Canon 5D vs Sony A900 Antartic 2009

Started Feb 7, 2009 | Discussions
nbercasio Senior Member • Posts: 2,498
Canon 5D vs Sony A900 Antartic 2009
madzazulu Senior Member • Posts: 1,311
We've seen this billion times...(nt)
Karma Traveler Regular Member • Posts: 494
Trolling from the Sony boards?

nbercasio wrote:

"What Worked – What Didn't"

6 of the 26 EOS 5DmkII's were used in that trip failed, so it gave a fair idea of what the 5DmkII can and cannot do.

However, there were only 2 Sony A900's used in that trip. It is UTTERLY FOOLISH for anyone to draw any kind of conclusion from just 2 bodies. And it's even dumber for you to troll the Canon boards with only that as a basis.

From what I've read in that article, 52 people took Canon gear into the Antarctica... and only 1 guy took Sony gear (both A900's). The only other conclusion we can draw from that article is that Sony has a long, long, LONG ways to go. Not many professionals take that system very seriously.

A Owens Veteran Member • Posts: 3,414
Re: Trolling from the Sony boards?

I really like the look of the SOny system and favoured it as a replacement to my 5d when I eventually feel the need to do so.

However I found Micheal's comments regarding the A900's propensity to randomly apply noise to even low ISO images rather unsettling.

gaborszantai Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: Trolling from the Sony boards?

It's trolling? I would not believe it...

"I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from this high percentage of 5D MKII failures. All I can do is report on the facts of the matter. As for the weather during which most of the failures happened, it was no worse than a drizzly day in winter in New York or Berlin. Nothing Antarctic about it at all."

This shame, nothing more...

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,181
No need to troll from the sony camp...

Karma Traveler wrote:

The only other conclusion we can draw from that article is that Sony has
a long, long, LONG ways to go. Not many professionals take that
system very seriously.

Yep, but those who do come back home with photographs and not paperweights.

Old Timer63
Old Timer63 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,557
The ones that worked were with...

the photographers who used a bit of common sense and weren't foolish enough to push a prosumer camera beyond what Canon advise. It's as simple as that.

You see it all the time, people drive cars around like they can't get injured till they crash and break their necks and then(if still alive) complain to the road authority that the bend was too sharp or the tyres gave out at twice the specified speed rating.

Still, what do I know (as Numfar kindly pointed out in the other thread like a fool) I don't know what I'm on about after 40 years of not having a camera fail due to adverse conditions.
Just use a bit of common sense (lacking in a lot of photogs! no names:-)

BTW, will we find out whether the cameras that broke down were being used whilst scuba diving:-)
Give a camera to the ice road truckers is what I say:-)
--
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rockrose Regular Member • Posts: 140
Re: Canon 5D vs Sony A900 Antartic 2009
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I don't think this should be a 'Canon vs Sony' issue. The only A900 user (MR) didn't have problems, that may be coincidence, maybe it's not. I hope for A900 owners it is, apart from being a camera with a very good IQ, also weather resistant.

Of the 5D mkII users 6 out of 26 had a failure, 3 of them failed totally. I don't know if that's a 'normal' percentage of camera failure in conditions (moist), the manual specifically warns against.

OTOH when the majority of other gear functions perfectly in the same conditions, it is reasonable to think the mkII has a design flaw. And mkII owners are entitled to a reaction from Canon, what to expect from future use of this new camera. I don't live near Antarctica, but in my country the weather is often wet, fog, rain, snow, cold etc. Must I leave my mkII indoors except for sunny, dry days (about 20 every year)?

I saved money a long time for my mkII, I would like to think I can use it - within reason and normal protection - in different weather conditions.

cityphotographer Senior Member • Posts: 2,510
statistics

may be an opinion but also may not

2 sony

26 5DII

and you drive a conclusion based on statistics?

I mean..

what you do (when you write a report and give stats) is this:

use 26 sony

use 26 canon

and then you report the stats.

like this is more like gambling with numbers.

that said the failures reported are significant, and scary.

