Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Started Feb 12, 2009 | Discussions
GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: It's the mirror in camera that reflects! not the lens.

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:
One parituclar example that
includes both of these situations, and which has already been cited
in this thread, is contra-jour lighting across open sea: the waves
exist all over the place and the sun reflections off the crests are
continuously changing.

But in practice? How often do you see it? I know I have shot against the light at sea, most notably for sunsets.

It's worth knowing about and bearing in mind though.

Still I'm interested to see how this develops.

I don't expect to see any developments. This is a problem that has
been around for ages. It isn't unique to the 5D-II. I have
replicated it on the original 5D and my first encounter with it was
in 1976 using an old Zenith E film camera.

Ah, we began with the same SLR. That was the camera that took me through my art college years. Not a bad SLR at all considering how little it cost to buy it. Somehow I can still remember it as having a unique smell. I remember reading it was made by prisoners, although how true that was I don't know.

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: Try other brands.

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

And it seems it doesn't occur in the hands of every shooter even then.

True, it only occurs to those that shoot images with bright lights
below the frame that can bounce off the back of the mirror.

As I said, Laforet for one, has.

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Its RKM Veteran Member • Posts: 3,135
Re: Try other brands.

GaryJP wrote:

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

And it seems it doesn't occur in the hands of every shooter even then.

True, it only occurs to those that shoot images with bright lights
below the frame that can bounce off the back of the mirror.

As I said, Laforet for one, has.

Refer to one which has. So far, all you have referenced is images with lights going off the top of the frame. If you test thisd yourself you'll find that isn't the problem at all.

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Its RKM

GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: Try other brands.

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

And it seems it doesn't occur in the hands of every shooter even then.

True, it only occurs to those that shoot images with bright lights
below the frame that can bounce off the back of the mirror.

As I said, Laforet for one, has.

Refer to one which has. So far, all you have referenced is images
with lights going off the top of the frame. If you test thisd
yourself you'll find that isn't the problem at all.

In both of his videos that I linked to, and particularly in the helicopter shots, there are lights going off the bottom of the frame and coming in from the bottom.

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Its RKM Veteran Member • Posts: 3,135
Re: It's the mirror in camera that reflects! not the lens.

GaryJP wrote:

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:
One parituclar example that
includes both of these situations, and which has already been cited
in this thread, is contra-jour lighting across open sea: the waves
exist all over the place and the sun reflections off the crests are
continuously changing.

But in practice? How often do you see it? I know I have shot against
the light at sea, most notably for sunsets.

Often enough to remember the hours in darkroom trying to correct the problem!

Never enough to learn how to prevent it though: a consequence of time between shooting and seeing and the relative cost of film.

I don't expect to see any developments. This is a problem that has
been around for ages. It isn't unique to the 5D-II. I have
replicated it on the original 5D and my first encounter with it was
in 1976 using an old Zenith E film camera.

Ah, we began with the same SLR. That was the camera that took me
through my art college years. Not a bad SLR at all considering how
little it cost to buy it. Somehow I can still remember it as having a
unique smell. I remember reading it was made by prisoners, although
how true that was I don't know.

You are obviously influenced more by myth than fact. By coincidence, as I had no idea this was going to come up, I was actually in the old St. Petersburg factory last week (hence my absence from this thread)
--
Its RKM

Its RKM Veteran Member • Posts: 3,135
Re: Try other brands.

GaryJP wrote:

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

And it seems it doesn't occur in the hands of every shooter even then.

True, it only occurs to those that shoot images with bright lights
below the frame that can bounce off the back of the mirror.

As I said, Laforet for one, has.

Refer to one which has. So far, all you have referenced is images
with lights going off the top of the frame. If you test thisd
yourself you'll find that isn't the problem at all.

In both of his videos that I linked to, and particularly in the
helicopter shots, there are lights going off the bottom of the frame
and coming in from the bottom.

None of them are exposed sufficiently for the out of frame lights to cause problems. The spotlights on the first sequence are not the same effect.
--
Its RKM

gilee New Member • Posts: 21
Re: Thank You!

Ooops.. I dont mean 40D, 40D is almost not there. not there I mean, the difference in flare between 180 degree flip is very minimum.

GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: It's the mirror in camera that reflects! not the lens.

Its RKM wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

Ah, we began with the same SLR. That was the camera that took me
through my art college years. Not a bad SLR at all considering how
little it cost to buy it. Somehow I can still remember it as having a
unique smell. I remember reading it was made by prisoners, although
how true that was I don't know.

You are obviously influenced more by myth than fact. By coincidence,
as I had no idea this was going to come up, I was actually in the old
St. Petersburg factory last week (hence my absence from this thread)

Not really. As I said I read it.

I tend not to believe all I read.

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Its RKM

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GaryJP
GaryJP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,594
Re: Try other brands.

Its RKM wrote:

In both of his videos that I linked to, and particularly in the
helicopter shots, there are lights going off the bottom of the frame
and coming in from the bottom.

