Update - Part I - TFT LCD Monitor Info Summary

Started Aug 6, 2009 | Discussions
NewsyL
NewsyL Veteran Member • Posts: 5,747
Update - Part I - TFT LCD Monitor Info Summary

Updating the summary.

What follows is a summation of information that has been posted in the PC Talk forum and elsewhere.

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In terms of image quality for photo editing, these are the TFT LCD panel types from best to worst:

IPS (newer variants are S-IPS, AS-IPS, H-IPS, e-IPS, etc)
PVA (newer variants are S-PVA, c-PVA)
MVA (newer variants are A-MVA, P-MVA, S-MVA, etc)
TN

If you would like some background on these panels, read this article:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm

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Your resolution is going to be related to the panel size and H:W aspect ratio.

Most 20" 4:3 monitors have a 1600x1200 resolution
but a 20" 16:10 monitor is likely to be 1680x1050

22" 16:10 typical... 1680x1050
24" 16:10 typical... 1920x1200

etc.

LCD's are specified as having a "native" resolution; this is the resolution at which the image on screen is displayed at its' sharpest and in correct proportion; trying to display a larger image will likely give you an error message on screen; displaying at a lower resolution will give an image that is not as sharp (may show jaggies) as at "native" and may not be correctly proportioned

(ie: displaying a circle at 800x600 (4:3) on a 1680x1050 (16:10) monitor will show a less than sharp oval)

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The following are typical sizes you may find on the shelf at big box retailers:
30" .... IPS variant
27" .... S-PVA but may be a TN panel soon
26" .... IPS variant (though the NEC 2690 is really a 25.5")
25.5" ... TN's have arrived, some IPS
24" .... IPS, PVA, MVA and most of the inexpensive ones are TN
23" .... 16:9 1920x1080 are almost all TN

22" .... almost all TN but several PVA and and eIPS have been introduced recently
21" ... most IPS/PVA monitors smaller than 22" are no longer in production

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Wide Gamut?

Be aware that many of the monitors now offer what they call a wide gamut colour space. If you use one of these monitors you may find that if you that you are not satisfied with the image on screen - many colours appear too saturated. You need to have a colour managed workspace which will include the browser you use for surfing and the software you use to edit and print your images.

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Contrast Ratios

-you'll find a lot of manufacturer's promotional literature claim 10,000:1 or higher contrast ratios but a little research will show that these are mostly for less expensive TN paneled monitors. There is a new generation of monitors coming to market with 1920x1080 resolution that is targeted to gamers and HDTV video watchers on a budget ( ie: university students) and the newest all have absurd contrast ratios. (30,000:1)

-check out the latest monitor reviews at http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

Take note of their "after calibration" contrast ratios for the monitors that are rated "very good".

Almost all are between 500:1 and 800:1 - that tells you something about what you need versus the marketing sizzle.

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How to find out what panel is used in a monitor.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/panels.php
-or-
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm

-change the filter to "Panel" and then type in IPS or PVA to find all IPS or PVA monitors

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A visual site to show what off angle views look like (also some other great info such as default and after calibration results):

Here's a view showing an eIPS panel versus a TN panel:
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&ma2=88&mo2=218&p2=2098&ph=8

A pop-up will appear - select "Continue"; do not select a country else it will take you away from the Face-To-Face comparison page.

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MORE reading..... The Anand LCD Thread

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

-read the first two posts in this thread; find the section where they recommend monitors for specific tasks

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Best two review sites:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

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Tip: budget for a hardware calibrator - many say they're not required but once you've used one you'll wonder why you waited. Essential for print matching as typically most people run their monitors too bright and the calibrator nails the brightness as well as colour balance.

TFT Central has a list of calibrators on their reviews page.

Until you get a hardware calibrator, this web site may help a bit:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

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........... End ...........

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NewsyL
OP NewsyL Veteran Member • Posts: 5,747
Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

Some monitors to consider (least expensive to most):

Dell 2209WA $279
....... e-IPS, 1680x1050, 22 inch, 99.5% sRGB, n/a

HP LP2275w $400 - 450
....... S-PVA, 1680x1050, 22 inch, 95% sRGB, 91% AdobeRGB

Dell 2408WFP ~$480 (may be discontinued soon)
....... S-PVA, 1920x1200, 24 inch, 99% sRGB, 98% AdobeRGB

NEC P221 $500 (10bit onboard LUT)
....... S-PVA, 1680x1050, 22 inch, 95% sRGB, 96% AdobeRGB

HP LP2475w $500 - 600
....... H-IPS, 1920x1200, 24 inch, 100% sRGB, 100% AdobeRGB

NEC LCD2490WUXi $1100 (12bit onboard LUT)
....... H-IPS A-TW (polarizer), 1920x1200, 24 inch, 95% sRGB, 79% AdobeRGB

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Coming soon:

LG W2220P
....... e-IPS?, 1920x1200, 22 inch, gamut?

