Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Started Feb 12, 2009 | Discussions
elgeorgio Forum Member • Posts: 59
Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Hi Ppl !

I recently got my 5DmkII and been having good fun with it.

I was playing about and got the shot bellow. Notice the strange flare at the bottom ?

I tried with EF24-105l at 3 different focal lengths, with EF50/1.4, EF70-300, Zeis Planar T* 50 and all created the same problem.
If I shoot the same scene in portrait or upside down I see no flare.
Same problem with shooting through live view (all 3 "silent shoot" modes)
All shots where taken with lens hoods on.
Same shot with my 40D shows no such problems.

To reproduce the problem I have to take any bright light/object on an overall dark scene a bit bellow the viewing area. How far bellow does not appear to be critical.

Can you please check and report back if you have the same problem ?

It is definitely not firmware related because the lights are not on the sensor.
Lens flare I have ruled out for a number of reasons.
Mirror movement reflection is also out because of live view with same problem.
The only remaining moving part is the curtain. How reflective is it ??

Anyway, I hope I get some replies 'cause this looks bad.

Many thanks

George

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MitchAlsup Veteran Member • Posts: 4,820
Street Light

The light has the width and color of a modern street light while illuminated green.
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OP elgeorgio Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: Street Light

MitchAlsup wrote:

The light has the width and color of a modern street light while
illuminated green.

Mitch, the green flare is from a wide neon light from a shop window. The others are from street lights.
Please, if you have the camera do the same test.
Cheers
George

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Mitch

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Ross Murphy Senior Member • Posts: 1,968
Re: Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Nothing to do with camera, you are seeing lens flare that is normal, there are lights just below the image.
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OP elgeorgio Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Ross Murphy wrote:

Nothing to do with camera, you are seeing lens flare that is normal,
there are lights just below the image.
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Ross, this is NOT lens flare. I tested it with 4 lenses and I have many more. It's some sort of internal reflection. It's also visible on video and live view.
If I shoot upside down is not there.
It is not happening with my 40D with same lens.

It is possible that it's not just my 5DII. Check yours and post back.

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qballfl Regular Member • Posts: 291
Normal...

It is Normal. You can get a much better shot of this scene using less than 3200iso and lengthening the shutter exposure.

Instead of your settings,

f4/iso3200/shutter .8seconds...try
f4/iso200/shutter 5-10 seconds depending on light...

Experiment around there and u will get much better shots of nice night scenes. Tripod required, but it looks like you used one already.

OP elgeorgio Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: Normal...

Come on ppl, this is a specific test shot !!!!
It's not meant to be nice, It was taken hand held.

I just can't believe that you find this normal !!!
Did you read the post at all ??????

Try for yourselves.. Shoot some video in a similar scene and move the camera up and down.

qballfl wrote:

It is Normal. You can get a much better shot of this scene using less
than 3200iso and lengthening the shutter exposure.

Instead of your settings,

f4/iso3200/shutter .8seconds...try
f4/iso200/shutter 5-10 seconds depending on light...

Experiment around there and u will get much better shots of nice
night scenes. Tripod required, but it looks like you used one already.

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Edymagno Veteran Member • Posts: 3,333
Re: Normal...

Man...

It really looks like flare from street lights in random pattern and color. However it's interesting that you say it disappears by shooting with the camera upside down.
Can you provide a different setup? I mean, different time and location?
Eduardo

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KyTom Regular Member • Posts: 475
Re: Normal...

Okay guys, if this is normal and the flairs are because of street lights, why isn't there flairs from the street lights to the right of the photo??? Just wondering. I'm not sure, just asking.
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rrcphoto Veteran Member • Posts: 6,173
Re: Normal...

the only thing I can think of (and btw you wouldn't see this on a 40D because the sensor is smaller), is that the light is strong enough outside of the FF sensor area, but still in the image circle and bouncing up off the bottom of the mirror box.

don't forget the lens projects a circlular image a 40D crop will take a much smaller segment of that, whereas the FF sensor will take a much larger section.

inside the mirror box should be black baffled to prevent that as much as possible. it is however, still possible depending on what ISO you are using, and also how long that even the best baffling isn't exactly 100.000000000% non light reflective.

since the mirror swings up, it wouldn't reflecting off the bottom of the mirror since it's in the wrong spot, so it must be something near the sensor, close to the bottom of the mirror box.