None of them are exposed sufficiently for the out of frame lights to
cause problems. The spotlights on the first sequence are not the
same effect.

Guess he should try harder.

I've just been looking at some of my straight into sun across the sea shots (in the Maldives last year), and images from a rally in which tens of thousands of candles were being held. The candles are are often overexposed.

I guess I should try harder too.

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Its RKM Veteran Member • Posts: 3,135
Re: Try other brands.

GaryJP wrote:

I guess I should try harder too.

No, you don't need to try any harder, you already achieved plonker status a while back when you started telling us how wonderful you were at avoiding a problem you didn't even understand.

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Its RKM

Shaun Bell Senior Member • Posts: 1,267
Re: Canon fix coming!

Beat me to it lol! I was going to say the same thing....but instead a piece of velcro and a remote shutter release : )

Shaun

Edymagno wrote:

I just found out through a Japanese website that Canon is coming soon
with a fix. They are releasing an Upside-Down Grip to provide easy
180 degree shooting!
I knew Canon would not let me down.
Ed
--

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clkdiv New Member • Posts: 2
Re: Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Hello, what happened to this thread? What happened to the "flare" issue you encountered? I am about to buy a 5DMkII but I wonder if the flare-problem what solved?

Thanks a lot! Martin

DocM New Member • Posts: 19
The answer probably is . . .

This looks like light from the circular lens that is projects outside the rectangular sensor is bouncing off something directly in front of the sensor and back onto the sensor. We used to have similar problems with custom cameras. The solution was to literally darkened the aluminum aperture plate with a black Sharpie and it worked. In this case, I'm sure Canon has made everything black or even beveled, but the streetlights are so overpowering, they can't be contained. Think of a setting sun over the ocean. The reflection in the ocean is a streak, not a circle. Whatever materials Canon are using are imperfect, like an ocean surface, enough to do the same thing. Believe it or not, you should be able to look inside the body & actually see the culprit. It may be on only one side, or 2 or 3 or 4. Testing will tell.

clkdiv New Member • Posts: 2
Re: The answer probably is . . .

Okay, thank you. But what is Canon´s answer to this thing? Did they reply? And furthermore: You say the effect might be "solved" by maybe blackening some parts in the mirror housing, am I right? If so, Canon will probably alter something in the housing? Thus, will there maybe be an "older" version and a "newer" of the 5DMKII?

The most interesting question for me is: Should I really be concerned about this "flare" when buying a 5DMKII? Thanks!

millerrh Junior Member • Posts: 27
{nt}
n/t
Its RKM Veteran Member • Posts: 3,135
Re: The answer probably is . . .

clkdiv wrote:

The most interesting question for me is: Should I really be concerned
about this "flare" when buying a 5DMKII? Thanks!

Sorry, but the most interesting question for you is: 'Should I really be concerned about this "flare" when buying a Canon SLR?'.

It's been there since the AE-1, and possibly before that. If Canon were gonna fix it they surely would have done in 30 years!

Make your own mind up if they aint coz they can't, they don't know how to fix it, or they think it aint a problem.

My money's on the first one.
--
Its RKM

DocM New Member • Posts: 19
Re: The answer probably is . . .

You're right! I never offered an answer. If the flare is unacceptable, 5 solutions are 1) to dim or flag the off-camera offending lights before the lens sees them, 2) dim them at the source, 3) move the lights into or farther outside the shot, or 4) reframe until the flare's gone, or 5) Photoshop'em out.

My guess is that this type of flare can't be 100% eliminated from every potential situation without compromising camera size, quality, durability or cost. Canon, Nikon, etc have been making cameras for decades and I'm sure they've put in every light-absorbing & baffling trick there is. I remember gluing trimmed black velvet against the aperture plate & guess what? It occasionally flaked off & showed on the negative. And this was with a non-slr camera that didn't have a mirror slamming with every shot. In my opinion, today's DSLR cameras are engineering miracles, especially the Mk2.

ajchunt Regular Member • Posts: 287
Any response from Canon yet?

I've experienced this as well. I'm happy to accept the explanation that it's something we have to learn to live with, but it'd be nice to have that confirmed from the horse's (Canon's) mouth.

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Andrew

robjm New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Any response from Canon yet?

I too have this problem. Not too happy. I like night photography and haven't had this problem before. See this image:

http://www.reflectioncom.com/night/

Can't make big prints of that picture without people noticing strange stray bits of light that don't even seem to have a source point. I may be responsible though since I only 'cupped' the eye piece with my hand (not touching) to block light from behind. Does anyone think this might be the problem?

Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,567
No -- that's not why you cover the eyepiece

During exposure, light entering through the eyepiece is blocked from entering the main chamber of the camera. The purpose of covering the eyepiece is to prevent light entering messing with the exposure meter. If you can see through the lens through the viewfinder, then light entering the eyepiece can affect exposure. During exposure, you can't see through the lens because the light path is blocked. It is blocked just as effectively to incoming light as it is to your eyeball viewing through the eyepiece.
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