Dell U2410f (same panel as HP LP2475w?)
....... H-IPS?, 1920x1200, 24 inch, gamut?

  • note: sRGB & AdobeRGB as per Prad.de calibrated results

  • note: all pricing approximate street value $USD

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Check out their reviews here:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

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..................................................................................

A visual site to show what off-angle views look like (also some other great info such as default and after calibration results):

Here's a view showing an eIPS panel versus a TN panel:
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&ma2=88&mo2=218&p2=2098&ph=8

(if you don't see a Dell 2209WA vs a Dell E228WFP, select those models)

A pop-up will appear - select "Continue"; do not select a country else it will
take you away from the Face-To-Face comparison page.

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........... End ...........

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

How about the new Samsung F2080 and F2380 using cPVA Panels. It looks like they're for sale at places like newegg.com, but I don't recall seeing anyone comment on using one yet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001333&Tpk=samsung%20f2080

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001332&Tpk=samsung%20f2380

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NewsyL
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Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

Jim Cockfield wrote:

How about the new Samsung F2080 and F2380 using cPVA Panels. It looks like they're for sale at places like newegg.com, but I don't recall seeing anyone comment on using one yet.

Hi Jim,

No reviews as yet from my preferred sites but I did find these.

http://samsungf2380.blogspot.com/

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034329391&postcount=34

Not too encouraging and with the F2380 being over $300, I'd prefer to get a Dell 2209WA at $279 even with the lower resolution. I'm still unsure of my thoughts for the 16:9 1920x1080 resolution vs the standard 16:10 1920x1200.

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NewsyL
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Re: Part II - NEW.... NEC EA231WMi

A new one due on USA shelves in mid-Sept 2009.

NEC EA231WMi ~$379 USD Mfg List
....... e-IPS(?), 1920x1080, 23 inch, ? sRGB, ? AdobeRGB
....... glossy panel ?
....... definitely IPS, likely e-IPS

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=a8f8336f-6f87-4065-b3ad-c2fa8204f2a0

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ppage
ppage Senior Member • Posts: 2,068
Re: Update - Part I - TFT LCD Monitor Info Summary

Thanks for this post and your many other very informative posts on LCDs, and especially the one that outlines the differences in panel technologies. My 23" Apple Cinema Display died last week and I wanted to replace it quickly with a less expensive monitor that would also be more Windows compatible. Your posts allowed me to make a decision must more quickly than I'd expected and I am now the happy owner of an HP LP2475W.

ppage

Tom_Bruno Senior Member • Posts: 1,388
Re: Part II - NEW.... NEC EA231WMi

This is a good and useful post. I wish the list of desirable monitors were longer, but it's hard to find everything you want in one unit.

I am currently gearing up for a new computer, and once again am shopping for monitors. I currently have a NEC 2490wuxi, which has everything I want -- almost. My big wish would be direct digital control, or DDC, which some of the newer panels apparently have.

The other is that unless I'm goofing up, the lowest I can get the luminance on the 2490wuxi is about 98 CD/m2. My prints have been too dark, and I'm trying to lower the monitor's luminance to correct it. I'm shooting for 90 CD/m2, the standard for CRT's, as per David Brooks' recent article:

http://www.shutterbug.com/techniques/digital_darkroom/0809prints/

So -- if at all possible, I wonder if anyone could add to this so far excellent list those monitors that sport DDC, plus a spec on the lowest calibrated luminance, or at least whether they can get to 90 CD/m2.

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markkuk Contributing Member • Posts: 733
Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

How about Philips 240PW9ES: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1236965482

According to the flatpanelshd database it uses the same H-IPS panel as HP 2475w but it's about 100€ cheaper (at least where I live).

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NewsyL
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Philips 240PW9EB 24 inch H-IPS

Yes, I have thought about adding this monitor to the group. Thanks for the reminder.

Philips 240PW9EB 24" H-IPS

I was looking at these last week. A local company who has a strong online store, had these up for sale. I missed the sale!! I think it was $475 CAD... ~ $430 USD.

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=39100&vpn=MT-PL-240PW9EB&manufacture=PHILIPS

Interesting comments section on this product page - scroll down to bottom.

There is one thread where they compare it to the HP LP2475w and another where issues with red/green uniformity is mentioned. Be warned.... gamers, not image hobbyists - some of their comments are naive and off the mark.

For comparison, that reseller has the HP LP2475w at $564.99 CAD versus the HP LP2475w at $689.30 CAD. There should be a similar margin in the USA or Europe.

