5DmkII performance in Infrared?

Started Mar 9, 2009 | Discussions
kalahari Senior Member • Posts: 1,099
5DmkII performance in Infrared?

Does anyone know if 5DmkII can be used for infra-red photography similar to the picture below:

Thanks in advance for your help,

kalahari

 kalahari's gear list:kalahari's gear list
Canon EOS RP
Xadin Forum Member • Posts: 95
I'm interested too

I have a 40D and it performs relatively well with a HOYA R72... I wonder how the new 5D behaves.

GazzaJagman Senior Member • Posts: 2,217
Buy one and find out

Buy one and find out...this isn't a brain dump forum.

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Xadin Forum Member • Posts: 95
Re: Buy one and find out

Thanks for the interesting comment... now go back and play.

Pangea Regular Member • Posts: 194
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

I'm so interested in this matter too.
Thanks in advance.
PS) there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

kalahari wrote:

Does anyone know if 5DmkII can be used for infra-red photography
similar to the picture below:

Thanks in advance for your help,

kalahari

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Canon EOS 5DS R Apple iPhone X
rrcphoto Veteran Member • Posts: 6,173
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

your mileage will vary unless you get the camera modded for IR .. you atypically lose in the order of 3 to 5 stops of light using an R72 filter.

converted I'm sure it will be spectacular. non-converted .. it's more difficult.

Teosax Senior Member • Posts: 1,466
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

hello kalahari
i would be interested to know the set up you took that fabulous image
which camera, uf converted or not, lens
thanks
matteo

John Adler Senior Member • Posts: 1,739
It should be fine..

..but expect exposures on the order of 1/4 second f/5.6 ISO 100 in direct sunlight with a No. 87 filter.

Also, keep in mind that your gorgeous example photo has had some post-processing-- specifically color channel swapping. The images don't come out of the camera that way.

-John

Teosax Senior Member • Posts: 1,466
Re: Buy one and find out

gazza your comment is really rude !
wtf is wrong with you?
this is exactly the type of question this forum is about...
maybe u dont know s@it about IR

because if you knew it you would know that with some cameras you cant have color IR unless you convert them...
damn people never learn to be polite?

endus Contributing Member • Posts: 864
Funny you mention this...

I just shot my first IR test shots this weekend. Unfortunately I was unable to get a close enough shot of some grass to get a good custom white balance before I did, so the shots are no good. You have to take a test shot of something like grass or leaves which "should" appear white in IR, then use that frame to set a custom WB, then shoot your actual pic.

You will be getting 30 second exposures in bright sunlight. You will also, I suspect, get results more similar to this out of the camera...

http://www.desolatemetropolis.com/dm/archives/2008/01/hidden-in-trees.html

...and this after a color channel swap...

http://www.desolatemetropolis.com/dm/archives/2008/01/dreams-of-eden.html

I have NEVER been able to get results like that shown in the photo you linked with my 20D, and I suspect that the 5d will be exactly the same in this regard.
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OP kalahari Senior Member • Posts: 1,099
my setup for the picture...

See this set of images for the test I did:

http://www.pbase.com/kalahari/infrared_image_test

All pictures were taken with a Dimage 7, using a Hoya R72 filter. This is what the scene looked without the use of a filter:

This is what the picture look when using the R72 filter:

This is what the picture looked like after swapping 2 color channels:

I know that some of the Canon bodies (like my EOS 5) and some lenses have internal IR test sites so wanted to check if anyone has tried this with the 5D before I spend the money on the filters.

I will go ahead and start by ordering a 72mm filter and testing one of the lenses and the body, if no one else has. Once I have that data we should develop a database of lenses. Unfortunately the new lenses seem to not have the the IR line that showed you how much to change the focus by when you put the filter on. So we will have to do this by trial and error and draw our own line on the focus ring.

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Canon EOS RP
OP kalahari Senior Member • Posts: 1,099
Re: Funny you mention this...

Nice pictures. I figure that we can shoot raw and not have to worry about the white balance. With the pictures you have shown I suspect it will be just fine.

I will go ahead and order a couple of filters. I will be able to test the following lenses and will post the results:

Sigma 15mm fish eye (Not sure if I can put a filter on this one)
Sigma 12-24mm zoom
Canon 35mm
Canon 50mm f1.8 II
Sigma 24-60mm
Canon 85mm f1.8
Tamron 70-300mm Macro
Tamron 180mm f3.5 Macro

All full frame.

I plan on starting with canon 35mm and 50mm. Then work my way to others.

Thanks for your help!

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Canon EOS RP
ADWyatt Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

Although this isn't directly related to your issue, it's because of infrared that I've decided not to upgrade my amateur camera setup.

I currently own the 40D and 20D, and had thought about selling them off for the 50D. I've decided instead to keep these bodies, and use them for the three years or so until the 5D3 is released. The 40D will then be my emergency backup, and the 20D will be converted for infrared. I'm doing this because I've become convinced that no filter or software program can equal the quality of a camera body that is altered specifically for infrared.

Now of course, someone is going to tell me that the picture quality of an infrared 20D image certainly won't equal the output of a 5D3 (which I believe will be about 27 to 30MP). True enough, but I'm not going to spend some $3,000 just for an infrared camera body. At a maximum size of 13"x19" for infrared with the 20D, the image should be just fine.

