forthcoming D3X pro review

Started Feb 5, 2009 | Discussions
CMalsingh Senior Member • Posts: 1,557
Re: Where is the review?

dchphoto wrote:

It's coming. I was going to post conclusions first and then the files
when I find an appropriate hosting site. But since I am already
getting attacked before I even start, I will probably wait

Don't be put off by the trolls. Most of them just need to express an opinion, whatever the thread.

-- hide signature --

Colin Malsingh
-------------------
http://www.pbase.com/cmalsingh

OP dchphoto Regular Member • Posts: 381
Re: Where is the review?

Ok. For those of you who are reading this thread and are portrait/wedding photographers and are genuinely interested in my review, I have a poll. Would you prefer...

1. Sections of the review to be published first with conclusions and follow up with the Nef's on a hosting site later?

2. Wait until the entire review is done and post all at once with NEF's following later.

3. Wait until the review and NEF's are done together and post at once.

Here are my thoughts.

There is a lot to say about the D3x. As soon as I think I have exhausted a topic, there is more I learn. It might be a long while before I finish the complete review. The conclusions I have drawn can easily be tested by D3x owners. For those without the D3x, waiting for the NEF files will not take anything away in the short term. Plus I hope the review will aid those who are contemplating getting a future d700x. Also, as many have pointed out, I will not be able to satisfy the trolls no matter what I do. The forum has been a tremendous help to me and it will be worth it to get attacked if the review will help those for whom it is written. I do not claim to be an expert in all matters photographic, but I am a working pro who must get top quality from the files I produce as I have clients who appreciate and pay for top results. I have migrated from the S5 to the D700 to the D3x in a short time and have learned a tremendous amount that will be valuable to those interested in learning. I'm not a camera snob and will be objective in the review. The review is from the standpoint of a real world portrait/wedding photographer and my testing is limited to the performance of the camera in that context. The issues are related exclusively to the portrait/wedding context. If someone feels the need to disagree, that is perfectly fine. It is possible that there is some sample variation in the camera and the more discussion we have about it the better. I will respond to honest inquiry. However, trolls, who want to take pot shots for no other reason than to satisfy their own egos will not be responded to. My website is at http://www.harrislightcraft.com where anyone can go and assess my skills for themselves. Most of those images were taken with the Fuji S5- a camera that I love and has never let me down one time (except when printing big!). My migration to the D3x has been client driven for the most part as bigger than 20x24 is just not something the s5 can keep up with except in an extremely limited context.

So I am thinking I will start the review in parts in different threads and open up the discussion for honest learners. I want to get one of my clients to come in my studio and do some modeling for me so I can have more portrait samples. But that will take a bit of time to do right. But I will wait if everyone would rather have the files at the same time.

What say ye??

deuxcent
deuxcent Senior Member • Posts: 1,324
Re: Where is the review?

If you want to post a review, post it. If not, that's fine too. Unless you're Thom Hogan or another well-known authority on the topic, I doubt that anyone truly cares about when and how and in how many installments some stranger will present his opinion. Though maybe your prose will be like manna from the heavens, ya never know.

dc

dchphoto wrote:

Ok. For those of you who are reading this thread and are
portrait/wedding photographers and are genuinely interested in my
review, I have a poll. Would you prefer...

1. Sections of the review to be published first with conclusions and
follow up with the Nef's on a hosting site later?

2. Wait until the entire review is done and post all at once with
NEF's following later.

3. Wait until the review and NEF's are done together and post at once.

Here are my thoughts.

