D700 jaggies at 100%

Started Jul 12, 2009 | Discussions
scraffoto Forum Member • Posts: 99
D700 jaggies at 100%

Hi wondered if anyone can offer me any advice on this, I have just upgraded from a D300 to a D700 and used it yesterday for the first time, while looking at one of the shots at 100% can see jaggies on the mans glasses is this normal as I am pretty disappointed that a £2000 camera is doing this, especially as the anti aliasing filter on the D700 is descrbed as being pretty strong in most reviews.

George Bolton Contributing Member • Posts: 769
Pic not showing...

You might try using this url:

vagtanklan Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: D700 jaggies at 100%

You are surprised to see jagged edges at 100%?

Did I miss a memo or something?

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OP scraffoto Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: D700 jaggies at 100%

Sorry, never used the forum before and was unsure how to embed the image.

OP scraffoto Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: D700 jaggies at 100%

vagtanklan wrote:

You are surprised to see jagged edges at 100%?

Did I miss a memo or something?

This is why I have never posted before, sarcasm seems to be the oder of the day, and yes I am surprised to see them at 100% I'ver never seen them on any test carried out on the d700 using resolution charts where you would axpect to see aliasing, but hey ho just carry on with the sarcastic stuff its much more fun than a reasoned response.

George Bolton Contributing Member • Posts: 769
Re: D700 jaggies at 100%

scraffoto wrote:

Sorry, never used the forum before and was unsure how to embed the image.

No appology necessary. It happened to me once.

All I did was open a new window and entered the url you had for your pic. When the web site came up, I right-clicked on you picture, selected properties and got the url...

At any rate, I've gone back and tried to find one of my D700 pictures that show what you are getting. So far I haven't found any unless I zoom to 200%.
I'm viewing them in their RAW state with View NX.

George

Tim O'Connor
Tim O'Connor Veteran Member • Posts: 5,668
Wouldnt expect to see it, unless the AA filter has been removed.

It is a bit strange to see it on a camera with an AA filter - unless the filter is very very weak.

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pforsell
pforsell Veteran Member • Posts: 4,258
Sharpening set too high.

Reduce the sharpening a notch or two. Any image will get jaggy when you sharpen too aggressively.

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OP scraffoto Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: Sharpening set too high.

Tim O'Connor wrote:

It is a bit strange to see it on a camera with an AA filter - unless the filter is very very weak.

Thats what I thought, 200% yes 100% I would not expect it.

pforsell wrote:

Reduce the sharpening a notch or two. Any image will get jaggy when you sharpen too aggressively.

There is no sharpening apllied, that is a raw file converted with no sharpening applied.

Sander Meurs Veteran Member • Posts: 3,834
what software are you using?

Hi there,

I've seen similar jaggies on a few files of my D700, but only when I was comparing the output of several different RAW conversion trial programs.
Edges that were jagged in PhaseOne Capture 1 were fine & smooth in Capture NX2.

What software are you using to view the file?

Sander

pluton Veteran Member • Posts: 3,463
Re: Sharpening set too high.

I started having a problem with the sawtooth edges on sharp, diagonal lines in the photos when I switched from a D2Xs to a D3. I'd never seen them on my D200 or D2Xs. But I was noticing the problem in prints...A3 and even 8.5x11" and smaller prints...sometimes really bad. I tend to discount such effects when seen on my computer screen, since I don't consider a computer screen a desirable means of display. I found that by changing the [limited]sharpening settings in Lightroom(basically eliminating the horrible looking "print sharpening" function), I have eliminated them in all but the most gigantic enlargements....and I don't make such large enlargements except for experimental purposes. I think it is one of the costs of moving to a lower resolution sensor. D700X anyone???
--
-KB-

OP scraffoto Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: Sharpening set too high.

pluton wrote:

I started having a problem with the sawtooth edges on sharp, diagonal lines in the photos when I switched from a D2Xs to a D3. I'd never seen them on my D200 or D2Xs. But I was noticing the problem in prints...A3 and even 8.5x11" and smaller prints...sometimes really bad. I tend to discount such effects when seen on my computer screen, since I don't consider a computer screen a desirable means of display. I found that by changing the [limited]sharpening settings in Lightroom(basically eliminating the horrible looking "print sharpening" function), I have eliminated them in all but the most gigantic enlargements....and I don't make such large enlargements except for experimental purposes. I think it is one of the costs of moving to a lower resolution sensor. D700X anyone???
--
-KB-

I think you must be right, I cant find these on any other images from the same day, I think it must be the fact that it is a highlight area bordered by shadow that is causing this effect, I tried using ACR and also NX2 it appeared in both. I tried resizing using alien skin blow up and that eliminated them. I have looked at loads of D300 files at 100% and even in similar conditions cant see the same effect. I think I'll email Nikon UK and see what their response is, I only moved from the D300 to D700 for its high ISO performance, IQ wise there isnt that much to choose IMHO.

