Thanks for the video article

Started Dec 1, 2009 | Discussions
TEBnewyork
TEBnewyork Forum Pro • Posts: 11,337
Thanks for the video article

Thanks for the video article. Dealing with video is a whole new world with its own language etc and it can get pretty confusing. So, for some of us we thank you for all the help we can get!
--
terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

jguerdat New Member • Posts: 2
Re: Thanks for the video article

The article says something I never heard before:

Clip limits

One of the main disadvantages with using a stills camera to shoot movies is the short recording times available for HD video; Nikon 5 minutes, Canon and Panasonic 12 minutes. However, if using VGA then the times are increased. This limitation is due to the tax laws with different tax rates for still and video cameras.

What/whose tax laws? It doesn't seem to be a worldwide scenario or there's something that I just never heard of. The limitation I know of is the use of the old, simple FAT32 file system which has a 4GB limit on file size. Use of a more advanced file system would allow virtually any size video.

Of course, the limitation may be used to mask other issues (whatever this tax thing is, sensor heating, etc.)...

TEBnewyork
OP TEBnewyork Forum Pro • Posts: 11,337
The tax issue

The tax issue is pretty well known and as far as I know is only an EU issue. For instance the same camera by Panasonic was launched as the TZ7 in Europe and the ZS3 in the US and the only difference is the limit on video clips. The import tariffs are higher on video cameras and a clip over the 30 min limit counts as a video camera and not a stills camera making it more expensive.
--
terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

dizpark New Member • Posts: 22
Re: clip length limit for PANA is 30 min in EU

I don't think the article is very accurate. AFAIK Panasonic has 30 min clip length limitation for European models and NO limitation for models sold elsewhare.

dizpark New Member • Posts: 22
question about resolution/fps table

I wonder about the accuracy/usefulness of the maximum video resolution (frame rate) table in the article.

I did not check the other cameras but for panaconics GH1 GF1 the quoted fps appear to be "sensor output fps" whereas the "final" output as wrapped in the file is different from the one quoted in the table. Furthermore in case of Panasnic these final fps are different for PAL and NTSC models AFAIK.

curtmill22 Regular Member • Posts: 292
Re: Thanks for the video article

TEBnewyork wrote:

Thanks for the video article. Dealing with video is a whole new world with its own language etc and it can get pretty confusing.

I also want to thank you though it is to laugh that in an article aimed at the absolute beginner within a paragraph or so undefined terms such as 720p are being used. They did define it later in the article which is better than other places I have been going to to learn about my newest aspect of my photography hobby. I am having such a hard time grasping some of these concepts. Wikipedia articles, AV forums, everyplace I can go to study. It is coming together but it is difficult.
--
Curt on Cape Cod

 curtmill22's gear list:curtmill22's gear list
Canon EOS 550D Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus PEN E-PL3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2
jguerdat New Member • Posts: 2
Re: The tax issue

Ok, so I'm the only one who doesn't know about EU tax issues. However, especially with the U.S., there doesn't seem to be an issue so why limit length (semi-)artificially?

That asked, I must say I've never come close to the 12 minute/4GB limit on my 5DII...

Tom C Veteran Member • Posts: 5,488
Re: Thanks for the video article

I have read a number of post about the disadvantage of the five minute limit, unless you are copying a movie this is not a problem for most users. When I shot 8mm film, one roll was about three minutes. Five minutes is a long time for one clip, even in a full length movie one scene seldom if ever goes over 5 minutes, the clips are spliced together to make a 2 hour movie. When I take home movies this is what I do to make one longer movie. Remember, once you stop and start shooting again the 5 minutes starts over. You will find four or five minutes is more then enough to shoot your home videos.

jguerdat wrote:

The article says something I never heard before:

Clip limits

One of the main disadvantages with using a stills camera to shoot movies is the short recording times available for HD video; Nikon 5 minutes, Canon and Panasonic 12 minutes. However, if using VGA then the times are increased. This limitation is due to the tax laws with different tax rates for still and video cameras.

What/whose tax laws? It doesn't seem to be a worldwide scenario or there's something that I just never heard of. The limitation I know of is the use of the old, simple FAT32 file system which has a 4GB limit on file size. Use of a more advanced file system would allow virtually any size video.

Of course, the limitation may be used to mask other issues (whatever this tax thing is, sensor heating, etc.)...

