Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

Started Sep 15, 2009 | Discussions
photo nuts Senior Member • Posts: 1,364
Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

"It would have been unreasonable to expect Canon's engineers to overcome the laws of physics." - from http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos50d/page18.asp

"It appears that Canon has reached the limit of what is sensible, in terms of megapixels on an APS-C sensor." - from http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos50d/page31.asp

ISO 3200. RAW to JPEG. IDENTICAL RAW conversion settings.

7D vs 50D noise:

7D vs 40D vs D5000 (same as D90 & D300s) noise:

7D vs 40D vs D5000 (same as D90 & D300s) resolution:

7D vs D5000 (same as D90 & D300s) resolution:

(Note that Imaging Resource needs to replace their studio light bulbs... 7D ISO sensitivity is OK as seen in http://stepheneastwood.com/Canon/iso_comp_7/tif/ )

mailman88
mailman88 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,785
Re: Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

...yes its time. Eating crow meat is an humbling experience.

 mailman88's gear list:mailman88's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 30D Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM Canon EF 28-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM +4 more
grammieb14 Senior Member • Posts: 2,580
Re: Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

-Everyone is wrong sometimes & if they were wrong, I am sure they will be big enough to admit it. Technology races on & things that were not possible yesterday may be today.

 grammieb14's gear list:grammieb14's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS M3 Canon EOS Rebel SL2 +30 more
Adam2 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,434
Dunno?

Once true production cameras are out, perhaps we can perform some objective tests. All of this is speculation based on limited pre-production bodies and a couple of photos. All I am hoping for is reasonable AF and no black dots.

R1er Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Graphic.

What Canon has accomplished is very impressive.

 R1er's gear list:R1er's gear list
Olympus E-M5 II Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Olympus Zuiko Digital 1.4x Teleconverter EC-14 +3 more
SteveDude Senior Member • Posts: 2,485
To me the most impressive thing is...

The lack of blotchiness in the noise, and the apparent randomness of it. It really does remind me of film and should clean up REALLY well.

Random grain is nice, and high iso noise has until recently reminded me of pattern noise or large blotches, neither of which is pleasant to the eyes.

Steve
--
My galleries are at http://www.GrillosView.com , Equipment on profile page

Edward In Toronto Veteran Member • Posts: 4,217
I'm impressed

I've got a EFS 17-55(is) that's just looking forward to go for a ride.
--
Thanks, Ed
http://www.edwardintoronto.com

ijustloveshooting
ijustloveshooting Senior Member • Posts: 2,997
7D is simply awesome...

stunning results...sharper,more detail less noise....just what i wished

 ijustloveshooting's gear list:ijustloveshooting's gear list
Fujifilm X-A1 Sony Alpha a7 II Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R +10 more
clknight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,107
I tried that already.....

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=32892442

I appreciate the humor in DPreview's faulted conjecture on the future of SLR technology as much as the next guy.
--
http://www.pbase.com/clknight
Colin

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,148
Re: Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

The difference is even bigger than you show here, since you showed 100% crops, with the 7D using a smaller fraction of the sensor to represent the same displayed area. For example, the 40D image should be upsampled to 133% for a direct comparison of image quality (or the quality of the same fractional crop). Or, both could be upsampled but the 40D 1.33x as much, etc.

-- hide signature --

John

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,148
Re: Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

grammieb14 wrote:

-Everyone is wrong sometimes & if they were wrong, I am sure they will be big enough to admit it. Technology races on & things that were not possible yesterday may be today.

They were almost as wrong with the 50D. The 50D was a big step up from the 40D. Image-level read noise at ISO 100 went down, high-ISO read noise stayed about the same, statistically, at the image level, but the AA filter is much more powerful in the 40D, so the 50D needed less sharpening with a sharp lens, sharpening noise less. Yes, no matter what the measured RAW noise levels are in the camera, the more the image needs to be sharpened, the more you have to sharpen high-frequency noise as well.

