Thread closed or what ?? Maybe to me only ? Locked

Started May 27, 2009 | Discussions
This thread is locked.
Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,196
Thanks, and not feeling that good...

G. Gray wrote:

Thanks for the heads up.

You are quite welcome.

I hope that you are feeling better.

Thank you for the well wishes.

Plum (or is it plumb?) miserable right now. I just got in from doing a little light work on the house (the sparrows colonized the holes the woodpeckers made). I didn't do anything heavy with the right hand, just lifting little 5 inch blocks of wood, but the exertion on the rest of the body made the right arm swell up in the cast.

I hate casts! This is five months in the dang things.

-- hide signature --

Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

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DigitalMaven Senior Member • Posts: 1,904
DPReview.com is hosted in Ireland. - n/t
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When a hammer is your only tool, all problems begin to look like nails.

Bill Randall
Bill Randall Forum Pro • Posts: 21,969
Re: DPR staff responses not very enlightening

Phil Askey wrote:

Bill Randall wrote:

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

If you are trying to tell me something I must admit I don't understand what it is. Should I assume you had a problem with someone in WSSA and therefore you punished all 300 plus members?

If you did have a problem with one member, how do you think the rest of us felt when you locked us out with no indication as to why?

As has been stated many times on Dpreview, you can do what you want - it is your property. But remember, what you do reflects on your character as individuals and as a company.

I want to add that you may have had a valid reason for what you did. The point is few if any know what it was. To us your action was a slap in the face.

-- hide signature --

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

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Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,196
Re: Bob, in this case...

bobn2 wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

There is a lot of thread locking/pulling going on. It is very
difficult to fathom out the motivation behind the DPR editorial
policy.

In this case, it's not so difficult. Michael Anderson ("Jim Carney",
"rander3127", "Jonathan Demarais", and "Apochromatic") has been on a
major trolling spree since Friday.

A bit more, here.

There are a lot of people around who've come back after being banned
for one reason or another. I don't know this Michale Anderson
(incidentally, I'd be interested to know the techniques you use for
troll recognition, you seem very sure these people are who you say
they are)

Normally, I use some pretty sophisticated grammatical analysis software, built for entirely different purposes. And that flagged all Michael's accounts.

But Michael is an especially dull witted fellow, and his second and third accounts used signature pictures from his original pBase "rander" account.

or why he was banned, but the fact he's been banned says
nothing. I'm sure you've followed the case of joe mama, who's been
banned and back multiple times, if not its in
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/drpban .

That link is broken.

He is still active on dpReview as "S p i t z e r".

Joe's a good 'un, like
several I now know, once you've seen the rudeness and ignorance of
the DPR disciplinary machine for yourself, you get a bit obsessive
about it. Joe's got a good catalogue of highly offensive posts which
have been complained and gone without action.

That could well be.

Certainly, very abusive content seems to be fine, and can go
without removal or locking.

Did you ever complain about any of the threads that you consider
abusive? dpReview removal policy seems based mostly on the number and
type of complaints.

I'm not sure where you get that information from.

They actually explained a little bit of it, once. I've tried half a dozen times since to find the right magic words to get the search engine to bring it back.

So far as I'm
aware, DPR doesn't either inform people when a complaint has been
made against them or give precise reasons for a ban.

Indeed. They did explain that: it would simply train the trolls to troll better.

In the absence
of such information, it is impossible to fathom how their policy
operates.

Like any system run by a fairly small number of overworked humans, it works capriciously. Someone hits the complaint button when the moderator is having a bad day, and anything can happen.

I can only speak from personal experience, but neither of
my bans followed abusive behaviour (I know, I can be driven to it,
but in nether of these cases). In your own case, you can be really
obnoxious to people you consider to be trolls, and I'm sure have many
complaints against your name, but you've not been banned (or maybe
you have?).

Once, for a week. I did provide evidence that the "wolf pack" I was up against was one person with 6 accounts.

Threads and sub-threads on DPR's
editorial policy have I high probability of getting pulled or locked.

I've not noticed that they do in any higher percentage than other
threads.

Maybe you've not been looking.

Actually, I follow those pretty closely.

If this has already been moved, my guess is that it's only a matter
of time before it's pulled. As for the original thread, there seems
to be a level of political discussion that is not tolerated. I
engaged in a series of threads on the ethics of erotic photography,
that ended up with threads being pulled and me being banned, even
though it was hard to find anything objectionable in the content of
the threads themselves. British security policy would seem to be
another touchy area. I have a theory that there's some intersection
between Phil Askey's belief set and the requirements of the Singapore
government (where I believe DPR is hosted:
http://www.beesker.com/digital-cameras.asp ) which is not known for

its liberal attitude on many issues.

But they are known for hosting dang near anything, no questions asked

Really?

Really.

-- hide signature --

Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

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Bill Randall
Bill Randall Forum Pro • Posts: 21,969
Re: Bob, in this case...

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

Once, for a week. I did provide evidence that the "wolf pack" I was
up against was one person with 6 accounts.

I have neither the expertise nor the sophisticated equipment you have, but I have noticed some "odd" things going on. I am sure Phil knows about some of them. My concern is that Phil and company react too quickly without reasonable investigation.

I think many people, like myself, when you first start posting on the Internet have a tendency to overreact to some comments. One must go through a learning process. Fortunately I got trounced one time and it woke me up. It is so easy to get led into a ridiculous argument.

Sometimes I think Phil does not realize the significance Dpreview can play in ones life. For example, I am retired and I use to look forward to my daily time on Dpreview. The time was rewarding in that I learned, could sometimes help someone, and it was fun. After looking forward many times to updating a thread only to find posts or threads deleted - I got disappointed.

Not only am I subject to censorship (reasonable and questionable) by Phil, but censorship by those that know how to manipulate the system unfairly. In the case of WSSA, I don't know which prevailed because no indication is given as to the problem.

That's my rant and I am done. Thanks for listening.

-- hide signature --

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: Bob, in this case...

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Normally, I use some pretty sophisticated grammatical analysis
software, built for entirely different purposes. And that flagged all
Michael's accounts.

Nothing's too much trouble, eh?

But Michael is an especially dull witted fellow, and his second and
third accounts used signature pictures from his original pBase
"rander" account.

The thought does occur that he might not have been trying to hide who he was.

or why he was banned, but the fact he's been banned says
nothing. I'm sure you've followed the case of joe mama, who's been
banned and back multiple times, if not its in
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/drpban .

That link is broken.

Works for me, maybe you've been banned

He is still active on dpReview as "S p i t z e r".

And reading it, I see S p i t z e r's been banned too. Still, maybe he's around as something else. It does kind of raise the question as to why Joe gets banned inevitably, when many of the others you've identified stay there forever, despite your outing of them. Does that sound like a consistent or fairly applied policy or a grudge?

Joe's a good 'un, like
several I now know, once you've seen the rudeness and ignorance of
the DPR disciplinary machine for yourself, you get a bit obsessive
about it. Joe's got a good catalogue of highly offensive posts which
have been complained and gone without action.

That could well be.

Certainly, very abusive content seems to be fine, and can go
without removal or locking.

Did you ever complain about any of the threads that you consider
abusive? dpReview removal policy seems based mostly on the number and
type of complaints.

I'm not sure where you get that information from.

They actually explained a little bit of it, once. I've tried half a
dozen times since to find the right magic words to get the search
engine to bring it back.

I would guess they explained what they would like people to think they do, not what they actually do. I find it very difficult to see any rhyme or reason, apart from malice.

So far as I'm
aware, DPR doesn't either inform people when a complaint has been
made against them or give precise reasons for a ban.

Indeed. They did explain that: it would simply train the trolls to
troll better.

And you think that's convincing? Wouldn't it be good if real justice systems worked like that - we're not going to tell you what you're banged up for, you might learn to do it better? Oh hang on, they do in some places. North Korea and Myanmar come to mind. Perhaps they could get a second job as web masters for Kim Jong-Il.

In the absence
of such information, it is impossible to fathom how their policy
operates.

Like any system run by a fairly small number of overworked humans, it
works capriciously. Someone hits the complaint button when the
moderator is having a bad day, and anything can happen.

Sounds a bit like North Korea again. Mind you, I'm surprised how overworked they seem to be - the reviews are hardly rushing off the line and there's four or is it five of them now. Maybe it's my fault for harassing them on their editorial policy.

I can only speak from personal experience, but neither of
my bans followed abusive behaviour (I know, I can be driven to it,
but in nether of these cases). In your own case, you can be really
obnoxious to people you consider to be trolls, and I'm sure have many
complaints against your name, but you've not been banned (or maybe
you have?).

Once, for a week. I did provide evidence that the "wolf pack" I was
up against was one person with 6 accounts.

Did your evidence do you any good? Did they even reply If so, you got better treatment that I did.

Threads and sub-threads on DPR's
editorial policy have I high probability of getting pulled or locked.

I've not noticed that they do in any higher percentage than other
threads.

Maybe you've not been looking.

Actually, I follow those pretty closely.

Got the figures? Quite happy to believe I'm wrong if you have gathered some evidence.

-- hide signature --

Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: Thread closed or what ?? Maybe to me only ?

Simon Joinson wrote:

Simon Joinson wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

BTW, which is wrong, PA's belief set or being hosted in Singapore?

Both

Just shows, you shouldn't believe everything you read on web sites.

-- hide signature --

Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: DPR staff responses not very enlightening

This has turned out to be a very revealing thread!
Tell us the story, please. There's a few of us that would be very interested.

Bill Randall wrote:

Phil Askey wrote:

Bill Randall wrote:

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

If you are trying to tell me something I must admit I don't
understand what it is. Should I assume you had a problem with someone
in WSSA and therefore you punished all 300 plus members?

If you did have a problem with one member, how do you think the rest
of us felt when you locked us out with no indication as to why?

As has been stated many times on Dpreview, you can do what you want -
it is your property. But remember, what you do reflects on your
character as individuals and as a company.

I want to add that you may have had a valid reason for what you did.
The point is few if any know what it was. To us your action was a
slap in the face.

-- hide signature --

Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: Bob, in this case...

Bill Randall wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

Once, for a week. I did provide evidence that the "wolf pack" I was
up against was one person with 6 accounts.

I have neither the expertise nor the sophisticated equipment you
have, but I have noticed some "odd" things going on. I am sure Phil
knows about some of them. My concern is that Phil and company react
too quickly without reasonable investigation.

I think many people, like myself, when you first start posting on the
Internet have a tendency to overreact to some comments. One must go
through a learning process. Fortunately I got trounced one time and
it woke me up. It is so easy to get led into a ridiculous argument.

Sometimes I think Phil does not realize the significance Dpreview can
play in ones life. For example, I am retired and I use to look
forward to my daily time on Dpreview. The time was rewarding in that
I learned, could sometimes help someone, and it was fun. After
looking forward many times to updating a thread only to find posts or
threads deleted - I got disappointed.

Not only am I subject to censorship (reasonable and questionable) by
Phil, but censorship by those that know how to manipulate the system
unfairly. In the case of WSSA, I don't know which prevailed because
no indication is given as to the problem.

That's my rant and I am done. Thanks for listening.

Bill, you make a powerful argument. It's often put forward that since Phil owns the site, he can do what he likes with it. For a start, he doesn't own the site any more, he cashed in his shares for Amazon's money. But even if he did, that doesn't free him from responsibilities. I think it's commonly accepted that even in a capitalist society, media editors have some responsibilities. That aside, generally in a capitalist economy, it's not a good idea to treat your customers like garbage. Sooner or later, you go out of business. If that gets too close, maybe the shareholder will start taking notice.

-- hide signature --

Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: Thread closed or what ?? Maybe to me only ?

Phil Askey wrote:

It's a conspiracy I tells yah

Not so much a conspiracy, more a character defect.
--
Bob

Bill Randall
Bill Randall Forum Pro • Posts: 21,969
Re: DPR staff responses not very enlightening

bobn2 wrote:

This has turned out to be a very revealing thread!
Tell us the story, please. There's a few of us that would be very
interested.

This "organization" has been on this site for many months if not years. Every so often they have a membership drive. It was announced in advance that the drive would be in April and last for 5 days. I know I, and I am sure many others, spent several weeks out in the "bush" attempting to get a decent shot of the "subject" to obtain membership. Half way through the drive the threads (Pentax and Nikon) were locked.

I know there was at least one person on each forum (Pentax and Nikon) that was objecting to the threads in a very rough manner. To my knowledge no one responded unkindly to this person on the Nikon forum. Not sure about Pentax.

The unkind post on the Nikon forum was:

As if it isn't bad enough to post this swill on the Pentax forum, you have to > > try to ruin this forum too.

Let me state I know I do not have the whole story. But this is what I and many others have to sooth our feelings. It APPEARS those who were disrespectful are the winners, and those just having fun with photography lost.

-- hide signature --

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

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Billx08 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,373
About closed things

Phil Askey wrote:

It's a conspiracy I tells yah

. . .

Phil Askey
Editor, dpreview.com

"It's a conspiracy I tells yah" would have been better. You'd benefit from the services of an editor, editor.

G. Gray
OP G. Gray Veteran Member • Posts: 4,535
Re: Thanks, and not feeling that good...

Well, You have to realize your limitations so that you can get better .
Take care of yourself
Gerry

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

G. Gray wrote:

Thanks for the heads up.

You are quite welcome.

I hope that you are feeling better.

Thank you for the well wishes.

Plum (or is it plumb?) miserable right now. I just got in from doing
a little light work on the house (the sparrows colonized the holes
the woodpeckers made). I didn't do anything heavy with the right
hand, just lifting little 5 inch blocks of wood, but the exertion on
the rest of the body made the right arm swell up in the cast.

I hate casts! This is five months in the dang things.

-- hide signature --

If you go into Home Depot and someone offers to help you and he is not an employee, you are in Canada

Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?

TimT Senior Member • Posts: 2,643
WSSA?

Ok, I'm curious. What does WSSA stand for?
Here's a list of what I've been able to find using google.

WSSA Weed Science Society of America
WSSA World Sport Stacking Association (Highlands Ranch, CO)
WSSA Western Social Science Association
WSSA Weapon(s) System Support Activity
WSSA Washington State Soccer Association
WSSA Women's Studies Student Association
WSSA Wine and Spirits Shippers Association
WSSA Washington State Snowmobile Association
WSSA Water and Sanitation Services South Africa
WSSA Watercolour Society of South Africa
WSSA Welsh Secondary Schools Association
WSSA Wyoming State Snowmobile Association
WSSA Washington State Society of Anesthesiologists
WSSA Water Supply and Sewerage Authority
WSSA Weavers and Spinners Society of Austin (Texas)
WSSA Wyoming State Shooting Association (Lander, WY)
WSSA Wyoming State Soccer Association
WSSA Washington State Securities Act
WSSA White Sands Soaring Association (Alamogordo, New Mexico)
WSSA Wisconsin Social Services Association
WSSA West Shore Sportsmen's Association
WSSA Winter School on Semantics and Applications
WSSA World Sand Sculptors Association
WSSA Western Stock Show Association
WSSA West Sound Sailing Association
WSSA Western Subtropical South Atlantic
WSSA Wholesale Systems Security Administration
WSSA Workshop on System/Software Architectures
WSSA Washington State Sheriff’s Association
WSSA Web Support for Simulation and Animation
WSSA Washington Self-Storage Association
WSSA Weapons Software Support Activity
WSSA Web Security Services Agent
WSSA Worcestershire Support Services Agency (UK)
WSSA Whole Ship Shock Analysis
WSSA Washington Skeet Shooting Association
WSSA Water-Soluble Somatic Antigen
WSSA Warrnambool Sporting Shooters Association
WSSA Water-Stable Soil Aggregate
WSSA Winston-Salem Symphony Association, Inc. (North Carolina)
WSSA Western State Symposium Association
WSSA Women and Gender Studies Student Association
WSSA Wirtschaftskammer Schweiz-Süd-Afrika

So, which one is it?

Tim

Bill Randall wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

This has turned out to be a very revealing thread!
Tell us the story, please. There's a few of us that would be very
interested.

This "organization" has been on this site for many months if not
years. Every so often they have a membership drive. It was announced
in advance that the drive would be in April and last for 5 days. I
know I, and I am sure many others, spent several weeks out in the
"bush" attempting to get a decent shot of the "subject" to obtain
membership. Half way through the drive the threads (Pentax and Nikon)
were locked.

I know there was at least one person on each forum (Pentax and Nikon)
that was objecting to the threads in a very rough manner. To my
knowledge no one responded unkindly to this person on the Nikon
forum. Not sure about Pentax.

The unkind post on the Nikon forum was:

As if it isn't bad enough to post this swill on the Pentax forum, you have to > > try to ruin this forum too.

Let me state I know I do not have the whole story. But this is what I
and many others have to sooth our feelings. It APPEARS those who were
disrespectful are the winners, and those just having fun with
photography lost.

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mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 55,302
Answer is here

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=31571450&q=WSSA&qf=m

I don't know why there are so few members. Squirrells are so easy to photograph.

Dozens invade my yard daily such that they are a menance. They leave poop and urine on the poarch and deck and are so destructive to my landscaping plants and birdfeeders. For me, that's why there's little interest in photographing them.

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mamallama

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Phil Askey
Phil Askey Veteran Member • Posts: 9,822
Re: Thread closed or what ?? Maybe to me only ?

At least you're honest.

bobn2 wrote:

Not so much a conspiracy, more a character defect.
--
Bob

-- hide signature --

Phil Askey
Editor, dpreview.com

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: Thread closed or what ?? Maybe to me only ?

Yup, I try not to shy away from telling the truth.
And also giving reasonable answers to reasonable questions.
And entering into intelligent discussions about things I do and write.
And not closing off discussion so that people can't dispute my wisdom.
And not dismissing anybody and everybody with facetious one liners.
And not using the powers at my disposal to carry on personal grudges.
--
Bob

Bill Randall
Bill Randall Forum Pro • Posts: 21,969
Re: WSSA?

WSSA: Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association.

It was a group focused around photographing squirrels for the purpose of improving photographic skills, and having fun. If you search Yahoo you will see it listed. Dpreview was the main web site for this group.

-- hide signature --

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,439
Re: WSSA?

Bill Randall wrote:

WSSA: Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association.

It was a group focused around photographing squirrels for the purpose
of improving photographic skills, and having fun.

Oh bμgger, you meant use a camera?
--
Bob

Bill Randall
Bill Randall Forum Pro • Posts: 21,969
Re: WSSA?

bobn2 wrote:

Bill Randall wrote:

WSSA: Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association.

It was a group focused around photographing squirrels for the purpose
of improving photographic skills, and having fun.

Oh bμgger, you meant use a camera?

Yes, we are a non-violent group.

-- hide signature --

WSSA Member #281 on 04-23-09

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