J Mankila
J Mankila Veteran Member • Posts: 4,234
I have a request...

scraffoto wrote:

..... I think it must be the fact that it is a highlight area bordered by shadow that is causing this effect, I tried using ACR and also NX2 it appeared in both....

I'd like to know a lot more about the subject and I'm sure there are plenty of forum participants here who could be of assistance, so could you post the same crop again, processed in all the raw converters you've tried?

To me it looks like a curious sharpening phenomenon, even though you ruled it out in your earlier post. Perhaps some converters apply demoisaic routines that inherently apply sharpening (as we understand it). Have these jaggies always appeared along with blown out highlights?

We should hope Iliah Borg notices this thread and offers his help...

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regards
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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,310
On SONY A900

Hi.

On my A900 I some times sees it to. I recently tested the Zeiss 24-70 and my own SONY 70-200 against my own cheap Minolta 24-105 and found that the Zeiss and SONY 70-200 picture did not show any Jaggies whereas the minolta 24-105 picture showed Jaggies. So I think the lens have a lot of the fault. A good lens and you wont see it? Maybe?

P.s my A700 also does it some times even with the 70-200. Last year when I was shooting formula one in Hungary I saw

Jaggies especially on the engine cover of the Mclaren Mercedes-Benz cars(silver/red colors, highlight area).

Kind regards

David Bo
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Jark89 Regular Member • Posts: 428
Re: D700 jaggies at 100%

Was this shot RAW? If so, which converter did you use? I also experienced "jaggies" on the Canon side...when I had my 40D. If I used DPP, there were jaggies. But with ACR, the jaggies were either gone, or very very faint.
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Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 28,803
Re: I have a request...

Without seeing a NEF, I can say only this: cameras do not produce juggies, wrong / over processing does. Each time I see somebody accusing cameras in something I shrug.

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J Mankila
J Mankila Veteran Member • Posts: 4,234
Thanks, Iliah. And another request for the OP... :o)

Iliah Borg wrote:

Without seeing a NEF, I can say only this: cameras do not produce juggies, wrong / over processing does. Each time I see somebody accusing cameras in something I shrug.

Thank you for your insight!

To the opening poster's defence I might phrase the problem like this: the less dense the sensor is and the less effective the aa-filter is the easier it is to produce images potentially problematic for the majority of raw converters (with a given lens). Besides, the lower the pixel density the more readily apparent the artifacting will be in the print. But blaming the camera was a hasty decision on Scraffoto's part, I agree...

Dear Scraffoto, could you provide Iliah with the original NEF, please, so that we could benefit from his experience regarding raw files (should he oblige, of course)?

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regards
Janne Mankila, Finland
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John Motts Veteran Member • Posts: 5,842
Re: D700 jaggies at 100%

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but those jaggies at 100% are completely inconsequential.

Your pictures are not designed for viewing at 100%, unless you are reducing the file size anyway for web viewing. My advice is to forget it - this is nothing to worry about.

OP scraffoto Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: I have a request...

Iliah Borg wrote:

Without seeing a NEF, I can say only this: cameras do not produce juggies, wrong / over processing does. Each time I see somebody accusing cameras in something I shrug.

Right, I must confess I have had a good look at the file in various software packages and NX2 pointed me to the culprit, the sharpening setting in the custome profiles was set to something other than zero, I set it to zero in NX2 and the jaggies dissappeared, I have since found this option in the menu system and set it to zero. I was actually not aware that the NEF files could be affected in this way, but its obviously some form of embeded setting in the NEF file otherwise NX2 could not retrospectively correct it.

I apologise for my ignorance of this. It does show to me the value of Capture NX2 as no other product seems to be able to manipulate NEF images as well as this.

John Motts Veteran Member • Posts: 5,842
Re: I have a request...

scraffoto wrote:

Right, I must confess I have had a good look at the file in various software packages and NX2 pointed me to the culprit, the sharpening setting in the custome profiles was set to something other than zero, I set it to zero in NX2 and the jaggies dissappeared, I have since found this option in the menu system and set it to zero.

Please note that your files will still need some sharpening, even if it's applied after the RAW processing. But you should apply sharpening to enhance the picture overall at a level to make the final image look appropriately sharp.

Your criteria for applying sharpening shouldn't be just the avoidance of some very slight jaggies that would only be visible on a four foot wide print when viewed from about a foot away.

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