AA-filter mod finalised

Started Feb 15, 2009 | Discussions
bloomoose
bloomoose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,224
AA-filter mod finalised

So my camera is now fully functional. WB is a little off, but nothing serious.

Here is a portrait (yeah, I´m overworked):

Crop from the eye (mod):

Crop from the eye (unmod):

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Greetings from Germany,
Pam

Some of my casual D3 images @ photoforum
http://www.fotografie.fr/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 bloomoose's gear list:bloomoose's gear list
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Torchwood Contributing Member • Posts: 831
Chalk and Cheese !!!

Fantastic Pam - from coke bottle blur to D50-level pin Sharp ! ....... fabulous.. did they fit an S3 or D50 AA or is it removed altogether

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--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

bloomoose
OP bloomoose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,224
Sorry, for being premature ...

Adam, I didn´t take these and I have seen that AF is totally inconsistent, so I took them off the server. I will try to get the LensAlign test shot from my studio partner who uses the unmodified S5 and the file is on his card. The LensAlign target should be focussed ...
--
Greetings from Germany,
Pam

Some of my casual D3 images @ photoforum
http://www.fotografie.fr/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 bloomoose's gear list:bloomoose's gear list
Pentax 645D Nikon D750 Sony a7R II Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC +7 more
Torchwood Contributing Member • Posts: 831
Re: Sorry, for being premature ...

Adam, I didn´t take these and I have seen that AF is totally
inconsistent

Hokay - It's the sort of difference I'm expecting anyway after directly comparing the S5 with the D50 (which "almost" has an AA filter .

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--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

miso kaco
miso kaco Contributing Member • Posts: 983
Re: AA-filter mod finalised

pam, i don't mean to sound rude, but do we get to see some pictures? we've been waiting for this moment since forever, you know

 miso kaco's gear list:miso kaco's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Kodak DCS Pro SLR/n Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF +1 more
bloomoose
OP bloomoose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,224
Re: AA-filter mod finalised

Hi Miso, yeah, I know, it has taken ages. Here is the lens align comparison:

Guess which is which ;

The frame:

WB is slightly cooler on the modified S5, but nothing to worry about if you shoot RAW. Sharpness and contrast is enhanced.

Of course, I´m happy with the result, it´s just what I wanted. But I won´t do it on my D3 workhorse as of yet.
--
Greetings from Germany,
Pam

Some of my casual D3 images @ photoforum
http://www.fotografie.fr/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 bloomoose's gear list:bloomoose's gear list
Pentax 645D Nikon D750 Sony a7R II Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC +7 more
reywob Regular Member • Posts: 145
Re: AA-filter mod finalised

Very very impressive Pam!

Peter

tralalax Regular Member • Posts: 312
Re: Sorry, for being premature ...

Adam T:
what made you change your name huh?

Bernie Ess Veteran Member • Posts: 7,151
My view on it...

reywob wrote:

Very very impressive Pam!

Yes and no, in my eyes. What has really improved, is contrast and clarity, but the pure sharpness has stayed the same.

It would be necessary to see real world images with much small detail. Test charts with simple black and white forms are too abstract to judge on real world IQ.

regards
bernie

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Fujifilm X-T3
bloomoose
OP bloomoose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,224
Re: My view on it...

Yeah, real world examples: a little camera shake, a little AF problems and the extra sharpness is gone
--
Greetings from Germany,
Pam

Some of my casual D3 images @ photoforum
http://www.fotografie.fr/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 bloomoose's gear list:bloomoose's gear list
Pentax 645D Nikon D750 Sony a7R II Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC +7 more
Dayo Senior Member • Posts: 2,837
Improved Contrast & Clarity = Improved Sharpness (nt)
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'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: November 12, 2005

Bernie Ess Veteran Member • Posts: 7,151
Re: My view on it...

bloomoose wrote:

Yeah, real world examples: a little camera shake, a little AF
problems and the extra sharpness is gone

This would contradict my own experience: The S3pro delivers sharper results than the S5pro, image for image, and I mean real world images.

When I got the S5 it took me exactly 1 image to discover that the S5 is a step back in terms of resolution and detail.

So yes indeed, it should be visible in real world photos...

regards
Bernie

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Torchwood Contributing Member • Posts: 831
Total Turnaround --->

Just as the Eye crops were originally - I've been looking at some of my old S3 images and they're way more detailed than the S5 either RAW or JPG and your crops point to the Culprit with a BIG Neon Arrow saying "Culprit this way" ........

My guess was that the S5 resolves about 4 RAW Mp in D50 terms and 4.5 RAW or JPG Mp in S3 terms but with that mod you get the S3 sharpness (maybe a bit more) & Detail in the S5 Along with the more natural colour, far better DR handling in JPGs, and of course the far better body & battery system which the S5 beats the S3 for .. Excellent ..

