K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Started Jun 28, 2009 | Discussions
LSD Regular Member • Posts: 102
K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Hight ISO NR default was Medium
Bumped it to High. Kicks in at ISO 800.
Also set contrast to 0, and sharpness to 0 (they were both at +1)
I think now ISO 800 is usable.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29655595@N04/sets/72157620537118689/

Stig Vidar Hovland Senior Member • Posts: 1,744
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

DNG files of ISO800, ISO1600 and ISO3200 is on http://download.heime.org/foto/Lucaci as imgp9455, imgp9458, imgp9459 and imgp9460

OP LSD Regular Member • Posts: 102
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Thanks again for hosting!

Frederick Stewart Senior Member • Posts: 1,125
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Are you saying all previous posted images were at a default medium NR ?

huqedato Regular Member • Posts: 376
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

The same as K20D. Nothing special.
Disappointment.

I already have a K20 so I will not buy the new k7. I mainly work on nikon d700 and I am very satisfied.

Too bad... for a 20 years pentaxian.
--
~ errant ~

awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 13,263
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

huqedato wrote:

The same as K20D. Nothing special.
Disappointment.
I already have a K20 so I will not buy the new k7. I mainly work on
nikon d700 and I am very satisfied.

Too bad... for a 20 years pentaxian.

But you didn't learn anything....Pentax do step upgrades.

the k10d was the body update better buffer AF etc
the k20d was the sensor upgrade
the K7d is again a body change faster AF (we hope) and higher FPS

You wont see any major sensor improvement till the next release

TO have expected anything different was just hysteria

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~ errant ~

Mind you there was never anything wrong with the existing sensor that a bit of sensor read out tweaking wouldn't cure. (This I believe has been done).

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jamesm007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,663
Thanks LSD

You guys might think I am being a fan-boy but the sensor is improved 'a lot' over the K20D in noise. This shot so kindly given by LSD was a jpeg at iso3200, (still in bright color mode?) and its clean, try that with your K20D. Look at the black patch, if you did it with your K20D you would see noise, this pic is clean I did not touch it, only re-sized for the web. Also below it is a pic from the Nikon D90 at iso3200, its part of a test pic from a pro review. Do to the nature of noise its valid to view noise in the colors and to compare with the K-7; but not colors, only noise.

This is the Nikon D90 compared to the K-7 that has almost 15mp, the K-7 is going to be super at high ISO, clean and lots of detail. Some of you guys are not evaluating it right IMO. Its not the same as the K20D.

In the Nikon iso3200 pic it looks kinda blotchy and lifeless because of the strong NR needed to make it clean (in camera D90) the K-7 is still detailed and sharp. Now the last pic is the iso3200 DNG RAW from the K-7 with no NR applied I just used ACR and AE to make the jpeg with no NR or any PP at all this is as noisy as it gets and shows all the noise from the K-7 at iso3200. Its much better than the D90, K20D or any APS sensor I have ever seen!

With out doubt the K-7 is improved over the K20D and is very good, and I guess as far as APS sensors go its superb. Pentax/Samsung (Samsung is bigger than Nikon and Canon put together) rebuilt it from the ground up and did a great job. Don't think for a second Samsung would put out a second class sensor, they want to be a player and they have the resources to make a winner.

K-7 RAW file no NR at all anyplace this is all the noise the K-7 has at iso3200

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jamesm007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,663
Re: Thanks LSD

Oh btw the first pic is the Nikon D90, if I needed to tell

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Robgo2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,050
Re: Thanks LSD

James,

Thanks for posting these samples and for your comments as well. From what I see here, the K-7's IQ is stellar, and hysteria about high ISO noise seems misplaced. If properly exposed, ISO 3200 should be more than adequate. Elsewhere, I have seen ISO 1600 test shots that are really very good. If these are indeed representative samples of what the camera can do, reviewers should be gobsmacked, although some of them are congenitally incapable of lavishing too much praise upon Pentax.

Rob

Henrik Melander Contributing Member • Posts: 542
Re: Thanks LSD

Realy great colours from that K-7 is all I have to say, and nice noise charts. I will enjoy using mine in low light thats for sure.

And if you dont like noise, get an old CRT monitor, brings out the best of all your pictures.

Will enjoy watching the pictures when I get home to my CRT monitor.

Chris Ventura Regular Member • Posts: 327
D700 - Smear it?

You know, all this talk I hear about noise is kinda odd. I have shot, and owned Nikon and Canon, both fantastic cameras. With that being said, I took 4 images of the exact same subject from Imagine-resource - They were the K20D, Nikon D300, Nikon D700, and Canon 50D.

I printed them all out at 100% crop and compared the noise giving the images to people to judge image quality.

The ISO was at 1600 and then 3200.

4 people picked the K20D, 4 picked the D700 as the best image. What I noticed in the photos was how much detail is BLURRED by both the D700 and D300. Please fill me in. If I wanted to blur my pictures to reduce noise, I don't need a camera to do that. I really don't understand this noise talk, and how "BAD" the K20D is. Maybe my copy is fantastic.. I will keep the detail.

