K7 Full review

Started Jun 19, 2009 | Discussions
Wallace Ross
Wallace Ross Senior Member • Posts: 2,128
The review was OK but his knowledge of Pentax looks like he Googled it

The review was OK but his knowledge of Pentax looks like he Googled it. I actually think I don't care about the reviews as long as the image quality is at par with the K20 I will be getting mine.

Pennyanne Senior Member • Posts: 1,933
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

I read with interest that the reviewer felt there was a yellow colour cast on jpegs.

This is something I really notice now, looking back on many of my Pentax shots, particularly my istds (at the time I was told it was the lens). I also notice it on this forum on many shots.

Also, being the devil's advocate again; doesn't the k7 suppposedly have a range of ways to allow for greater DR? That being so, why the need for underexposure to 'preserve highlights'? This makes the greater EV range of this camera a necessity, rather than a wonderful improvement!!

rather than concerning myself about whether the reviewer can actually take photos or not, I am more interested in the actual IQ. I couldn't find the exif of the cat shot, so it may be high iso, but the noise is atrocious on that shot. There is little detail in the white chest fur, Or the CA at the skyline on the clothesline shot. Surely that is of more importance than whether a picture of a cat is good enough for a Pentax camera?

I also want to like this camera, but not so much that I am going to defend it unseen, unheld, unused.

In defense of the reviewer, I cannot help but feel he's in a better position to judge than most of you who are blindly defending a camera you have not even seen yet, let alone used
--
Pennyanne

 Pennyanne's gear list:Pennyanne's gear list
Nikon 1 AW1
Jorgen E Senior Member • Posts: 1,730
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

Richard Smals wrote:

I for one was tempted by the D300 at some time but
the size of that thing was holding me back, the K20D is as big i can
tolerate.

I'm the other way around, since I use quite a few big Nikon lenses, like the 14-24/2.8 and the PC-E 24/3.5. It's hard enough carrying and using them on a D300 and D3, but using a camera so small that I can't grip it with all five fingers, and so light that all balance disappears, would be a nightmare. The tilt shift lenses wouldn't even fit on such a small body. That's one reason why Nikon pro bodies sort of have to be large -- they must support pro lenses. Pentax doesn't have that "problem". At least not yet.

But, it's good for Pentax if they've found a niche with their small bodies. As far as I can tell, many Pentax users seem to like their bodies small(ish). But I'm not so sure they would like it after a day carrying a 14-24/2.8 around on their K7's...

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Take care,
Jorgen

Probere necesse est.....

Richard Smals
Richard Smals Senior Member • Posts: 1,782
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

Jorgen E wrote:

Richard Smals wrote:

I for one was tempted by the D300 at some time but
the size of that thing was holding me back, the K20D is as big i can
tolerate.

But, it's good for Pentax if they've found a niche with their small
bodies. As far as I can tell, many Pentax users seem to like their
bodies small(ish). But I'm not so sure they would like it after a day
carrying a 14-24/2.8 around on their K7's...

I can see your personal reason, but i use the Bigma (sigma 50 -500) on the K20D + BG with ease. I saw no benefit in an even larger body! The 1 kilo 14-24 is not that heavy, i have several lenses way beyond the kilo and use them even on the little K-m. So the K-7 will not be problem even with heavier lenses, at least not for me.

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Bye4now

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I have the deepest respect for all those people who like me.

Chris Strobel Senior Member • Posts: 1,514
Re: Those are by far the worst images

Mousehill wrote:

Some people still believe that it's the camera that makes a good
photo....

Give it enough time and cameras WILL make good photos.Just go to your favorite park, beach, mountains, etc., stick your camera on a tripod, stand, top of car, etc., dial in your preferd artist style 'Ansel Adams, Cartier Bresson, Dorthea Lange, David Muench, etc., and the camera does the rest.......ehh.........make that your cell phone camera
--
A few of my shots:Optimized for Sony Artisan CRT
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/77798595/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/54638350/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/53748575/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/94669213/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/54649538/original

nosnoop Senior Member • Posts: 1,694
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

Pennyanne wrote:

In defense of the reviewer, I cannot help but feel he's in a better
position to judge than most of you who are blindly defending a
camera you have not even seen yet, let alone used

I don't think people here are "blindly defending", they are merely pointing out some blatant factual error or ignorance on the reviewer's part. Like battery grip being the first for Pentax, or listing "tough competition" as a "Con" for the camera - I mean "Huh?"

rgmwa Senior Member • Posts: 1,970
Poor quality review...

Looks like he rushed through this one to get it out ahead of the camera's release. He's made some sloppy mistakes along the way (obviously didn't do his homework). Overall his opinion is fairly neutral, but a newcomer to DSLR's wouldn't be too excited about the K-7 based on this article. Hopefully he reviews other brands with the same superficial style.
--
Robert
rgmwa

Wallace Ross
Wallace Ross Senior Member • Posts: 2,128
Re: Poor quality review...

If you sort rankings the K-7 comes in 43rd. Wow I'm going to cancel my order and try to pick out one of the better ones. Oh and they say the K20D scores higher on features so wow the K-7 must be a step backwards. Of course I'm kidding I just get annoyed that they rank it so low against other cameras using what appears to depend on the mood of the reviewer.

I'm glad that there is so little difference in final performance of the upper end cameras so I can concentrate on usability.

zakk9 Senior Member • Posts: 1,196
How come anyone with a computer...

... have become qualified as reviewers?

I'm not a Pentax user, at least not yet (the K-7 may change that), and I've never tried the K-7. Still, only by gathering information on the internet, I would be able to write a more informative review about this camera than the reviewer has.

He fails to mention the real value of some of the most important features of the K-7, and the fact that Pentax offers more primes below 100mm than any other camera manufacturer (and they are all image stabilised on the K-7, none of Nikon's or Canon's counterparts are). Since Canikon have more zooms, they must be better, right?

The K-7 will probably help expand Pentax' niche in the market, but it needs help from reviewers who can see beyond the mainstream thinking of the main players, and see the value of this camera and the system behind it without using the 50D and D300 as standards. Those are both good cameras and solid performers in almost every way, but they are hardly innovative. The K-7 is.

Edit: And the sample photos... the portrait of the woman isn't even in focus. Part of her dress is, but not her face. I can't even read the EXIF data of the samples. Can anybody else? What's the point of hiding that in a camera review?

-- hide signature --

Jorgen, my name is Jorgen

Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 31,831
Re: Those are by far the worst images

MajStriker wrote:

Mousehill wrote:

that I have seen from any photographer!

How on earth can a person why doesn't know how to shoot a well
exposed and well lit subject, with good light (and composition)
review a camera?
The images don't go behind plain pointing and shooting...... the
reviewer should stick to writing about P&S camera's

Mike
--
--
Capturing time that will never be the same

http://www.mmfoto.nl
http://www.pentaximaging.nl

What the heck, man? Are you really trying to be serious?
Let's take a look at some samples that DPreview have posted...these
are from the K20D samples:

Now THOSE pictures are pure point and shoot type of pictures. At
least this reviewer's pictures had some artistic appeal to them. And
either you haven't been perusing this forum very long or just don't
look at other people's pictures very often because I've seen far far
worse here.

Yes, but these people who posted these were not touting that they were doing a review. A reviewer should at least have some photographic ability for us to take their review seriously.

Also, Mousehill is a very talented photographer, one of the best here, and he has been here for MANY years.

The underexposed pictures is a conscious choice by Pentax no doubt
(see a recent poster's thread on the K20D) but that doesn't mean a
user has to accept that. Nor do you or I.

If Pentax decides the their default exposure is to preseve highlights, then you either accept that or go to another brand. It is not the reviewers decision but Pentax's and if it is shown that that is the way they do it, then the reviewer should say that this is the way Pentax has as their default exposure but not necessarily criticise it. It is one thing to point it out, it is another to harp on about it. It is also only the reviewers opinion and not the opinion of Pentax and many here that also agree with it. Many here do not agree with Canon's propensity for blown highlights but we just accept that that is the way Canon does things and we get on with it and do not criticise it. It's neither right or wrong, just different. It is a simple decision, either go to another brand or use the exposure compensation.

When someone reviews a
camera they have a right to criticize (or praise) the jpg performance
because let's be honest...most people will use the jpg. Yes several
will go with the RAW some of the time but mostly they use the JPG and
that's what you have to judge is the default. No one has the time to
test five or six different jpg settings as 8-10 different ISO
settings etc etc. It would take forever.

No, that is how you see it, not the vast majority who like Pentax.

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Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 31,831
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

nosnoop wrote:

Pennyanne wrote:

In defense of the reviewer, I cannot help but feel he's in a better
position to judge than most of you who are blindly defending a
camera you have not even seen yet, let alone used

I don't think people here are "blindly defending", they are merely
pointing out some blatant factual error or ignorance on the
reviewer's part. Like battery grip being the first for Pentax, or
listing "tough competition" as a "Con" for the camera - I mean "Huh?"