Someday, we may be shooting at pixel densities where AA filters are not needed or redundant, even with sharp lenses, but until then, images will be sharpened near their original nyquist, where most of the most visible noise lies.

Shooting the same-size subjects with the same optics, my 50D images are the crispest of any of the Canons I've used, including the 5D2 (better in noise, but worse in resolution). My 7D will be even better.

-- hide signature --

John

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,148
Re: Dunno?

Adam2 wrote:

Once true production cameras are out, perhaps we can perform some objective tests.

You expect production to be worse than pre-production? Your objection might be better received if the 7D didn't do well pre-production. The 7D humbles every other APS-C in image quality, pre-production.

-- hide signature --

John

Dietmar Fichter Senior Member • Posts: 1,655
Re: Dunno?

Adam2 wrote:

Once true production cameras are out,

There was a posting about a week or so ago on a European site, French I think, that showed a pre-production 7D with firmware as version 4.5.2. I wrote it down since Canon normally does not reveal the beta version their firmware. Since that posting I have not seen any more posting of the 7D firmware version other then just plain "beta".

It will be interesting to see what the 7D production firmware version will be.

Dietmar

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,148
Re: Graphic.

R1er wrote:

What Canon has accomplished is very impressive.

I'm telling you, shot noise is not an issue when increasing density (any time soon), and read noise is an artificial obstacle which may completely disappear someday. We "ain't seen nothing yet".

-- hide signature --

John

ijustloveshooting
ijustloveshooting Senior Member • Posts: 2,997
Re: I tried that already.....

i think we should be quiet otherwise they may do the same as they did in comparison of 500d vs d5000 and d90... i wont be surprised if they claim d90/d300s is better in terms of IQ than 7D despite 7D has sharper and more detailed images like 500D has...

 ijustloveshooting's gear list:ijustloveshooting's gear list
Fujifilm X-A1 Sony Alpha a7 II Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R +10 more
mansito Contributing Member • Posts: 879
Re: Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

I will never happen. As they are in nikon pockets.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,148
Re: To me the most impressive thing is...

SteveDude wrote:

The lack of blotchiness in the noise, and the apparent randomness of it. It really does remind me of film and should clean up REALLY well.

Blotchiness is usually due in Canons to subliminal banding noise - banding strong enough to group together random 2D chromatic noise of the same color as the band from neighboring lines of the same color (blue-green or red-green, and the green is usually low because most WB settings only boost red and/or blue).

So, when you get less banding, you get less blotchiness. Canon has passively sabotaged many of their existing cameras, by not reducing banding noise (easily done post-capture if the sensor is designed for it).

-- hide signature --

John

OP photo nuts Senior Member • Posts: 1,364
My predictions...

ijustloveshooting wrote:

i think we should be quiet otherwise they may do the same as they did in comparison of 500d vs d5000 and d90... i wont be surprised if they claim d90/d300s is better in terms of IQ than 7D despite 7D has sharper and more detailed images like 500D has...

1) If this is a Nikon sensor, they'll fall over themselves and call this a breakthrough, a technological feat. However, since this is Canon, they'll go... 'meh... no big deal... hardly impressive...'.

Before Nikon/Sony had the D3/D900, DPReview considered full frame format to be a dinosaur that is destined for extinction. Of course, once Nikon stepped up to the FX challenge, they started to sing a different tune. Hypocrites.

2) They (particularly Phil) will soon step in with their usual snide remarks.

OP photo nuts Senior Member • Posts: 1,364
You are right. But don't want to embarass them any further. ;) /nt

no text here

Steven Veteran Member • Posts: 4,421
Re: Will DPReview admit they need to eat some crow?

They really need to eat crow. I wasn't going to buy a 50D after reading the review here. But I finally used one and could not beleive my eyes. I owned every XXD camera Canon came out with and also the Nikon D90 and D300. Picked up a 50D and sold the Nikon stuff. 50D is the best Canon XXD camera to date. 50D review was way off. 50D has a bad rep for nothing.

 Steven's gear list:Steven's gear list
Nikon D7100
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads