Review of 7D by Darwin Wiggett

Started Nov 11, 2009 | Discussions
Gtam Forum Member • Posts: 66
Re: Focus Issue ?

Just read in the Q&A that he did not use the latest firmware but he didn't say either whether he used 1.0.9 fw which fixed the Liveview focus issue.

"darwinwiggett Says:
November 12, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Sorry guys for the delayed response – I have actually been very busy this morning preparing for a photo seminar.

I used the cameras before the latest firmware update was released 1.1.0. Hopefully the firmware tidies up some ‘issues’. "

Mr Realistic Forum Member • Posts: 69
Who is Darwin Wiggett? - nt.

and why has it only done one review?

David_C Contributing Member • Posts: 931
Re: Dear alundeb......

David Hull wrote:

David_C wrote:

You have some interesting points, but I found it interresting that the reviewer tried 3 different 7D's.

He tried 3 7D's which all were working properly and all of which gave him the same result. This was not because the 7D was defective, it was because the photographer doing the review, didn't understand what he was doing. I think that the people here who DO understand this, have tried to make it pretty clear.

One would think that the fact that he tried three cameras all of which gave him bad results might make him examine his technique -- but apperently not.

Which is why I am looking forward to alundeb's in-death review, I want to see how a proper review should be done.

So I look forward to your in-death review of the 7D, alundeb, to show us how to properly test a camera and write a review.

Dave

alundeb wrote:

Raw converter (green channel differences not correctly handled), and aperture, sadly as usual with all reviews of 7D sharpness.

Come on, f8 to f16 on a 18 MP crop.

Did they say f16? On a crop? The airy disc is two pixels wide.

If a reviewer doesn't know that you must use 1 1/3 stop wider aperture on a 1.6 crop sensor to get the SAME DOF AND DIFFRACTION, they are far off.

They don't have a clue what they're doing.

Our only hope for a correct measurement of 7D resolution is photozone, they use apertue f/4.

-- hide signature --

It depends on the eye

Greg Pavlov Senior Member • Posts: 1,888
Re: alundeb is essentially correct

on the other hand, there is a visual presentation of the effects of sensor density on diffraction in DPR's review of the 100mm macro. The first part is towards the bottom of page 3, the other on page 4 (5?).

Greg Pavlov wrote:

One set of data that could give folks some idea of the relationship betw sensor density and IQ at higher f-stops is lens test data with different DSLR models. DPR's just-released tests of Canon's new 100mm macro is one example. Others are on PhotoZone, which has tested a good number of Canon lenses with 2 or more DSLRs. Overall, the resolution-f-stop curves for most lenses appear to be independent of sensor density. One exception appears to be PhtoZone's tests of the 17-55 f/2.8.

PeaceFrog wrote:

Maybe you guys should do a little test to see which one does a better job (rebel XTi or EOS 7D). It would be interesting to see.

Greg

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,790
Re: Who is Darwin Wiggett? - nt.

Mr Realistic wrote:

and why has it only done one review?

He is a Canadian Nature photographer and involved with this magazine/website. I used to work for the company that printed it. The only thing I miss about that job. If you look on the left there is a list of contributors.

http://www.outdoorphotographycanada.com/index.php

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Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,790
Re: Who is Darwin Wiggett? - nt.

Zee Char wrote:

Mr Realistic wrote:

and why has it only done one review?

He is a Canadian Nature photographer and involved with this magazine/website. I used to work for the company that printed it. The only thing I miss about that job. If you look on the left there is a list of contributors.

http://www.outdoorphotographycanada.com/index.php

Oh Yes. I was lucky to go on a weekend retreat with Mike Grandmasion last spring. Very talented photog.

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halfamo Contributing Member • Posts: 637
Re: Who is Darwin Wiggett? - nt.

What a surprise. After all the slagging he's received, turns out Darwin has produced some fabulous images. Probably many better than his critics.

The strength & beauty of his images suggest that he is highly competent. Been a photographer for 25 years, so he probably knows something about focus.

http://www.darwinwiggett.com/

Thanks for the heads up Zee Char.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,790
Re: Who is Darwin Wiggett? - nt.

Thanks. Like I said earlier I have a lot of respect for him but I'm just not sure about his review. Pilot error or a bad unit - not sure what happened there?

And I must admit my very first impression of my 7D was it was soft. I was getting great football high ISO shots, good bird shots but it just did not jump out at me like my 50D did. I am convinced that after sending it in for an oil change it will be fine.

We know it can do it. There have been great shots posted everywhere. Michael Kaplan posted that parrot image a week ago which was sharp and no sharpening applied.

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clknight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,107
Wow....7D is quite capable

against the MkII in those shooting conditions.

Thanks for posting that review.
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Colin

beerguy Senior Member • Posts: 2,539
Re: Darwin Wiggett has a poor workflow. See this thread

DRoOpY1592 wrote:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/809801/136#7765183

Page 137 post 16.

This guy has it figured out. I'm getting fantastic IQ from my 7D. People who insist on following their old workflow are not going to get optimal results results, plain and simple. It's easy to upgrade your camera, but sometimes we must upgrade our processes as well.

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Cheers,

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Mr Realistic Forum Member • Posts: 69
excellent photographer, no experience reviewing

halfamo wrote:

What a surprise. After all the slagging he's received, turns out Darwin has produced some fabulous images. Probably many better than his critics.

The strength & beauty of his images suggest that he is highly competent. Been a photographer for 25 years, so he probably knows something about focus.

http://www.darwinwiggett.com/

Yes highly competent photographer, but very inexperienced reviewer. The 7D review is the only review ever done on that site...and as Mrs. Reality points out, 7D autofocus was not tested in the review.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,790
Re: excellent photographer, no experience reviewing

Mr Realistic wrote:

halfamo wrote:

What a surprise. After all the slagging he's received, turns out Darwin has produced some fabulous images. Probably many better than his critics.

