so much space: hell it's more than any of my computers before this one has had.

My friends said that about my 110 MB hard drive way back when.

Right now, I am sitting here looking at 8 TB of space on my home network and wondering how I can afford to increase it. I could easily fill 100 TB of disk space with video, if I could afford it.

128 GB cards? Still not big enough. 1 TB cards? Bring them on, because there are 50 megapixel cameras out there right now and DSLRs and Camcorders shooting HD video and it is not going to stop. The need for storage space is increasing exponentially. They are not keeping up as well as they should be.

I've heard of people buying the 64gb cards as "backup" in case their computers die or their harddrives take the plunge. I hardly think that Flash memory, as good as it is, is reliable enough for such sizes.

Nothing is truly reliable, so we need redundancy, which in turn requires more space. It's a vicious cycle.

Hell, I have trouble with 4GB at a time.

At least these little cards are a lot easier to lug around than 3.5" hard drives.

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