Yep, and when a supposed "reviewer" baltantly get's things wrong you wonder how much credence you can put into their opinion.

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Brian Thomas Contributing Member • Posts: 578
WHO says that they have a "full production" unit ?-- not the author!

I didn't find the claim of having a "full production" camera in the body of the text. Only in the links to the following pages and the sub-titles. In other words the claim is probably being made by the editor rather than the author (assuming they are not the same person).

This claim to have a "full production" or alternately "full firmware" is also made as part of an obvious "Get Googles Attention" scheme -- popular wisdom has long been that Google ranks words in links higher than regular text. See how the editor tries out different possible search combinations in the links below instead of more sensibly sticking with one way of saying it:

  • Page 1: Pentax K7 DSLR review - Features

  • Page 2: Pentax K-7 full production model review - Design

  • Page 3: Pentax K7 full firmware review - Performance

  • Page 4: Pentax K-7 review - Image Quality & Value for Money

  • Page 5: Pentax K7 full first review - review specifications / specs

  • Page 6: Pentax K7 DSLR review Verdict

-- hide signature --

That said, everyone here agrees that the review sets new standards for rushed-off sloppiness. I don't know if this has been mentioned here, but what is this about:

?> ?> The long-standing Nikon D300, for example, has a 51-point AF system that sounds frightfully better - at least on paper.

-- Why does 51-point AF sound better than 77-point AF ?

--

------- Too bad because if the review had any credibility I'd take it as a good review because it says that ISO 3200 is so usable.

"The Pentax K-7 provides rather exceptional image quality in terms of noise"
--
Brian

http://rivertext.smugmug.com/

Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 31,831
Re: Those are by far the worst images

KALEL33 wrote:

Mousehill wrote:

that I have seen from any photographer!

How on earth can a person why doesn't know how to shoot a well
exposed and well lit subject, with good light (and composition)
review a camera?
The images don't go behind plain pointing and shooting...... the
reviewer should stick to writing about P&S camera's

How on earth have you been here almost 30 weeks and can say that.

30 weeks? Like the reviewer under scrutiny, I think you should get your facts straight. Mike Mousehill has been here for 5 years and would be considered as one of the finest on this forum. Here is his first post back in 2004:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=11474199

I see horrible photos on almost a daily basis from DSLR shooters here.

None of them are touting to be a "reviewer" though. If you are going to be a "reviewer", then I would have thought that they:
a) have an idea of photography

b) at least know that Pentax likes to preserve highlights and it is not "underexposure"

c) know that this is NOT the first Pentax DSLR to offer a battery grip, in fact the very firat Pentax DSLR, the *ist D had a battery grip option!!!!

I even seen a guy griping about the AF of his Canon camera and later
found out he just pointed the camera towards the area and expected
the thing he wanted in focus to be in focus. He didn't even use the
viewfinder and wasn't using live view.

Was he a reviewer?

Obviously you need to look around this site and see the horrendous
shots from people that bought a $1500 DSLR, expecting to get pro
shots without any need to learn about photography or the camera.

Are they all touting themselves as reviewers?

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Benoz
Benoz Veteran Member • Posts: 6,238
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

Gary Martin wrote:

His other main complaint is the price point. The Price should be more
in line with the Nikon D90 which is the true competition for this
camera.

Not true, the K-7 is a higher spec camera than the D90: (...) The K-7 is
more of a competitor to the D300 and Canon 50D. Pentax doesn't really
have a direct competitor to the D90.

Sorry to desagree but to someone looking for a first camera the k-7
competes with the D90.
The D300 is a lot bigger and bigger means better to a lot of people.
Of course that specs wise it is more like the d300 but with movies.

Someone looking for a 'first camera' is not the target market of the
K-7, that's what we call 'entry-level' and the K-7 is not an
entry-level product. The K-7 has dual control wheels and lots of
exterior controls and options for advanced photographers and
professionals. I agree that the D90 has more appeal to the entry
level market. The K-7 is way too much camera for a beginner.

If someone is looking for a 'first camera' and happens to go to 'compare products' of the reviewers site would prefer to buy (based on rating) just about ANY Canon or Nikon before the K7...lol!

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Ben.
Constructive criticisms can be free lessons.
I welcome and appreciate them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/benoz/

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KALEL33 Senior Member • Posts: 2,797
Re: Those are by far the worst images

Lance B wrote:

Obviously you need to look around this site and see the horrendous
shots from people that bought a $1500 DSLR, expecting to get pro
shots without any need to learn about photography or the camera.