The strength & beauty of his images suggest that he is highly competent. Been a photographer for 25 years, so he probably knows something about focus.

http://www.darwinwiggett.com/

Yes highly competent photographer, but very inexperienced reviewer. The 7D review is the only review ever done on that site...and as Mrs. Reality points out, 7D autofocus was not tested in the review.

A good call. I would have to back that Mr Realistic. That is the issue here.

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Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,790
Re: Darwin Wiggett has a poor workflow. See this thread

I read that as well. It is to bad a very good nature photographer with little review experience was allowed to review a camera.

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halfamo Contributing Member • Posts: 637
Re: excellent photographer, no experience reviewing

His review said that the 7D images were mushy & that the camera, for his way of shooting, was not suitable for landscapes.

Darwin Wiggett gives a fulsome defence of his methods on his blog at the end of the review.

http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/

It was a disappointment that DPR's review didn't also compare the 7D image quality to the Canon 5D Mark 2. After all there's only 3million pixels between them. Bit of a cop out I feel.

jameslj Regular Member • Posts: 125
Maybe 7D is 'softer', maybe it doesn't matter, maybe it's good

I don't know about Darwin Wigget's results - valid, invalid, whatever.

When I look at my 7D images at 100% maybe they do look slightly soft. Or maybe it's smooth. The images seem highly tolerant of the sharpness sliders in DPP, though, and don't seem to become over sharpened as easily as my 40D images.

I really like the IQ output I get with the 7D. I find the images look very natural and smooth. More life like and more realistic than my 40D (which is still a great cam). Largely, I think this is due to the high res on the 7D and having fine detail made up of lower level fine detail. If that lower level detail is softer or smoother but results in a more natural looking image in the end product, what would be wrong with that?

I'm just guessing. I'm no photo sensor engineer. If there's something to this, though, I really have to question judging any camera by looking at 100% views.

Katherine Lud Regular Member • Posts: 376
I had the D300 and 7D

And I don't know what sharpening this guy has set his D300 on but my 7D shots were ALWAYS much sharper with 0 post processing or in camera sharpening. I didn't do any formal testing but took comparable lenses (100mm macro by Canon and 105mm macro by Nikkor) and every single shot was sharper with the 7D. I happily sold my D300 and everyone now is telling me how much sharper my 7D pix are compared to the last 2 years of shooting with the D300. One happy camper here!

Katherine

arindamdas Forum Member • Posts: 64
Re: MY 7D Xsi comparison pics

thanks for the information.

Daniel Clune wrote:

Yes both cameras under exposed BUT so did every other camera i have used the test chart on (D30, 10D, XT, 1DMKII, 1DSMKII, and now Xsi and 7D) Its mostly white so all cameras will under expose on it. I just mentioned it as i forgot to use exposure comp when taking the pics. I was in aperture priority mode.

To me it looks like the Xsi has a weaker anti alias filter than 7D. But you can always sharpen up the 7D. See
'

arindamdas wrote:

based on the full size images, I don't see too much of a difference between the xsi and the 7D. are you seeing anything different?

did both the cameras underexpose?

Daniel Clune wrote:

I saw this test and since i have both a 7D and a rebel Xsi i did a quick test of a lens chart i printed a few years ago for testing lenses. Its a 13 by 19 inch print done on my old canon S9000 printer..

Shots taken on tripod mirror lockup 2 sec self timer focus done manually in live veiw 10X magnify. I shot both jpg and raw i used the raw for this test, processed in DPP no sharping and no noise reduction. I uped the exposure about .67 in DPP since they were a little under exposed since the target is mostly white. I could have used exposrue comp but did this quickly. I doubt it would have any effect and sharpness. The first 3 are 7D first at F4 then F8 then F13 next three Xsi same F stops.
Full size pics here http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm/7dcompare450d
here is a crop i took from the center from the F4 shots.

Robert D. McGee1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,157
The review in question ignores the very important fact

that EVERY camera (to a lesser degree even different bodies of the same brand and model) require different procedures to get the best out of them. It was true with my Leica M3 in the 35 mm days (I set my own ISO depending on negative processing) and it is ESPECIALLY true today with digital. I found it necessary to process images from my 10D, 20D, and now 40D very differently. They all required different amounts of sharpening, curves, etc for best results. They each responded to THEIR own tailored workflow for best results. The better cameras allow US to do the processing and give us flat unsharpened images in RAW to bring OUR vision to the fore.

I don't yet own a 7D but intend to in a matter of weeks. When I get it I fully expect to have to learn how to use it and how to best process the RAW images. That is just the way it is.... It is hard to understand how an excellent photographer can do a review so poorly.
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David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,349
Re: I had the D300 and 7D

Katherine Lud wrote:

And I don't know what sharpening this guy has set his D300 on but my 7D shots were ALWAYS much sharper with 0 post processing or in camera sharpening. I didn't do any formal testing but took comparable lenses (100mm macro by Canon and 105mm macro by Nikkor) and every single shot was sharper with the 7D. I happily sold my D300 and everyone now is telling me how much sharper my 7D pix are compared to the last 2 years of shooting with the D300. One happy camper here!

Katherine

Did you ever come to closure on your exposure issue?

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Katherine Lud Regular Member • Posts: 376
Wasn't my issue

It was my neighbor's camera. Mine exposes perfectly every time (and focuses perfectly too!). Not sure whether she will pursue it or not. She took her camera back and I think she is just happily using it as is? I will ask her this weekend...

Katherine

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