Shangrila Forum Member • Posts: 92
Re: statistics

we don't have to care about sony as canon-users. but 6 out of 26 under obviously not so bad conditions is very very bad.

cityphotographer wrote:

may be an opinion but also may not

2 sony

26 5DII

and you drive a conclusion based on statistics?

I mean..

what you do (when you write a report and give stats) is this:

use 26 sony

use 26 canon

and then you report the stats.

like this is more like gambling with numbers.

that said the failures reported are significant, and scary.

xtoph Veteran Member • Posts: 9,871
not so fast

Dave Chilvers wrote:

the photographers who used a bit of common sense and weren't foolish
enough to push a prosumer camera beyond what Canon advise. It's as
simple as that.

there's no indication that anyone pushed the camera beyond what canon advises. in fact, canon has been touting the 5d2 as 'more' weather resistant than the mkI.

which is a good thing, since my mkI died from weather-related injuries. and no, i haven't killed any of my other cameras, which i used the same way for many decades.

i find this report quite troubling. i believe i will be more fastidious about condensation than i have been in the past.

Old Timer63
Old Timer63 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,557
Re: not so fast

xtoph wrote:

Dave Chilvers wrote:

the photographers who used a bit of common sense and weren't foolish
enough to push a prosumer camera beyond what Canon advise. It's as
simple as that.

there's no indication that anyone pushed the camera beyond what canon
advises. in fact, canon has been touting the 5d2 as 'more' weather
resistant than the mkI.

which is a good thing, since my mkI died from weather-related
injuries. and no, i haven't killed any of my other cameras, which i
used the same way for many decades.

i find this report quite troubling. i believe i will be more
fastidious about condensation than i have been in the past.

Look, I agree with it would have been nice not to be reading this about(what is otherwise a supeb bit of kit) the 5D2. The acid test would be give me (or you)one of each camera, let ME use them under similar operating conditions, doing the same things to each and see what happens. Taking a group of photogs (we have no idea how compedent they were) under those hyped up conditions maybe all jostling for the shots while it lasted etc and we all know that people are going to just go for the shot.

I'm not knocking the Sony, I hope it is a great camera and can produce images every bit as good as the 5D2.(why wouldn't I)

However, I do think that any modern camera should easily be able to cope with being pulled out of the bag in rain, take a few shots and put it back (I know my 1 series can do that time and time again) but I'm not doing that with my prosumer 5D2.

Now, condensation is maybe another matter. The only time I might come up against bad condensation conditions is walking into a cafe or fish and chip shop in the winter under conditions where your spectacles mist up and that would be on the borderline for me. Home is no problem because we are oil fired and it is so expensive that we can't afford to get the house as hot as we would like:-)

I purposely haven't put a battery grip on my5D2 to make it my light camera for walk about so maybe (as mentioned) that might open up parts that could fail.

When I'm out shooting on the beach on in the countryside I am no mamby pamby and regularily put lenses or a second body down in grass or corn whilst changing lenses or setting up and this has inc the 5D2 for the last couple of months just like I've always done with no ill effects.

I mentioned common sense! isn't not walking into a hot steamy cafe when temps are minus outside showing common sense? I was up well before dawn during the last week on one day, drove up to the local mud quay and salt marsh, temps were -5, foggy, ice damp and I stood their for 1 hr before dawn and after then a walk around for a couple of hrs, still showed more than 50% battery, moisture everywhere after the sun can up, stuck the camera gear in the car, drove home and downloaded some excellent shots. That's all I could ever ask of my gear. It didn't actually rain but if it had of then there is no way I would have left the camera stuck out on the tripod getting soaking wet.

This will go on and on because we just were not their and people with failures quite often butter up the situation to save face.

I hope I'm not proved wrong because I certainly don't want to have to part with my copy of this camera that seems perfect in every way.

Could something have been left out of some cameras, like a gasket?? could it be the seal (or lack of it) where the grip pokes up into the grip?