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,152
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

huqedato wrote:

The same as K20D. Nothing special.
Disappointment.

No disappointment from me, that looks pretty darn good. Somewhere between the K20d and 5d Mk1 as I was hoping. My K20d was bad at ISO 3200, blue horizontal "stripes" (HPN) through the shadows. This looks significantly better, I do see a bit of HPN, but it is significantly better.

I already have a K20 so I will not buy the new k7. I mainly work on
nikon d700 and I am very satisfied.

Good for you.

Eric
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Robgo2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,050
Re: D700 - Smear it?

If I wanted to blur my pictures to

reduce noise, I don't need a camera to do that. I really don't
understand this noise talk, and how "BAD" the K20D is. Maybe my copy
is fantastic.. I will keep the detail.

How right you are, Chris. I will take some unobtrusive noise with my detail any day over no noise and smoothed detail. Hell, with film, grain is often considered a positive aesthetic element. People need to keep in mind that we are talking about ISO 3200 here. Not so long ago, that was considered an impossibility, yet now we have an APS-C camera that does it pretty darn well.

Rob

_vlad Senior Member • Posts: 2,380
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Eric I do not share your optimism. I did some very quick and absolutely unscientific comparison between k7 (processed from RAW) and K20 shot capturing this developed k7 picture from monitor screen. EV were roughly comparable f3,2/1/250s vs 1/6,3/1/125sm k20 shot was defocused to minimize screen horizontal stripes - otherwise both are shot at 3200 ISO to raw, identical processing in Lightroom (i.e. no NR, sharpening default 25/1/25/0.
Though not comparable directly it is interesting to see them side by side.
Judge yourself.

Vlad

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wll Veteran Member • Posts: 4,821
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

From every thing I've seen it looks like iso3200 is usable and depending on the situation maybe iso6400

This thing looks very good to me.

wll

LightBug Senior Member • Posts: 2,398
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

vlad wrote:

Eric I do not share your optimism. I did some very quick and
absolutely unscientific comparison between k7 (processed from RAW)
and K20 shot capturing this developed k7 picture from monitor screen.
EV were roughly comparable f3,2/1/250s vs 1/6,3/1/125sm k20 shot was
defocused to minimize screen horizontal stripes - otherwise both are
shot at 3200 ISO to raw, identical processing in Lightroom (i.e. no
NR, sharpening default 25/1/25/0.
Though not comparable directly it is interesting to see them side by
side.
Judge yourself.

Vlad

If it's unscientific, then no real conclusion can be drawn.

Joey

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viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,152
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Thanks for the comparison there, based on that they look fairly close. Comparing to some of my old K20d shots they are close, but I don't have the K20d any more, but I think I recall horizontal pattern noise much more visible at ISO 1600 and a enough at ISO 3200 to keep me from using it. I actually use ISO 3200 more on the K-2000 vs K20d because there is less pattern to the noise, but probably more total noise.

What I really hope for is a reduction in HPN, but I still see it in samples, the 2 ISO 3200 samples in another thread in a link to a blog somewhere both showed it clearly in the darks, but ISO 3200 is still useful in a well exposed picture that isn't too dark. The 5d also has HPN in the shadows, just less than the K20d by about 1-1.5 stops (it is full frame, this is expected).

I don't really expect the K-7 to have much better image quality (I have been hoping for 1/3rd stop is all), and a bit better dynamic range would be nice, but I am buying the K-7 for the features. I like that it feels like the K20d should have been. I want the respectable live view, the movie mode, the composition feature, the level, the mag alloy body, etc. I am sure whatever camera replaces the K-7 will address shortcomings with the K-7.

Eric
--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable

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Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)
See my PPG Shots: http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/erictastad (6/5/09)

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_vlad Senior Member • Posts: 2,380
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Yes I absolutely agree - this was quick and limited comparison - however shooting similar color patches with similar EV values and identical ISO settings and development parameters gives you at least "something" to compare.

Vlad

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_vlad Senior Member • Posts: 2,380
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

I hope that the High Iso performance wouldn't be a step backward. So far K7 did not convince me - those black blotches in blue patch resembles "good" old CCD sensor

Compared to K20 the noise is finer but more visible - very sensitive to sharpening. RAW color noise is way above K20 - based on DNGs from OP.

Vlad

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jamesm007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,663
Re: K-7 High ISO NR (pics)

Don't agree I measured with Noise Ninja PRo a color patch RAW/DNG taken with my K20D and it had a much higher overall noise figure than the K-7, in both Lum and Croma noise.

I don't know whats happening, but with Mr.LCD great DNG files and ACR 5.4 viewed on equal terms with the K20D, the K-7 is always cleaner. Although I believe your results. Its going to take some pro reviews (I also consider Gordon B in that category) to set us straight

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