G11 shutter delay

Started Aug 20, 2009 | Discussions
Jere Landis Senior Member • Posts: 1,933
G11 shutter delay

Will the shutter delay be less with the G11?

 Jere Landis's gear list:Jere Landis's gear list
Canon EOS 550D Panasonic Lumix DMC-G10 Olympus PEN E-PL3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Olympus PEN E-PM2 +11 more
rkhndjr Forum Pro • Posts: 13,082
Re: G11 shutter delay

Jere, my source in China says it will be much faster:-)) If not, hold the shutter down until you think you have a pic...
--

tyampel Veteran Member • Posts: 4,809
Re: G11 shutter delay

Compared to what?

sFaster processors can process the images faster. This includes metering, focusing, etc.

Also the reduced MP sensor means less information to process.

So it is very likely that the shutter lag will be reduced. On the other hand Canon may decide to waste the CPU cycles on other stuff, such as face recognition.
So we will have to wait and see.

-- hide signature --

Tod Yampel

Duck Club member

William Ing Contributing Member • Posts: 628
Re: G11 shutter delay

I'm constantly amazed how seldom the issue of shutter lag comes up in these fora, whether we're talking about the latest Canon P&S offerings, or stuff that came down the pike over 12 months ago (like the Panasonic LX3). In the case of the S90 (the only new Canon Powershot that genuinely interests me) people seem to be infinitely more concerned with "deal breakers" such as size and pocketability, the lack of zoom range, the lack of an optical viewfinder, the lack of a grip, the power of the onboard flash, the control rings, etc., etc.

For example, just look how little interest there's been in responding to this particular thread.

And yet, the amount of shutter lag should be of paramount concern for any street photographer looking to adapt one of these point and shoot cameras for stealth photography. So far--and I'm willing to be corrected if you have other information--it seems to me that of all the manufacturers of sub-MFT sensor, full feature cameras (viz, Ricoh GX series, Panny LX3, Canon G series, and perhaps Fuji--of which I have little personal knowledge) only Ricoh has made any serious attempt to address this problem. Even the magnificent LX3, which I use with great frequency for travel and for my daily work as a newspaper shooter, falls down quite miserably in the area of shutter lag. The little Panny performed brilliantly and dependably during a recent month-long trip through Peru--except when I attempted to shoot fast moving targets like running, jumping, gesticulating folk dancers and musicians, or scurrying street demonstrators.

I'm thinking that IF S90 image quality and noise suppression turn out to be everything Canon is claiming, and IF Canon has made genuine advances in pre-focus shutter lag times, the S90, with its ingenious control ring system, 28mm f/2 lens and slightly extended telephoto range (not much over the LX3's 60mm, I'll grant you, but still plenty for me at 105mm) might just be an excellent adjunct to my LX3, with which I have no intention of parting.at this time.

Occasionally, I still shoot with the highly pocketable 7.1 MP Canon SD 800 IS Elph I bought several years ago. Reason: I've discovered it's capable of capturing perfectly timed (non-flash) daylight shots of martial arts competitions or of dance performances under decent illumination. Is it too much, then, to hope that, more than three years down the road, Canon has at last opted to produce a 10 MP, RAW-capable point and shooter that features pre-focus shutter lag times equal to or less than those of my SD 800 IS?

So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the S90 will lend itself admirably to aperture priority, hyperfocal distance shooting, and that prefocus shutter lag times will at last reduce the frustration of trying to capture the movement of an arm, or the toss of a ball, or the leap of a dancer.

Graystar Veteran Member • Posts: 8,373
Re: G11 shutter delay

William Ing wrote:

I'm constantly amazed how seldom the issue of shutter lag comes up in these fora

That’s because the lag depends heavily on your camera settings.

If you set the camera to manual focus and set focus to infinity, and then just leave the camera at 28mm for street photography, there is no lag. That’s because the majority of the lag comes from focusing. So people learn to adjust.

With the G11 we see the return of Quick Shot mode, where the camera is continually adjusting its focus and exposure without the shutter being pressed, so the shutter lag may be reduced while full functionality is available, but at the cost of battery life.

.

cirspat New Member • Posts: 15
Re: G11 shutter delay

this is an interesting topic to talk about: shutter lag!
Interesting x photographers. Street photographers.

wolfpuppies3 Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Slower than G-10 according to canonusa.com specs

So, smaller LCD that tilts (how many photos do you take of yourself?), same lens, same size sensor with fewer MP, slower frame rate. And I am supposed to trade my two G-10s for G-11s?

Not

-- hide signature --

Photography at the speed of sound.

gordonsbuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,388
Re: G11 shutter delay

Graystar wrote:

William Ing wrote:

I'm constantly amazed how seldom the issue of shutter lag comes up in these fora

That’s because the lag depends heavily on your camera settings.

If you set the camera to manual focus and set focus to infinity, and then just leave the camera at 28mm for street photography, there is no lag. That’s because the majority of the lag comes from focusing. So people learn to adjust.

Although it seems obvious and intuitive that shutter lag would be zero or very short when using manual settings, this is not true for my G9. Shutter lag is very noticable even when everything possible is turned off and manual exposure with manual focus is used. I don't understand it. In fact, if manual operation really resulted in near zero shutter lag, there would have been no need for Canon to come out with the "Quick Shot" mode.

The solution, of course, is the half-pressed shutter button. It's beyond me why the "Quick Shot" mode isn't simply a lock down of the half pressed shutter button.

guy in indiana Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: G11 shutter delay

right, there is always shutter lag, even with everything all manual, even with a half depressed shutter. if you shoot pedestrians, you might not notice it. i had a 1970's all manual basic film slr for 30 years, and the G series is better in every way, except focusing and shutter lag. which are so basic it also astounds me that people want arcane wishlist stuff.

-- hide signature --

guy

if it looks simple, you're too far away
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artfarmer/

lxcellent Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: Slower than G-10 according to canonusa.com specs

You do understand that the concerns you have listed have nothing to do with shutter lag? We are not talking about the speed of the lens (largest f-stops) here. We are discussing the delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual capture of the image on the CCD.

For me, shutter lag iis indeed the deal breaker. The quality of an image has more to do with capturing the moment (a fleeting expression, a pole vaulter at the height of a jump, the contact of the ball on the bat) than exposure, fps, speed of lens, IS, face recognition, etc.

 lxcellent's gear list:lxcellent's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark II Canon EOS D30 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Fujifilm X-E1 +1 more
lxcellent Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: G11 shutter delay

I completely agree. Here is my ideal compact:

No shutter lag

Fixed 50mm (35mm equivalent) f/1.4-f/11 (better yet, make this an interchangable lens body - though one would lose the compact nature I suppose)
APS-sized (3:2 ratio, however) sensor at 10 MP

5 selectable AF sensors (horiz and vert sensitivity) at the Power of Thirds points and center
ISO range of 25-800 (usable)
two SD card slots
Av, M, and Tv (don't waste processor with P and other shooting modes)
Built in slave driver for Canon flashes
Weather sealed

A menu system that mimics the 1D SLR series so that I can transfer back and forth during shoots
Black with no chrome highlights

Cost: I would be willing to $999 US for this set of specs and I would bet there are a lot of people out there who would do the same. It would be a business expense anyway...

 lxcellent's gear list:lxcellent's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark II Canon EOS D30 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Fujifilm X-E1 +1 more
asoftwind
asoftwind Veteran Member • Posts: 5,815
Re: G11 shutter delay

Glad thie topic was brought up. For me also shutter lag is the deal breaker.

-- hide signature --

Claude
There are no bad pictures. Only bad retouchers.

tyampel Veteran Member • Posts: 4,809
Re: G11 shutter delay

Completely agree with your points.
My first digital camera was the Canon S1IS.
The shutter lag just drove me crazy.
So when Sony came out with the H1 I switched and stayed with them up to H50.

I missed the swiveling LCD Contrary to some posts, it is not just for self portraits.

Great for all kinds of from the waist level shooting. Children and dogs come to mind.

-- hide signature --

Tod Yampel

Duck Club member

Graystar Veteran Member • Posts: 8,373
Re: G11 shutter delay

gordonsbuck wrote:

Although it seems obvious and intuitive that shutter lag would be zero or very short when using manual settings, this is not true for my G9. Shutter lag is very noticable even when everything possible is turned off and manual exposure with manual focus is used. I don't understand it.

That's surprising because others have stated the opposite in reference to the G cameras. With my A710 I know that when in manual focus the camera will set exposure and capture faster than I can move my own hand after a full depress. It's just as fast as any disposable camera.

Now...with that said, I'll add that the noises that the camera makes seem to continue for a second after the image is taken. I used to wait until the all the shutter-like noises stopped before moving the camera. That is, until I realized that the image had already been taken a long time ago. So now, when the light is good and I'm in manual focus, I know I can just raise the camera, click, and move on without even breaking my stride.

In fact, if manual operation really resulted in near zero shutter lag, there would have been no need for Canon to come out with the "Quick Shot" mode.

Quick Shot is design for reduced lag while also providing auto focus and auto exposure. That's the difference.

The solution, of course, is the half-pressed shutter button.

Canon calls that Servo AF mode, and is another method to reduce lag. But it locks the exposure. Quick Shot continually maintains the correct exposure, as well as focus.

It's beyond me why the "Quick Shot" mode isn't simply a lock down of the half pressed shutter button.

All you have to do is read the manuals to see what the differences are between the different modes of operation. They're available from the Canon website.

.

gordonsbuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,388
Re: G series shutter delay

Although there have been many postings here stating that shutter delay can be made almost zero by putting a Canon G series camera in full manual mode, it doesn't really work that way. I suspect that some of those making that recommendation do not have a G series camera. Perhaps I should just say that I've not been able to get my G3 or G9 to perform at near zero shutter lag.

Almost all "automatic" cameras of the last decade or so make use of the half-pressed shutter button. It is not necessary to include any kind of AF or exposure tracking to take advantage of the half pressed shutter button. In fact, my own preference is that all settings become locked when the shutter button is half pressed. I was simply trying to say that, since it is obviously possible to lock all settings, why not do so in advance? I envision using full manual mode, including focus, pressing the "lock" button and then waiting for that decisive moment to photograph.

Graystar Veteran Member • Posts: 8,373
Re: G series shutter delay

gordonsbuck wrote:

Almost all "automatic" cameras of the last decade or so make use of the half-pressed shutter button. It is not necessary to include any kind of AF or exposure tracking to take advantage of the half pressed shutter button.

Half-pressed locks focus...with Servo AF, half-press does not lock focus.

In fact, my own preference is that all settings become locked when the shutter button is half pressed. I was simply trying to say that, since it is obviously possible to lock all settings, why not do so in advance?

The idea is that you may not know the distance or the eposure of the scene you may suddenly decide to capture. If you just keep your camera pointed in front of you as you wander around, then when you decide to take an image of whatever is in front of you, the camera will be ready with correct focus and exposure.

I envision using full manual mode, including focus, pressing the "lock" button and then waiting for that decisive moment to photograph.

That makes no sense at all. When you're in full manual there's nothing to lock. No setting changes itself unless you manually change it...hence "manual" mode. What are you locking??

.

guy in indiana Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: G series shutter delay

to be fair i usually have an external flash connected to my "old" g7

there is always shutter lag, even with all manual settings, focus, exposure, flash on manual, half pressing the shutter button even in this case reduces the lag but does not eliminate it.

-- hide signature --

guy

if it looks simple, you're too far away
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artfarmer/

wolfpuppies3 Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Couldn't agree more with you, I do not understand why the G-11

is rated at 1.1 fps; AF: approx. 0.7 fps; LV: approx. 0.8 fps, and the G-10 is Normal: approx. 1.3 fps; AF: approx. 0.7 fps; LV: approx. 0.7 fps (Large/Fine). That would appear to me to be a step backward.

-- hide signature --

Photography at the speed of sound.

nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,082
Re: G11 shutter delay

gordonsbuck wrote:

Although it seems obvious and intuitive that shutter lag would be zero or very short when using manual settings, this is not true for my G9. Shutter lag is very noticable even when everything possible is turned off and manual exposure with manual focus is used. I don't understand it.

Have you tried these settings? It works very well with my G10.

http://lifespy.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/setting-up-snap-shooting-mode-on-the-g9/

-- hide signature --

Larry G.
http://www.pbase.com/fernley

Hey, it ain't rocket surgery.

 nevada5's gear list:nevada5's gear list
Canon PowerShot S120 Panasonic LX100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 II ASPH Mega OIS +4 more
comeon Senior Member • Posts: 1,925
Re: G11 shutter delay

shutter lag that is noticable is a myth to me ..just point pull the trigger done ..or half press to focus pull the trigger done ..how fast to you want ..1 nano second or something
..shutter lag i dont get ...

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads