k7d?

Started Apr 21, 2009 | Discussions
Caat Senior Member • Posts: 2,229
Re: k7d?

yana36 wrote:

tomtor wrote:

That is not a 1500 euro camera, it's aa sub 1000 euro camera unless

1500 is pre-order price, the real price will be under 1300 euro.
Camera will be with unique VF.

What is so supposedly unique about the viewfinder?

And I agree with tomtor that it sounds like a 1000 Euro camera not a 1500 Euro camera. If it has a metal body to add to the quality feel then it might get away with its mediocre specs.

Whether such spec increases are needed photographically speaking is irrelevant. The unfortunate thing is the competition the camera will face from the D90, 50D, E30 and even the aging A700 is strong. Add in the 500D and the E620 and a K20D in new clothes, whilst still a good camera, is merely a good camera among many. It will need a very desireable USP to compete.

Yem Contributing Member • Posts: 715
So, a smaller K20D with video?

If that's it, the ol 20D and similar should be nice and cheap later this year.

Charlie Self Veteran Member • Posts: 3,924
Re: So, a smaller K20D with video?

Yem wrote:

If that's it, the ol 20D and similar should be nice and cheap later
this year.

Oh, man. I hope.

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digifan Senior Member • Posts: 2,332
Re: regarding k7d costs

sfa1966 wrote:

tomtor wrote:

yana36 wrote:

It will be the same K20D with better LV, the same SAFOX VIII (a bit
better), with new AF mode - 6.5 fps in 6 MP jpeg, HD video and new
body.
The same 1/180 and 1/4000.
The new version of 14.6 CMOS sensor of Samsung.
IT ALL!!!! No any revolution.

That is not a 1500 euro camera, it's aa sub 1000 euro camera

But there will be a big on-cost associated with the new body/VF.
That's a whole new re-tooled assembly line as compared to the K10D to
K20D upgrade.

Well I don't want to pay for a new assembly line. Those costs are pentax costs.

Who cares, a mfr updates his facilities, it's of no added value to the customer, it's just a given need for the mfr.

I want to pay for a good product, and it has to be very very much improved over a K20D before a 1500euro price is justified!

If yana's '6.5 fps in 6MP jpeg' rumour is correct, that could be a
very nice feature.

And if the new version of the sensor gives us an extra stop of ISO
performance, then all the better.

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Cheers,
sfa

A very limited photographer ...

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Digifan

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andy amos Contributing Member • Posts: 685
Re: k7d?

Actually, personally this is becoming more exciting in terms of news and features than for the past 6 months.

If I remember rightly, we were all in a frenzy last autumn, ultimately rewarded with the Km/ K2000! sort of great-bad news after the hype.

This spring it was ultimately the "crisis is surely hurting" X70 debut but with the soul saving additional 645D "really going ahead" tantilizer.

If this "K7D" is the "Limited" camera many of us have dreamt about, ie, not necessarily ground breaking megapixels, but more stuff like bigger viewfinder, really robust body, more controls on the outside, possibly externalising modes currently found using the Fn button like shooting mode, white balance and flash, then I'm going to have to rob the bank or suffer months of restless nights!

Oh, and I actually quite like the boxy look, sort of like my Contax Aria; small, solid and chunky.....more Yorky-Bar than Marsbar!

halil selman nsel Regular Member • Posts: 326
Re: regarding k7d costs

if it will be only some small changes to k20d like bigger LCD and movie mode, then i can say that Pentax does not get something new since the release of k10d. AF system should be totally renewed and we need a better light meter (whatever the name is, i could not remember)....

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,137
Re: k7d?

yana36 wrote:

  • Name: K7 (with or without "D")

  • Size: slightly smaller than K20D

not slightly. smaller than K200D.

  • Shape: peculiar, rectangular prism housing

  • Official announcement: during last 10 days of May

May, 22

  • Same sensor as the K20D

  • Up to 6400 ISO with better noise treatment

  • 5 images/sec

No. 3.5 fps.

  • 100 % viewfinder

it's hard to say.

  • Better weatherproofing

The same

  • Mirror lockup

  • Liveview and HD Video

yes

  • Better stabilizer .

it's hard to say

  • Better DRE mode

  • 77 zones light metering

No any info

  • Much better AF system even with non-SDM lenses

The same SAFOX VIII

  • 3 inches/ 920 000 pixels screen with in-body editing (crop...)

2.7"

  • 1/8000 shutter with 1/250 sync

1/4000 and 1/180

You make this new camera sound like a K20D in a newer, smaller body.

