GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

Started May 8, 2009 | Discussions
JortS29 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,781
GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

ISO3200, equal exposure for both, sharpening and NR turned off, developed with RawTherapee.

GH1:

G1:

GH1:

G1:

Too bad about there's banding in the shadows from the GH1, but there seems to be a very clear improvement regarding overall noise.

oluv Senior Member • Posts: 1,973
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

very interesting. was waiting for this. but i don't see any improvement at all. if you soften the G1 image as much as the GH1 it should even look better without the nasty banding.

which lens was used for the GH1 samples, any idea? if the new kit-lens is really that soft than i will pass..

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grzybu Regular Member • Posts: 155
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

I did similar tests and looks like GH1 is about 1EV better than G1. So it means ISO1600 is really usable.
Now I just have to wait for price drop and kit with 14-45.

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Regards
Grzegorz Rakoczy

OP JortS29 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,781
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

oluv wrote:

very interesting. was waiting for this. but i don't see any
improvement at all. if you soften the G1 image as much as the GH1 it
should even look better without the nasty banding.

I don't agree. The GH1 does seem to have a slightly stronger AA filter or a softer lens used, but all in all, even after sharpening the GH1 shot a little, overall noise seems to be more than half a stop lower. The banding issue is real though. Panasonic needs fix that..

which lens was used for the GH1 samples, any idea? if the new
kit-lens is really that soft than i will pass..

Don't know for sure.

Roberto de La Tour
Roberto de La Tour Regular Member • Posts: 244
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

Sorry I am no expert, and

Anyways, you used the same lens at the same focal lenght and the same aperture? What lens?
--
Roberto

oluv Senior Member • Posts: 1,973
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

i looked a bit at the raw-files and to me it seems as if the GH1 applied a simple low-pass filter especially on shadows.

there might be some overall improvement, but the heavy banding just turnes it back.

without banding the GH1 would definitely be a winner, but i am sure that i can postprocess the G1 files better and get cleaner results. also the G1 had a banding-problem, but the GH1 is quite severe.

i also think that the GH1 is quite a bit softer than the G1, might it be because of the used lens, or because of the new high-iso filtering, who knows...

here an example where i applied a low-pass filter on the shadows of the G1, there is still some chroma-noise, but in comparison the G1H just seems to have the noise washed away.

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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

Roberto de La Tour wrote:

Sorry I am no expert, and
a "candid" viewer as me, looking at the text on the pencil, the GH1
is sharper, shows more detail than the G1. What are these "bandings"
you talk about?

Anyways, you used the same lens at the same focal lenght and the same
aperture? What lens?
--
Roberto

You can see a pattern of horizontal lines going across the image..that is banding. It's difficult to deal with too, thus it's not wanted!

The noise looks better on the new model, but with the banding it's not up to par..

oluv Senior Member • Posts: 1,973
another thing...

when i discovered some regular noise structures on my G1 raw files in the right bottom corner, i sent my G1 to panasonic-service. they didn't even bother to have a look at it, but thank godness they exchanged it for another model. the new one still has the problem, but not that strong as the first one.

now i had a look at the G1H files and panasonic doesn't seem to have learned anything. the G1H has it spread around the whole frame, what a pity:

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OP JortS29 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,781
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

Oluv, have a look at the reds for example. In the G1 shot, detail is lost beyond recognition and can't be recovered, while in the GH1 file it's still there.

oluv Senior Member • Posts: 1,973
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

yeah, you are right. the fabrics are much better in the GH1 high-iso image.

still i am quite disappointed about the heavy banding. this could make many images unusable, especially shots in dark rooms and higher isos will look horrible with the GH1 if the banding won't improve.

ps. the GH1 also has a hot-pixel that is visible even at iso100. if a pixel-refresh would fix this?

i had one hot pixel on my G1 visible from iso800 and up, but after doing a pixel-refresh it disappeared.

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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

oluv wrote:

yeah, you are right. the fabrics are much better in the GH1 high-iso
image.

still i am quite disappointed about the heavy banding. this could
make many images unusable, especially shots in dark rooms and higher
isos will look horrible with the GH1 if the banding won't improve.

Dumb comment, but is this a production model?

Maybe the issue will be resolved at release and retail models?

oluv Senior Member • Posts: 1,973
Re: GH1 vs G1 RAW comparison..

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

Dumb comment, but is this a production model?

Maybe the issue will be resolved at release and retail models?

i doubt they can fix it. already the G1 had some banding-issues and it was never fixed.
the GH1 banding seems quite a bit stronger though.

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Jonas B Forum Pro • Posts: 14,596
Re: another thing...

oluv wrote:

That's some ugly stuff.

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Jonas

duartix Veteran Member • Posts: 3,590
Re: another thing...

oluv wrote:

now i had a look at the G1H files and panasonic doesn't seem to have
learned anything. the G1H has it spread around the whole frame, what
a pity:

The G1 also shows it even though it's goes almost unnoticed. Yet, how come it doesn't show in any of IR's JPEGs?
--
Duarte Bruno

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OP JortS29 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,781
Re: another thing...

Seems to be a demosaicing problem.

liquidsquid Senior Member • Posts: 1,851
Banding could be RFI on the GH1/G1

Some of the banding issues we loath could be due to local strong RF interference. i.e. nearby transmitters, large motors, etc.

Interestingly I can get banding at work where there are tons of PCs and electronics projects running, but I have I have NO problems at all at home... so it is definitely tied to location. The only thing that seems location specific is the amount of radiated noise in the local area.

This studio may be susceptible to local interference, and the G1/GH1 may be especially sensitive to it. Not something you normally consider when purchasing a camera, but there it is... Also the drawback of a plastic case vs. metal.

Not much you can do about it besides not use your camera in high ISO near known noise sources, or run your image through a filter only in the Y direction.

-Mark

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GregGory Veteran Member • Posts: 4,252
Where are all the jaggies comming from?

Especially the shaft of the blue brush looks bad. Has this crop been resized properly? Or is this just the barrel correction going on?

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Mike Chaney Senior Member • Posts: 2,850
Where did you get these renditions?

I downloaded the ISO 100 RW2 from the G1 off their site and see no problems with it. It doesn't have that pattern noise when I use either ACR or Qimage. What raw tool did you use?

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Mike
Author: Qimage, Profile Prism
http://www.ddisoftware.com

oluv Senior Member • Posts: 1,973
Re: Where did you get these renditions?

you have to sharpen strongly with ACR in order to see it as ACR uses some heavy noise reduction.

try converting the file with dcraw and you will notice it easily. AHD demosaicing is particularly sensitive for this artefacts.

capture one (with hacked G1 raw-files) doesn't show this problem at all, their demosaicing seems to be corrected for this.

you also have the option of using green equilibration, but only few converters provide this option, one of them being perfect raw.
another possibility would be to use VNG algorithm which is very soft though.

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GregGory Veteran Member • Posts: 4,252
Jaggies GONE with RT

I think the OP's crop was resized, not resampled properly. I certainly can't see them on my own rig.

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