-- hide signature --

Tom

Tom V from SF Junior Member • Posts: 37
Re: Thanks for the video article

An excellent introduction to the subject, it at least makes people aware of the strengths, limitations, and issues involved with the world of HD video.

A small correction. Only the $1000+ consumer HD cams are using 1/3" imaging chips. Most are 1/6" or 1/4". These should be included in your diagram. It would also be fun to include a Super 35 cine frame for comparison (almost identical to APC-C!).

Thanks again for this resource.

Simon97
Simon97 Senior Member • Posts: 2,725
Re: Thanks for the video article

I'm glad audio was discussed a bit. Audio sampling rate is important to sound quality. Many point and shoots can make such beautiful video, but the sound is terrible. I had a Panasonic LZ8 that made nice videos, but the audio sucked. Only 8 KHz sampling rate. My older Canon A610 sounds better at 11 Khz rate, but it is far from good.

Entry level P&S cameras should not be less than 16Khz.

Sampling rate along with bit rate for audio should be listed in te specs of any tested camera.

 Simon97's gear list:Simon97's gear list
Canon PowerShot ELPH 360 HS Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Olympus PEN E-PM1
Svetoslav New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Thanks for the video article

I really appreciate the hard work done by dpreview.com over the years to provide accurate data related to digital photography, but if dpreview.com is going to enter video I would expect the same quality, not less. So let me point some of the problems in this article:

1. The biggest problem. PAL and NTSC are systems that allow transmitting of the color information in such way that is compatible with old black/white TV sets. Just like SECAM. Both systems have nothing to do with defining image resolution and video format. So defining that NTSC signal has 720x480 resolutions or PAL (720x576) is wrong. In fact the image resolution is define base on channel allocation in each country. For example in EU most country are using broadcast channel system called B (VHF) G (UHF). This is what determent the use of image resolution, not the use of PAL. For example there are countries in the world that are using PAL-M where the image resolution is 525 lines/29.97 frames.

2. The article ignores the over-scanning used by old TV sets. Let me explain why this is very important. In old analog days only vertical resolution is defined not horizontal. The broadcast in USA is 525 lines / 29.97 frames and in most of the EU it was 625 lines / 25 frames. But not all lines are displayed. Some of those lines are used for vertical synchronization and sending additional information like tele-text in EU or close-captions in USA. In USA only 480 lines are visible, and 576 in EU. The over-scanning is not only limited for the vertical, but also applies for the horizontal. So when the first computers start using regular TV set as displays the engineers had account for over-scanning. As result the VGA standard was defined as 640x480.

3. The image comparison between 720x480 (NTSC) and 720x576 (PAL) and 640x480 (VGA) is very misleading. All three images will look exactly the same on any TV because all three have 4:3 aspect ratio and because the over-scanning all three will cover the same field of view. The PAL image examined very close will appear better because the vertical lines are packed more closely to each other, but from normal view distance there will be no real difference. The same applies about the comparison between 1920x1080 and 1280x720 images.

Vincent Oliver
Vincent Oliver Senior Member • Posts: 1,502
Re: Thanks for the video article

Thanks for your feedback on my video feature.

It is difficult to make a starting point with video as to many readers this is a totally new ball game. I didn't want to jump too much in the deep end and yet at the same time I didn't want to assume that everyone was a total novice.

Regarding the tax laws on HDSLR cameras, I am still out on this one. I know there is a 4GB limit on recording times under FAT32, but as with the Sony EX1/EX3 there should be no reason why software can't seamlessly join two clips together. I also believe that most people would be more than happy to pay a tax difference if they could shoot for longer times. Having said this, as I pointed out in the feature, you shouldn't be shooting clips for longer than a minute or two maximum, unless you intend covering an event such as a wedding ceremony. Hands up, how many readers have had to endure endless slide shows of holiday snaps, now imagine if you had to look at hours of holiday videos maybe it should be thank you for the 5 minute limit!

I am sure we will be covering more aspects of shooting and editing video in the weeks to come.

ENJOY!
--
Vincent Oliver - editor of photo-i
author of 'A Guide to Digital Printing & Scanning (DVD)

neverhurry Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: Thanks for the video article

I am sorry, but where is this video article?

Robert MacLeay New Member • Posts: 3
Re: Where is this video article?

Learn/Glossary > Guides > Beginner's guide to HD video
or
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Guides/hd_beginners_guide_01.htm

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