Are they all touting themselves as reviewers?

If he had said that they were the worst photos he has seen in a review then you'd have an argument. He said they were the worst photos he has ever seen "from any photographer", not just a reviewer.....any photographer.

So are you backing up his statement that the photos in the review surpass all photos that are on this website? Because that was his assertion, not based on the person being a reviewer.

KALEL33 Senior Member • Posts: 2,797
Re: Those are by far the worst images

Should have read "do not surpass"

copejorg1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,626
77-point AF?!

Brian Thomas wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned here, but what is this about:

?> ?> The long-standing Nikon D300, for example, has a 51-point AF system that sounds frightfully better - at least on paper.

For one thing, because 77-point AF doesn't exist! The K-7 has a 77-zone AE meter (to compare with the D300's 1005-pixel RGB AE meter), but has "only" an 11-point AF sensor to compare to the D300's 51-point AF sensor.

Greg

alanschamber Senior Member • Posts: 1,200
Re: Those are by far the worst images

MajStriker wrote:

Mousehill wrote:

that I have seen from any photographer!

How on earth can a person why doesn't know how to shoot a well
exposed and well lit subject, with good light (and composition)
review a camera?
The images don't go behind plain pointing and shooting...... the
reviewer should stick to writing about P&S camera's

Mike
--
--
Capturing time that will never be the same

http://www.mmfoto.nl
http://www.pentaximaging.nl

What the heck, man? Are you really trying to be serious?
Let's take a look at some samples that DPreview have posted...these
are from the K20D samples:

Now THOSE pictures are pure point and shoot type of pictures. At
least this reviewer's pictures had some artistic appeal to them. And
either you haven't been perusing this forum very long or just don't
look at other people's pictures very often because I've seen far far
worse here.

Yes, I've seen worse here. And surely most of us also take worse also, and just delete them so no one sees them. So what??? Those photos are still garbage. And the DPR photos of the K20, at least were trying the camera in different situations, to see how it worked: try not to blow highlights, retain details in black, and other things. I cannot say that about those photos this guy published.

The underexposed pictures is a conscious choice by Pentax no doubt
(see a recent poster's thread on the K20D) but that doesn't mean a
user has to accept that. Nor do you or I. When someone reviews a
camera they have a right to criticize (or praise) the jpg performance
because let's be honest...most people will use the jpg. Yes several
will go with the RAW some of the time but mostly they use the JPG and
that's what you have to judge is the default. No one has the time to
test five or six different jpg settings as 8-10 different ISO
settings etc etc. It would take forever.

Are you serious??? That would be true for Canikon, since most of them think they are a pro, and don't even know how to even process files, or why is it better to have 12 bits of color information, rather than 8. Oh, yeah... sure. Those with a Nikon D300 shouldn't know it because it makes wonderful jpgs... don't be silly. It would NEVER be better than a good RAW file (close? yes... but even if you have to change the WB only 200 K, the difference would still be there). And no... most people who would complain about the IQ of a camera, already know that the best is only achieved with RAW.

And.. if it takes forever to review fully a camera: I'd prefer that, rather than a stupid thing this guy have done, that it actually didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know from another sites. I think it was actually more an opinion, rather than any technical detail, even.

So please... be serious.

Alan.
--
Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm - Frank Zappa
http://www.schamberalan.blogspot.com

alanschamber Senior Member • Posts: 1,200
Re: Using a P&S doesn't require a photographer...

Richard Smals wrote:

Mousehill wrote:

The images don't go behind plain pointing and shooting...... the
reviewer should stick to writing about P&S camera's

Mike

Indeed those samples look like (ahum)...

But what's wrong with a P&S?

If he used the Pentax optio W60, he got more like these
images....shot by me from today. Off course only the cam is doing
this I was just holding the thingiie

I'm loving the W60
--
Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm - Frank Zappa
http://www.schamberalan.blogspot.com

Robgo2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,050
Re: This review was fine. Give this guy a break.

His other main complaint is the price point. The Price should be more
in line with the Nikon D90 which is the true competition for this
camera. 1,299 might be cheap enough for the Pentax faithful but when
other people are shopping around and they see the d90 in the 1,000
range it is a lot tougher sale. Especially given all the high praise
for the D90's image quality.

The K-7 competes with the both D90 and the D300, and, as I see it, is a phenomenal value by any standard. When people look closely at its features, build quality and size, the competition may actually look a bit anemic in comparison.

Rob

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