What we need are a number of failures during average use from a good number of people before we can evaluate it properly and even then we will only have others words for it (and that's not knocking anyone in particular)

If it is proven that the camera is liable to problems around damp then I will take extra care because the files I'm getting from it are every bit as good as my 1dsmk3 (in fact sharper out of the camera in raw)

Where are the ice road truckers when we need them:-)

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I feel so much better now that I've given up Hope

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KEITH-C Forum Pro • Posts: 14,131
Re: statistics

I would be careful about trying to make statistics work for you - these failures happened in a very short time & that means given a longer period the presumption must be that they all would have failed !
--
Keith-C

apixel Contributing Member • Posts: 591
Re: statistics

Exactly. This also means that 20 5DII's were fine. More than the 2 Sony's. If there was a design flaw in the 5DII, then 26 would have failed, and at this point, we should all be worried.

-A

cityphotographer wrote:

may be an opinion but also may not

2 sony

26 5DII

and you drive a conclusion based on statistics?

I mean..

what you do (when you write a report and give stats) is this:

use 26 sony

use 26 canon

and then you report the stats.

like this is more like gambling with numbers.

that said the failures reported are significant, and scary.

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Photo gallery at: http://www.fotophoto.net/

Sal Baker Forum Pro • Posts: 11,490
Re: statistics

KEITH-C wrote:

I would be careful about trying to make statistics work for you -
these failures happened in a very short time & that means given a
longer period the presumption must be that they all would have failed
!

The only 5DII failure that M.R. could speak to from actual use was the one he took. And he says it was a tester camera that may have had water damage before he received it. Who knows how well the other cameras where treated. Were they testers too? Had the users bought them with their own money? All this speaks to how the gear was handled.

It's concerning that it happened, but a test with 26 A900's and 2 5DII's might have come out differently, no?

Sal

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OP nbercasio Senior Member • Posts: 2,498
Re: statistics

5D recall...

http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/02/canon-eos-5d-recall/

apixel wrote:
Exactly. This also means that 20 5DII's were fine. More than the 2
Sony's. If there was a design flaw in the 5DII, then 26 would have
failed, and at this point, we should all be worried.

-A

cityphotographer wrote:

may be an opinion but also may not

2 sony

26 5DII

and you drive a conclusion based on statistics?

I mean..

what you do (when you write a report and give stats) is this:

use 26 sony

use 26 canon

and then you report the stats.

like this is more like gambling with numbers.

that said the failures reported are significant, and scary.

apixel Contributing Member • Posts: 591
Re: statistics

No ... all that means is that those 6 were either mistreated or they indeed had a problem. Otherwise, they would have all failed equally. The important variable is how these cameras were treated - which we don't know. You also don't know if the Sony's would have survived in the hands of the people that had 5DII's failed, or if there were 26 Sony's.

Think about it this way, if the trip had 2 5DII's, and these were 2 of the ones that had no problems, we wouldn't have any of these threads about their failure in Antartica.

I've gone in and out of the cold a few times already for the past 3 weeks. Can you make a presumption about that? ( I do put mine in a sealed bag for a little while if the temp change is too drastic )

I'm more concerned about finding the right information on how to protect my camera from environmental changes than what kind of changes it can withstand on it's own ... which "might" be in the difference in treatment between the ones that failed and the ones that didn't.

KEITH-C wrote:

I would be careful about trying to make statistics work for you -
these failures happened in a very short time & that means given a
longer period the presumption must be that they all would have failed
!
--
Keith-C

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Photo gallery at: http://www.fotophoto.net/

Sal Baker Forum Pro • Posts: 11,490
Re: statistics

nbercasio wrote:

5D recall...

http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/02/canon-eos-5d-recall/

Uhm...this thread is about the 5DII. The 5D was released 3 years ago. Nice try though.

Sal

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apixel Contributing Member • Posts: 591
Re: statistics

Mirror falling after a few years on the original 5D? What does that have to do with this thread about the 5DII?

nbercasio wrote:

5D recall...

http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/02/canon-eos-5d-recall/

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Dayo Senior Member • Posts: 2,837
The OP is a well known pathetic Sony Zealot

Just ignore him.

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'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
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