Seriously guys, if this is true then they've really missed the mark this time around. Body size and weight was the least significant issue with the K20D.

cheers,
bazz.
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Caat Senior Member • Posts: 2,229
Re: k7d?

sir_bazz wrote:

yana36 wrote:

  • Name: K7 (with or without "D")

  • Size: slightly smaller than K20D

not slightly. smaller than K200D.

  • Shape: peculiar, rectangular prism housing

  • Official announcement: during last 10 days of May

May, 22

  • Same sensor as the K20D

  • Up to 6400 ISO with better noise treatment

  • 5 images/sec

No. 3.5 fps.

  • 100 % viewfinder

it's hard to say.

  • Better weatherproofing

The same

  • Mirror lockup

  • Liveview and HD Video

yes

  • Better stabilizer .

it's hard to say

  • Better DRE mode

  • 77 zones light metering

No any info

  • Much better AF system even with non-SDM lenses

The same SAFOX VIII

  • 3 inches/ 920 000 pixels screen with in-body editing (crop...)

2.7"

  • 1/8000 shutter with 1/250 sync

1/4000 and 1/180

You make this new camera sound like a K20D in a newer, smaller body.

Seriously guys, if this is true then they've really missed the mark
this time around. Body size and weight was the least significant
issue with the K20D.

For marketing purposes a frame rate of 3.5fps doesn't look too hot. 1/4000 sec is a problem for me but less of an issue if competing with the D90 pricepoint - if its competing at the D300 pricepoint then it needs to be 1/6000 +

Maybe this is the niche strategy Hoya mentioned: class leading ergonomics, excellent lens, good looks but slightly behind the curve mechanics and eletronics.

It'll still be a good camera but the K20D could have been updated to compete with the D90 nicely - it already does in a way. The question is will the K7 be niche enough to be the same price as the D90 but appeal to different consumers. We shall see.

jackbw Senior Member • Posts: 1,702
Wondering about the "D"

Ursinho73 wrote:

  • Name: K7 (with or without "D")

I know it's trivial, but do we need to be reminded that it's digital?

Good thing we didn't get a K2000D, that would have been the longest ever.

ozdean
ozdean Forum Pro • Posts: 26,214
Re: k7d?

Weight and size are always an issue IMO.
--
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Yem Contributing Member • Posts: 715
Re: Wondering about the "D"

I figure they'll stop when people stop calling them dSLRs

Ursinho73 Regular Member • Posts: 432
Re: Sensor Size

sfa1966 wrote:
I'd hope that you were both (Ursinho/viking) largely correct in your
speculations, but given what Richard Day has said in the other thread
I think it will be nothing more than APS-C;

Of course it will be APS-C ... where did you see Eric or me saying something different? All those wild speculations about "square APS-H" or stuff like that are plain BS.

Ursinho73 wrote:
Same sensor as the K20D

viking79 wrote:
I am guessing similar resolution, but improved version of the sensor.

Regards,
Hannes

Ursinho73 Regular Member • Posts: 432
Re: Prism Housing

Ursinho73 wrote:
So, this is what they say elsewhere:
(...)

  • Shape: peculiar, rectangular prism housing

This is what I meant:

Regards,
Hannes

awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 13,271
Re: Prism Housing

Ursinho73 wrote:

Ursinho73 wrote:
So, this is what they say elsewhere:
(...)

  • Shape: peculiar, rectangular prism housing

This is what I meant:

Regards,
Hannes

Does that suspiciously like an EVF housing to anyone else.?

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viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,156
Re: Prism Housing

awaldram wrote:

Does that suspiciously like an EVF housing to anyone else.?

I thought that too, but it looks too big for EVF and too long. Also, the mount looks like standard K mount and EVF would probably use a new, more compact, mount. I think we will see an EVF model from Pentax (maybe a rebadged Samsung?), but I don't think this is it.

Eric
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sfa1966
sfa1966 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,474
Re: regarding k7d costs

digifan wrote:

sfa1966 wrote:

But there will be a big on-cost associated with the new body/VF.
That's a whole new re-tooled assembly line as compared to the K10D to
K20D upgrade.

Well I don't want to pay for a new assembly line.

I think you have little choice if you want the new body.

Those costs are pentax costs.

You don't think they are allowed pass their costs on in this commercial world? If they did not, what would their shareholders think?

Who cares, a mfr updates his facilities ... [snip]

Hoya's shareholders care. They require a return on their investment.

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Cheers,
sfa

A very limited photographer ...

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awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 13,271
Re: Prism Housing

viking79 wrote:

awaldram wrote:

Does that suspiciously like an EVF housing to anyone else.?