Fritz Byle Contributing Member • Posts: 532
Re: Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Interesting. Folks, remember that the image projected from the lens onto the sensor is inverted, so that what you see as the bottom of the image is really coming form the top of the sensor. The observation that the "flares" do not appear when the camera is inverted seems to indicate that there is a reflection from above, perhaps a component in the mirror box?

Look carefully at the light path from the lens mount toward the sensor with the mirror in both down and up positions. Are there any suspects that might reflect light from the top of the image circle back onto the sensor?
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Jimmy G Regular Member • Posts: 239
Re: Strange flare with 5dII. Please check.

Hi elgeorgio,

Hmmm, I'm curious...would it be possible for you to do this same shot using mirror lockup first?

Peace,
Jimmy G

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Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,372
Cover the view finder while taking the pic.

You are seeing light leakage coming in from the view finder. One of the things I really miss when using the 5D/5D Mk II; the viewfinder shutter of the 1 series.

Steven

Randfee Regular Member • Posts: 308
yeah, must be it. Definitely NOT normal!!! (nt)
n/t
OP elgeorgio Forum Member • Posts: 59
No one tested it ???

Hi again.

Didn't anyone test this ?

PLEASE if there is anybody out there that owns a 5DmkII just take a couple of pictures and let us know.

I contacted Canon and they said that this should not be happening and the camera should be returned for check and possible repair.

Now I am REALLY curious, is it just my camera or more people have it ?

I'll take some more pictures and post later.
Cheers

George

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Jay Bean Veteran Member • Posts: 3,661
Re: Cover the view finder while taking the pic.

Can't be viewfinder leakage. The OP said the flare lines up with lights that are in -- but below -- the scene.

Steven Noyes wrote:

You are seeing light leakage coming in from the view finder. One of
the things I really miss when using the 5D/5D Mk II; the viewfinder
shutter of the 1 series.

Steven

Jay Bean Veteran Member • Posts: 3,661
No barrell distortion

It's internal reflection of some kind, most likely within the camera itself. Notice how there's no barrel distortion of the flare even in the areas where there is barrel distortion of the scene. Just a speculation but perhaps the mirror isn't folding up completely and light is catching the edge of it?

elgeorgio wrote:

Hi Ppl !

I recently got my 5DmkII and been having good fun with it.

I was playing about and got the shot bellow. Notice the strange flare
at the bottom ?
I tried with EF24-105l at 3 different focal lengths, with EF50/1.4,
EF70-300, Zeis Planar T* 50 and all created the same problem.
If I shoot the same scene in portrait or upside down I see no flare.
Same problem with shooting through live view (all 3 "silent shoot"
modes)
All shots where taken with lens hoods on.
Same shot with my 40D shows no such problems.

To reproduce the problem I have to take any bright light/object on an
overall dark scene a bit bellow the viewing area. How far bellow does
not appear to be critical.

Can you please check and report back if you have the same problem ?

It is definitely not firmware related because the lights are not on
the sensor.
Lens flare I have ruled out for a number of reasons.
Mirror movement reflection is also out because of live view with same
problem.
The only remaining moving part is the curtain. How reflective is it ??

Anyway, I hope I get some replies 'cause this looks bad.

Many thanks

George

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Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 17,834
I'll do a test tonight

It looks like maybe it's a reflection from the top of the inside of the housing. If you notice in this picture (taken from the review just posted), it is not symmetrical top to bottom, which would explain why turning the camera upside-down helps.

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OP elgeorgio Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: I'll do a test tonight

Victor, you are right, it is the top of the housing (backside of mirror).

It is the material used that looks really reflective on my camera. The bottom is a LOT less reflective.

A weak (power-wise) laser pointer DEFOCUSED (just in case you want to try it too) revealed everything.

Have to run home, will post the rest and some more pics.
I also want to compare the 40D's and 20D's mirror assembly material to the 5D's.

I'm afraid this looks bad.

Please someone else do some tests ????

Later..
George
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rrcphoto Veteran Member • Posts: 6,173
Re: I'll do a test tonight

if you got your cam at a local shop .. I'd take it in and try another one to see if you get the same effect. the laser might not be a good test, because it's highly concentrated light, and as a matter of fact, I'd be quite careful shining a laser onto a sensor .. even low power...

if you can, get a dentists mirror thingy where you can see the actual underside of the mirror and see if it looks like it's not coated the same or partially coated.

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