Yup, its cheaper and easier to just buy an S3 , use a D50 and HDR the RAWs or put up with the Blurry AA of the S5 but for those dedicated to the cam and need it for more than just a few shop interiors a year, looks a good bet !

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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

Torchwood Contributing Member • Posts: 831
Re: My view on it...

When I got the S5 it took me exactly 1 image to discover that the S5
is a step back in terms of resolution and detail.

Same here - RAW or JPG .. the RAWs showed 1:- that FUji had improved the S5 JPG over NR issue at some stage (less melty than the samples at DPR or the ones I took at launch) and 2:- that the AA filter was the issue as little more could be pulled from the RAWs and they were still smudgy unless a ludicrously sharp lens was used

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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

Bernie Ess Veteran Member • Posts: 7,151
Re: Total Turnaround --->

Torchwood wrote:

with that mod you get the S3 sharpness
(maybe a bit more) & Detail in the S5 Along with the more natural
colour, far better DR handling in JPGs, and of course the far better
body & battery system which the S5 beats the S3 for ..

I'd add minus a number of pics which will be ruined by moiré. It will probably not happen oftenly, but from time to time.

Otherwise that's how I see it too, and this is why I probably will get mine modified, too.

It would be interesting to see how a modified S3 would be, but those bodies become quite unreliable and to spend money (modification) on a body that may just fail shortly after is quite a risk.

Bernie

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Fujifilm X-T3
Torchwood Contributing Member • Posts: 831
Re: Total Turnaround --->

It would be interesting to see how a modified S3 would be

Would be the same I guess as the AA was the only thing they said they changed (for the worst it would seem) .. in fact I'd go as far as to say that I'd actually rather have an S3 AA installed on the S5 than none at all as I had Zero issues with the fine detail reproduction of that camera - the D50 AA is probably too weak and not designed with SCCD in mnd.

I'm wondering if the S5's CCD could be replaced with the S3 one effectively changing just the AA filter?, assuming that its on an identical PCB with the same mounts and ribbon cable as its easier to do than hacking the sensor and you could always sell off the S3 with the soft sensor

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--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

CWilt Senior Member • Posts: 2,436
Question for Pam

I would interested if IR sensitivity has changed. IR contamination can be a bigger problem than morie on some fabrics.

Two ways I can think to test this. Use a TV IR remote control. Set remote the same distance from a modified and unmodified cameras, same lens, same exposure. The other way is to shoot something like a black camera bag in sunlight. My Lowepro can turn purple when shot with the D2x without a filter. As it does with some P&S models as well.

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Charles
My family images are at http://www.stakeman.smugmug.com
Be sure of your subject.
Never, force the shot.

bloomoose
OP bloomoose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,224
Re: Question for Pam

Hi Charles,

the last mod was very sensitive to IR and all the images were near IR polluted. I had to use a UV/IR-cut filter to correct for that.

I didn´t show any color images, but the original camera´s images are slightly reddish, whereas the mod is slightly blueish. Since I shoot RAW and use WB afterwards, I couldn´t see any differences.

After all, Rainer is a very knowledgable person and it took him 4 filter sandwiches for the best formula.

CWilt wrote:

I would interested if IR sensitivity has changed. IR contamination
can be a bigger problem than morie on some fabrics.

Two ways I can think to test this. Use a TV IR remote control. Set
remote the same distance from a modified and unmodified cameras, same
lens, same exposure. The other way is to shoot something like a black
camera bag in sunlight. My Lowepro can turn purple when shot with the
D2x without a filter. As it does with some P&S models as well.

-- hide signature --

Greetings from Germany,
Pam

Some of my casual D3 images @ photoforum
http://www.fotografie.fr/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 bloomoose's gear list:bloomoose's gear list
Pentax 645D Nikon D750 Sony a7R II Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC +7 more
bloomoose
OP bloomoose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,224
Re: Total Turnaround --->

Adam, I believe that using the S3´s aa filter isn´t possible, because the thickness of the material must be the same and the S5´s filter is the thickest Rainer had ever seen .... You would get AF problems (adjusting the AF module is very difficult). Then you could also run into significant WB differences, too.

I believe that the mod turned out successful and I´m quite happy with it. But then if I compare the modified S5 to my other cameras, it just goes to show it is a years old AF module and 6 Mpix camera. It may gain some resolution, but not as much as you would hope.

-- hide signature --

Greetings from Germany,
Pam

Some of my casual D3 images @ photoforum
http://www.fotografie.fr/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 bloomoose's gear list:bloomoose's gear list
Pentax 645D Nikon D750 Sony a7R II Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC +7 more
Torchwood Contributing Member • Posts: 831
Re: Total Turnaround --->

the thickest Rainer had ever seen .... You would get AF problems

Why is this as the sensor (actual sensor) to lens mount difference would be the same - there just would be less glass in front of the sensor in thickness which shouldn't make a difference (in my reckoning anyway)

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--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

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