I thought that too, but it looks too big for EVF and too long. Also,
the mount looks like standard K mount and EVF would probably use a
new, more compact, mount. I think we will see an EVF model from
Pentax (maybe a rebadged Samsung?), but I don't think this is it.

Eric

Hi Eric,

Could be a 'hud' (head up display) as this would allow

1 pretty cool live view.
2 high FPS using an electronic shutter on the cmos
3 still allow 'optical'

And wouldn't require a redesigned mirror box.

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digifan Senior Member • Posts: 2,332
Re: I guess you need...

sfa1966 wrote:

digifan wrote:

sfa1966 wrote:

But there will be a big on-cost associated with the new body/VF.
That's a whole new re-tooled assembly line as compared to the K10D to
K20D upgrade.

Well I don't want to pay for a new assembly line.

I think you have little choice if you want the new body.

Those costs are pentax costs.

You don't think they are allowed pass their costs on in this
commercial world? If they did not, what would their shareholders
think?

Who cares, a mfr updates his facilities ... [snip]

Hoya's shareholders care. They require a return on their investment.

some business management education.

If mfr wants to stay competitive they need to keep the costs down a lot. This is applicable for every business. No customer cares if i.e. parts need to be handled some special way which costs the mfr money. There's no added value to certain actions in the production process but are necessary to get the job done. No customer cares how the job gets done, he/she just wants a quality product.

So if Pentax needs new facilities this is of no interrest to the customer and the customer will only pay higher price for a product if there is ADDED vallue to the end product.

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Cheers,
sfa

A very limited photographer ...

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Digifan

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sfa1966
sfa1966 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,474
Re: I guess you need...

digifan wrote:

sfa1966 wrote:

digifan wrote:

sfa1966 wrote:

But there will be a big on-cost associated with the new body/VF.
That's a whole new re-tooled assembly line as compared to the K10D to
K20D upgrade.

Well I don't want to pay for a new assembly line.

I think you have little choice if you want the new body.

Those costs are pentax costs.

You don't think they are allowed pass their costs on in this
commercial world? If they did not, what would their shareholders
think?

Who cares, a mfr updates his facilities ... [snip]

Hoya's shareholders care. They require a return on their investment.

some business management education.

No need to get personal. I run my own business, and have done for the last 5 years, FWIW.

If mfr wants to stay competitive they need to keep the costs down a
lot. This is applicable for every business.

Yes.

No customer cares if i.e.
parts need to be handled some special way which costs the mfr money.
There's no added value to certain actions in the production process
but are necessary to get the job done. No customer cares how the job
gets done, he/she just wants a quality product.

My post was based on COMPARATIVE premise. Did you miss that? The K20D was the same body as the K10D. The new body is, well, new. A different assembly process or assembly line will be used. Because of this, there will be COMPARATIVELY (compared to K20D upgrade) some additional costs. Of course these will need to be kept as low as possible, but they cannot be avoided.

So if Pentax needs new facilities this is of no interrest to the
customer and the customer will only pay higher price for a product if
there is ADDED vallue to the end product.

Perhaps the 'new facilities' are the means to that end? You know: Larger VF? Smaller body? (Perhaps) better sealing?

And (just in case you misread me again) I am not saying that Pentax have not done any cost-benefit analysis (of course they have), I am just saying that there IS additional cost as well as additional benefit.

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Cheers,
sfa

A very limited photographer ...

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Luis Eugenio Regular Member • Posts: 136
So it's more likely a K30D

yana36 wrote:

  • Name: K7 (with or without "D")

  • Size: slightly smaller than K20D

not slightly. smaller than K200D.

  • Shape: peculiar, rectangular prism housing

  • Official announcement: during last 10 days of May

May, 22

  • Same sensor as the K20D

  • Up to 6400 ISO with better noise treatment

  • 5 images/sec

No. 3.5 fps.

  • 100 % viewfinder

it's hard to say.

  • Better weatherproofing

The same

  • Mirror lockup

  • Liveview and HD Video

yes

  • Better stabilizer .

it's hard to say

  • Better DRE mode

  • 77 zones light metering

No any info

  • Much better AF system even with non-SDM lenses

The same SAFOX VIII

  • 3 inches/ 920 000 pixels screen with in-body editing (crop...)

2.7"

  • 1/8000 shutter with 1/250 sync

1/4000 and 1/180

Given all that info, I would say that those minor changes would fit in a "K30D concept" and wouldn't justify this huge market change to a "K7".

Best Regards,
Luis Eugenio

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