There are also some notable comments re Philips customer support vs HP's. That and the better connectivity options on the HP may make it worthwhile to acquire the more expensive of the two.

The big question is the menu options that the Phillips offers. Is there enough there to make calibration a routine rather than a chore.

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NewsyL
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Re: Philips 240PW9EB 24 inch H-IPS

if you have not read the NCIX forums as yet, there seems to be a few too many reports of a lack of colour uniformity with this monitor.

People are reporting green shade on the left and a red shade on the right, much the same as with early HP LP2475w's.

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NewsyL
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adding - Dell U2410

Dell U2410
.... released to market Sept 2009
.... 24 inch H-IPS panel
.... 12bit internal processing (not a writeable 12bit internal LUT)
.... over a billion colours (vs 16.7 million typical)
.... 100% sRGB and 96% AdoberRGB colour space

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pcunite Senior Member • Posts: 1,398
Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

You list this monitor

HP LP2475w $500 - 600
....... H-IPS, 1920x1200, 24 inch, 100% sRGB, 100% AdobeRGB

Does this mean it is Wide Gamut? I only want sRGB color space.

NewsyL
OP NewsyL Veteran Member • Posts: 5,747
Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

pcunite wrote:

You list this monitor

HP LP2475w $500 - 600
....... H-IPS, 1920x1200, 24 inch, 100% sRGB, 100% AdobeRGB

Does this mean it is Wide Gamut? I only want sRGB color space.

Yes, it is Wide Gamut.

The LP2475W has a sRGB mode I believe - a menu option. You should check that out. The U2410 should have the same. Essentially a "pre-calibrated" sRGB viewing mode. I believe there are some comments on this here in one of the 2475w threads

The Dell 2209WA would be a nice image editing monitor for the sRGB space.

Keep an eye out for reviews on the NEC EA231WM and the LG W2220P as they'll be using a variant of the Dell's e-IPS panel and I'm thinking they will be 90%+ of the sRGB space.

Or you could do like others are doing and learn how to color manage your workspace with a color aware browser (FireFox) and image editor and live with a vibrant desktop. Stray thought.... I wonder if Windows7 will fix the non-color managed desktop?

I've read comments where gamers who don't like the wide gamut color space will flip into sRGB mode for gaming and back out to their calibrated space when not gaming.

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NewsyL
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update - LG W2220P e-IPS

LG W2220P
....... e-IPS?,
....... 22 inch, 1920x1200 1680x1050
....... gamut? % sRGB, % AdobeRGB

Latest news is that it is to be released in October. An FCC filing shows it as having a 1680x1050 panel.

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Simon Garrett Veteran Member • Posts: 6,707
Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

pcunite wrote:

You list this monitor

HP LP2475w $500 - 600
....... H-IPS, 1920x1200, 24 inch, 100% sRGB, 100% AdobeRGB

Does this mean it is Wide Gamut? I only want sRGB color space.

Yes, it's wide gamut.
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Simon Garrett Veteran Member • Posts: 6,707
Re: Part II - TFT LCD Monitors, Recommended Models

NewsyL wrote:

pcunite wrote:

You list this monitor

HP LP2475w $500 - 600
....... H-IPS, 1920x1200, 24 inch, 100% sRGB, 100% AdobeRGB

Does this mean it is Wide Gamut? I only want sRGB color space.

Yes, it is Wide Gamut.

The LP2475W has a sRGB mode I believe - a menu option.

According to reviews (e.g. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2275w.htm ) the sRGB mode isn't at all accurate.

I have the LP2475w and think it's great, but don't rely on the sRGB mode - you really need to calibrate it

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ptodd
ptodd Senior Member • Posts: 1,327
Re: update - LG W2220P e-IPS

NewsyL wrote:

LG W2220P
....... e-IPS?,
....... 22 inch, 1920x1200 1680x1050
....... gamut? % sRGB, % AdobeRGB

Latest news is that it is to be released in October. An FCC filing shows it as having a 1680x1050 panel.

Thanks for the heads up. Here's the source (it's in the users manual):

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=596359&fcc_id= 'BEJW2220PU'

I might add that I'm quite disappointed about that downgrade...

According to a recent article in PCPro magazine, monitors are likely to get more expensive in the near future.

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NewsyL
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Re: Dell U2410 links & reviews
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Re: Dell U2410 TFTCentral review
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NEC EA231WMi - Dell listing

$409 at Dell USA; no stock as I write this but it is now listed.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A2989270&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=39715&lid=1003769

However, checking the specs, Dell has listed the panel as a "TN" but gives viewing angles as +89/-89 (178°) which is defintely un-TN like.

Stay tuned....

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