F70EXR or F200EXR

Started Dec 14, 2009 | Discussions
tripsoright New Member • Posts: 2
F70EXR or F200EXR

Hello,

First off, sorry in advance for my lack of knowledge about camera & photography..

I am looking for a new digital camera, right now I have a Canon SD700... I think there is something wrong with the lens, I am not too savvy with cameras but I just can't take a clear picture anymore with it.. I took it to the museum last week sometime and it was disappointing not to be able to get any clear shots. Anyway...

I am looking for a compact p&s that takes good photos but also can take decent low-light photos. I know that p&s can't really take superior low-light photos but I am only looking for decent photos out of the low-light situations.. I have came to the decision to look at the F70 or the F200.. I have read that the F200 does overall take a better picture.. but what I am really looking for is which one takes the better photo in low-light?

I am definitely not a photographer, and I am definitely not going to take the time out to pixel-peep.. I will though print pictures at maybe 8x10 max..

Which camera is the better deal? Also, can anyone show any pictures of either camera in a low-light? Also... I want to start learning how to PP... is there also one that would do better in this?

Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,444
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

tripsoright wrote:

I am looking for a compact p&s that takes good photos but also can take decent low-light photos. I know that p&s can't really take superior low-light photos but I am only looking for decent photos out of the low-light situations.. I have came to the decision to look at the F70 or the F200.. I have read that the F200 does overall take a better picture.. but what I am really looking for is which one takes the better photo in low-light?

The difference is fairly minor at high ISO ... and for museums etc, the F70 has pro low light mode, which takes for images and blends them for super low noise with decent shutter speeds. Coupled with the stabilization, you can get some great shots once you know how to use it.

I am definitely not a photographer, and I am definitely not going to take the time out to pixel-peep.. I will though print pictures at maybe 8x10 max..

The two cams shoot at 6mp and 5mp in their best modes and this is more than enough for 8x10 ...

Which camera is the better deal?

The F70, by far. More reach, more features, better video, cheaper price.

Also, can anyone show any pictures of either camera in a low-light? Also... I want to start learning how to PP... is there also one that would do better in this?

High ISO (many at 1600) images from the F70EXR ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/crombie-mcneill-workshop-and-ashley.html

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OP tripsoright New Member • Posts: 2
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

High ISO (many at 1600) images from the F70EXR ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/crombie-mcneill-workshop-and-ashley.html

were those portrait shots taken with the fuji... if they were.. wow, that looks pretty good

Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,444
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

tripsoright wrote:

High ISO (many at 1600) images from the F70EXR ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/crombie-mcneill-workshop-and-ashley.html

were those portrait shots taken with the fuji... if they were.. wow, that looks pretty good

Yes, the entire blog post is only F70EXR images .... almost all at 1600 ISO ... the portraits for sure ...

Note ... click on each image to see the larger version. That version has EXIF intact ... use OPANDA or equivalent to inspect settings ...

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Lloydy
Lloydy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,595
Tripsoright ...

... Either would be good for your needs.

The F70 EXR has more zoom than the F200 EXR.

I have the F200 EXR and I am delighted with it.

Some sample images in the links below :

Straight from camera.

http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_18_4.htm

Mild PP.

http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_18_1.htm

Good luck in your decision making.

Cheers.
--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.

My Site - http://www.pixplanet.biz
My RedBubble Site - http://www.redbubble.com/people/pixplanet

Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

tripsoright wrote:

. . .

I am looking for a compact p&s that takes good photos but also can take decent low-light photos. I know that p&s can't really take superior low-light photos but I am only looking for decent photos out of the low-light situations.. I have came to the decision to look at the F70 or the F200.. I have read that the F200 does overall take a better picture.. but what I am really looking for is which one takes the better photo in low-light?
. . .

Which camera is the better deal? Also, can anyone show any pictures of either camera in a low-light? Also... I want to start learning how to PP... is there also one that would do better in this?

I've compared Canon's G11 with the F70EXR and the G11 is significantly better in very low light. When the light is so dim that even though you can see the subject (in both cameras) in their LCD displays, when the cameras are prefocused by half-pressing the shutter, the F70's display becomes so dark that nothing can be seen other than perhaps a few small points of the lightest areas, and sometimes not even that. The final results are also much sharper with the G11, and it's not because the F70 had trouble focusing accurately in very low light. I used no AF assist lights and found that if I used the flash, the F70's shots were much sharper, so the F70's problem is probably that when not using a flash, at the slow shutter speeds that are needed the G11's IS provides better stabilization.

In addition, the testing I did was only with JPEG. Unlike the Fujis, the G11 can shoot RAW which can provide even better results in low light. With its wider maximum aperture Canon's smaller S90 might be even a bit better in low light than the G11. The only problem with these two Canons is that they're much more expensive than the F70EXR and F200EXR - about twice the price.

NIK11 Senior Member • Posts: 2,827
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

Billx08 wrote:

tripsoright wrote:

. . .

I am looking for a compact p&s that takes good photos but also can take decent low-light photos. I know that p&s can't really take superior low-light photos but I am only looking for decent photos out of the low-light situations.. I have came to the decision to look at the F70 or the F200.. I have read that the F200 does overall take a better picture.. but what I am really looking for is which one takes the better photo in low-light?
. . .

Which camera is the better deal? Also, can anyone show any pictures of either camera in a low-light? Also... I want to start learning how to PP... is there also one that would do better in this?

I've compared Canon's G11 with the F70EXR and the G11 is significantly better in very low light. When the light is so dim that even though you can see the subject (in both cameras) in their LCD displays, when the cameras are prefocused by half-pressing the shutter, the F70's display becomes so dark that nothing can be seen other than perhaps a few small points of the lightest areas, and sometimes not even that. The final results are also much sharper with the G11, and it's not because the F70 had trouble focusing accurately in very low light. I used no AF assist lights and found that if I used the flash, the F70's shots were much sharper, so the F70's problem is probably that when not using a flash, at the slow shutter speeds that are needed the G11's IS provides better stabilization.

I don't know what parameters you set for your comparison, but I guess you are aware that the F70 restricts shutter speed to no slower than 1/4 sec in most modes. Having played a bit with the F70 in low light, I found some shots slightly under exposed because of this, and usually when set to ISO800(auto). Of course slower than 1/4 risks camera shake.

Nick

Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

NIK11 wrote:
. . .

I've compared Canon's G11 with the F70EXR and the G11 is significantly better in very low light. When the light is so dim that even though you can see the subject (in both cameras) in their LCD displays, when the cameras are prefocused by half-pressing the shutter, the F70's display becomes so dark that nothing can be seen other than perhaps a few small points of the lightest areas, and sometimes not even that. The final results are also much sharper with the G11, and it's not because the F70 had trouble focusing accurately in very low light. I used no AF assist lights and found that if I used the flash, the F70's shots were much sharper, so the F70's problem is probably that when not using a flash, at the slow shutter speeds that are needed the G11's IS provides better stabilization.

I don't know what parameters you set for your comparison, but I guess you are aware that the F70 restricts shutter speed to no slower than 1/4 sec in most modes. Having played a bit with the F70 in low light, I found some shots slightly under exposed because of this, and usually when set to ISO800(auto). Of course slower than 1/4 risks camera shake.

Yes, I'm quite aware of that limitation. It caught me one evening shortly after I bought it when I was wondering why I wasn't able to increase the brightness of some shots by increasing the exposure compensation. Later that evening (at home) I figured out that the 1/4 sec. limit was the problem. What you're suggesting though wasn't what happened. Both cameras shot were under the same conditions and the exposures were similar. Had the F70 actually needed a slower shutter speed , the pictures it did manage to capture would have been too dark, but the pictures also shouldn't have been been as blurry as they turned out since not allowing a slower shutter speed could only have helped minimize camera shake. No, the F70's IS just doesn't seem as effective as the G11's at close distances. I haven't tried comparisons in brighter light at longer focal lengths, but from the times I've shot it under those conditions the IS seemed to be doing its job.

morey000 Senior Member • Posts: 2,741
to zoom or not to zoom... that is the question

Unless you're a pixel peeper that's looking for the last bit of resolution and contrast, just go for the F70. It's got more zoom range, some cool new modes and it's way cheaper.

the slight amount of IQ loss, you'll never notice in the real world.

28-140mm is terrific.
27-270mm - even better.
--

AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 61,914
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

It's a trade-off - the F200 has better image quality if you're printing bigger than 7X5" and a better lens / LCD - the F70 has more zoom .. rather like comparing an LX3 to a TZ7 but on a lesser scale ..

I borrowed an F70 for an afternoon and still bought the F200 - we bought a cherry picked F70 (without blurry corners) for my niece for Christmas as I got to trial it for a week and instead of keeping it and getting her another - I STILL Kept the F200 , the image quality difference is very real at All ISOs and both full and half size..

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John 3 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

If you're looking for a low light camera get one of the Canon models with a larger sensor. The Image Stabilisation is far superior. The IS on the Fuji models is 'dual' IS which combines a weak IS with raising the ISO. Higher ISO = lower picture quality.
--
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AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 61,914
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

If you're looking for a low light camera get one of the Canon models with a larger sensor. The Image Stabilisation is far superior. The IS on the Fuji models is 'dual' IS which combines a weak IS with raising the ISO. Higher ISO = lower picture quality.

Correct about the G11's better IS and high ISO performance but the price of even the S90 is Double that the F200 or F70 can be had for (UK - From Fuji UK) and the G11 costs even more

Not totally correct about the Fuji Dual IS - it only ups the ISO if you let it by running in one of the Auto modes , in P mode you can Fix it to what you like and the Sensor IS may not be as good as the Lens IS in the G11 but its still very effective ..

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John 3 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR
  • it only ups the ISO if you let it

...yes, but if you don't 'let it' than you risk camera shake. I also used to own a Canon SD700 IS and pictures that I would get with it at ISO 400 are taken at ISO 800 or 1600 with the F200EXR - that's one or two stops difference.

Also, the G11 and S90 are cameras with a lot of manual controls - that's why they cost so much more. I was thinking more of something like the Canon SD990 (less manual controls) which has a 1/1.7 sensor and is priced closer to the F200EXR.
--
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Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,444
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

John 3 wrote:

...yes, but if you don't 'let it' than you risk camera shake.

This is an axiom ... you want to stay within the rules ... at 270mm, you want to maintain a shutter speed of 1/300s without IS for sharp images. Add IS and you want 1/75s at least for 2 stops effective.

And yet I have sharp images taken around sunset at 1/5s for a 6 stop improvement ....

Fuji requires more discipline because the F70 has twice and thrice the reach ... something conveniently forgotten by so many ...

And yes, I know how good Canon IS is ... I shot the G10 for a year ... and in low light quite often ...

I also used to own a Canon SD700 IS and pictures that I would get with it at ISO 400 are taken at ISO 800 or 1600 with the F200EXR - that's one or two stops difference.

I would attempt the same images with the F70 at the same speeds and get quite a few keepers ... and more importantly, at twice the magnification, which matters quite a bit if we are shooting at a concert from the audience ...

Also, the G11 and S90 are cameras with a lot of manual controls - that's why they cost so much more. I was thinking more of something like the Canon SD990 (less manual controls) which has a 1/1.7 sensor and is priced closer to the F200EXR.

The G11 and S90 are quite decent with high ISO ... shot in RAW at least. A little soft otherwise ... the jpeg engines being rather aggressive with NR (note: Fuji have solved that in EXR modes for the F70 and the F200.) But the SD990 ... I haven't seen much buzz around that cam ... it has the same sensor and high ISO prowess?

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lukewarm Contributing Member • Posts: 621
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

I used to have an SD700IS as well. It's a great camera, still is. I think I may know what's wrong with your lens. There's probably dust particles buildup that got inside the lens. You can take it to the service center and have it clean up. Although I think the cost of having it serviced might not be worth it.

brianj Forum Pro • Posts: 14,657
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

John 3 wrote:

  • it only ups the ISO if you let it

...yes, but if you don't 'let it' than you risk camera shake. I also used to own a Canon SD700 IS and pictures that I would get with it at ISO 400 are taken at ISO 800 or 1600 with the F200EXR - that's one or two stops difference.

Also, the G11 and S90 are cameras with a lot of manual controls - that's why they cost so much more. I was thinking more of something like the Canon SD990 (less manual controls) which has a 1/1.7 sensor and is priced closer to the F200EXR.
--

Like all the small canon cameras with large sensors, its lens starts at 36mm, so has no wide angle, this eliminates it from consideration for me.

Brian

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John 3 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

Yes - the SD990 has the same sensor as the G10.
--
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AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 61,914
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

Yes - the SD990 has the same sensor as the G10.

Unfortunately the blurry edged limited range lens (lifted from the SD950) is miles behind ... they needed to make a new QUALITY lens for that camera, it wasn't up to much on the SD950 and 15Mp just exaggertated its failings ..

The SD990 is superb in the middle of the image at full wide but elsewhere its lacking - moving to a plastic shell (no matter what canon call it, its Pure plastic) doesn't exactly give you the feeling of moneysworth either and the move from an i-Pod type command dial (SD950) to a moving one (where you end up pressing everything trying to turn it) was a bad move also - basically the SD990 was as far as I was concerned a disaster, and the shock was that the ONE thing you'd think would cause its downfall (the G10 sensor / imaging engine) was its only good point !!

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John 3 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

Wow - what a response! Full of passion, energy and conviction. I think I might go for the S90 except that the zoom range is a bit limited. Or just keep my F200 - it's just that the IS really p's me off. It'd be great if someone would make a customisable camera - ie. I'll take this sensor with that lens and these features - oh - but I've got a budget; I'll have to do without a few things. Sort of like buying a Dell computer.
--
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CAcreeks
CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 18,011
Re: F70EXR or F200EXR

It is the S90, not the SD990, that has the same sensor as the G11. Same comments about worse lens apply to the S90, however.

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