If you're in the position where you have an extra camera body, beyond your backup, you might look into the idea of converting that for infrared.

rrcphoto Veteran Member • Posts: 6,173
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

ADWyatt wrote:

Although this isn't directly related to your issue, it's because of
infrared that I've decided not to upgrade my amateur camera setup.

I currently own the 40D and 20D, and had thought about selling them
off for the 50D. I've decided instead to keep these bodies, and use
them for the three years or so until the 5D3 is released. The 40D
will then be my emergency backup, and the 20D will be converted for
infrared. I'm doing this because I've become convinced that no filter
or software program can equal the quality of a camera body that is
altered specifically for infrared.

Now of course, someone is going to tell me that the picture quality
of an infrared 20D image certainly won't equal the output of a 5D3
(which I believe will be about 27 to 30MP). True enough, but I'm not
going to spend some $3,000 just for an infrared camera body. At a
maximum size of 13"x19" for infrared with the 20D, the image should
be just fine.

13x19 from my experience is pushing it for a IR modded 20D body - I have one.

you lose alot of contrast, and alot of sharpening because you are in reality - predominately using the red channel of the sensor clipping is very sharp on the 20D as well.

most of my 20D modded images are acceptable up 8x10, and a few past that with some very careful photoshop work up to 12x18.

rrcphoto Veteran Member • Posts: 6,173
Re: my setup for the picture...

kalahari wrote:
that some of the Canon bodies (like my EOS 5) and some lenses

have internal IR test sites so wanted to check if anyone has tried
this with the 5D before I spend the money on the filters.

you mean hot spots I presume? or IR focus markings?

the cut filter on most modern DSLR's is aggressive in blocking IR light. also, it's possible you won't see hot spots with an IR blocking filter, but would with a modded camera.

there are several resources that already have a list of lenses with hot spots, etc -

here's one such assembled list / thread:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38272

endus Contributing Member • Posts: 864
RAW

You cannot just shoot RAW and expect to fix the white balance in post. It can work sometimes, sort of, but there are a couple of problems. First of all you tend to blow out the red channel completely, losing detail in the highlights. Second, you have to torture the other channels to get them to match the red channel resulting in a ton of noise.

If I remember right these were shot that way....

http://www.desolatemetropolis.com/dm/archives/2006/10/bats-head.html

http://www.desolatemetropolis.com/dm/archives/2006/10/severed-wing.html

They did wind up working, but those are two examples out of many other failed attempts. They both also required a lot of processing to get right.

Do some experiments, for sure, but trust me...setting the custom white balance will lead to a lot better and a lot more consistent results. You'll definitely get usable shots under a wider variety of conditions and youll also get shots that are easier to process.

Now if I could figure some way to get shots like the original one posted in the thread with REALLY white trees and blue skies...then I would be happy.
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endus Contributing Member • Posts: 864
Re: RAW

Oh another tip too, since Im at it. Lens flare: big problem. Always shoot with a lens hood and always shoot away from the sun.

And heres another IR shot I took. No real reason to post it other than the fact that it's super sexy, if I do say so myself. It's an IR pano, actually...

http://www.desolatemetropolis.com/dm/archives/2007/06/under-an-invisi.html

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endus Contributing Member • Posts: 864
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

Converted camera is definitely the way to go. I would love to shoot some models in IR...being able to hand hold IR shots? That would be lunacy...I cant even imagine how great it would be.

The pictures come out better from converted cameras too.

I've thought about converting my 20D but...ehhh...need a backup camera.
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endus Contributing Member • Posts: 864
Re: 5DmkII performance in Infrared?

rrcphoto wrote:

ADWyatt wrote:

Although this isn't directly related to your issue, it's because of
infrared that I've decided not to upgrade my amateur camera setup.

I currently own the 40D and 20D, and had thought about selling them
off for the 50D. I've decided instead to keep these bodies, and use
them for the three years or so until the 5D3 is released. The 40D
will then be my emergency backup, and the 20D will be converted for
infrared. I'm doing this because I've become convinced that no filter
or software program can equal the quality of a camera body that is
altered specifically for infrared.

Now of course, someone is going to tell me that the picture quality
of an infrared 20D image certainly won't equal the output of a 5D3
(which I believe will be about 27 to 30MP). True enough, but I'm not
going to spend some $3,000 just for an infrared camera body. At a
maximum size of 13"x19" for infrared with the 20D, the image should
be just fine.

13x19 from my experience is pushing it for a IR modded 20D body - I
have one.

you lose alot of contrast, and alot of sharpening because you are in
reality - predominately using the red channel of the sensor clipping
is very sharp on the 20D as well.

most of my 20D modded images are acceptable up 8x10, and a few past
that with some very careful photoshop work up to 12x18.

Agree. I printed this 12x18 but would not go much bigger...

http://www.desolatemetropolis.com/dm/archives/2008/02/overlooking-ste.html

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endus Contributing Member • Posts: 864
focus

For focus just use autofocus after mounting the R72. It works perfectly fine.

You know there's a list of lenses that do not have IR hotspots, right? Not sure where offhand and there is some new glass out that might be better (16-35 II???) but the list is out there.
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