There is a lot to say about the D3x. As soon as I think I have
exhausted a topic, there is more I learn. It might be a long while
before I finish the complete review. The conclusions I have drawn can
easily be tested by D3x owners. For those without the D3x, waiting
for the NEF files will not take anything away in the short term. Plus
I hope the review will aid those who are contemplating getting a
future d700x. Also, as many have pointed out, I will not be able to
satisfy the trolls no matter what I do. The forum has been a
tremendous help to me and it will be worth it to get attacked if the
review will help those for whom it is written. I do not claim to be
an expert in all matters photographic, but I am a working pro who
must get top quality from the files I produce as I have clients who
appreciate and pay for top results. I have migrated from the S5 to
the D700 to the D3x in a short time and have learned a tremendous
amount that will be valuable to those interested in learning. I'm not
a camera snob and will be objective in the review. The review is from
the standpoint of a real world portrait/wedding photographer and my
testing is limited to the performance of the camera in that context.
The issues are related exclusively to the portrait/wedding context.
If someone feels the need to disagree, that is perfectly fine. It is
possible that there is some sample variation in the camera and the
more discussion we have about it the better. I will respond to honest
inquiry. However, trolls, who want to take pot shots for no other
reason than to satisfy their own egos will not be responded to. My
website is at http://www.harrislightcraft.com where anyone can go and assess
my skills for themselves. Most of those images were taken with the
Fuji S5- a camera that I love and has never let me down one time
(except when printing big!). My migration to the D3x has been client
driven for the most part as bigger than 20x24 is just not something
the s5 can keep up with except in an extremely limited context.

So I am thinking I will start the review in parts in different
threads and open up the discussion for honest learners. I want to get
one of my clients to come in my studio and do some modeling for me so
I can have more portrait samples. But that will take a bit of time to
do right. But I will wait if everyone would rather have the files at
the same time.

What say ye??
--

 deuxcent's gear list:deuxcent's gear list
Fujifilm X100F Nikon D750 Sony a7 III Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
OP dchphoto Regular Member • Posts: 381
Re: Where is the review?

deuxcent wrote:

If you want to post a review, post it. If not, that's fine too.
Unless you're Thom Hogan or another well-known authority on the
topic, I doubt that anyone truly cares about when and how and in how
many installments some stranger will present his opinion. Though
maybe your prose will be like manna from the heavens, ya never know.

hahahah. Yes. You will feel all tingly inside just from reading it! Since there are not many owners of the camera who have posted a review and none I have seen from a portrait/wedding perspective, I think there are many who would find it valuable. There are plenty of things I could be doing with my time other than spending dozens of hours making a review for free on this site. But I would not be doing it if I did not have something useful and different to contribute.

Remko_S Junior Member • Posts: 25
Re: Where is the review?

Hi Don,

I am very much looking forward to your review and appreciate the amount of time you will put in it.

It is more than ok with me to read sections of your review first ..... and can waite for the conclusions and links to NEFs.
So I choose for option 1.

cheers,
Remko

deuxcent
deuxcent Senior Member • Posts: 1,324
Re: Where is the review?

I'd read it, man, I really would. But bellyaching in public about when and in how many parts and over what time span to publish your review is -- OK, it IS "different," I'll give you that.

Useful? Not so much.

Simply publish your review when you're good and ready. So far, all we've gotten is a chimerical offering wrapped in layers of self-importance.

dc

dchphoto wrote:

I would not be doing
it if I did not have something useful and different to contribute.

 deuxcent's gear list:deuxcent's gear list
Fujifilm X100F Nikon D750 Sony a7 III Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
OP dchphoto Regular Member • Posts: 381
Re: Where is the review?

Remko Stibbe wrote:

Hi Don,

I am very much looking forward to your review and appreciate the
amount of time you will put in it.

It is more than ok with me to read sections of your review first
..... and can waite for the conclusions and links to NEFs.
So I choose for option 1.

cheers,
Remko

Remko, the conclusions will be there too. I just think there is useful info that people can use/test now. It does take a lot of time to do properly. Good files are necessary and will come too.

OP dchphoto Regular Member • Posts: 381
Re: Where is the review?

deuxcent wrote:

Simply publish your review when you're good and ready. So far, all
we've gotten is a chimerical offering wrapped in layers of
self-importance.

dc

Haha. point taken. I don't mean to come across that way. I just feel I have info that has not been discussed about the D3x. Not that it matters what I think. It ultimately does not.

Jeff Hicks Regular Member • Posts: 117
Re: Where is the review?

Don

Why not create a pdf document that you upload and only give out the download address to those of us who are interested in what your findings are? I've a hosting site that could be used for this if you'd like.
--
Mine: http://flickr.com/photos/7955626@N03/

Gweeds Regular Member • Posts: 482
Re: Where is the review?

Just get the damn thing up man
--

'All the technique in the world doesn’t compensate for the inability to notice.' - Elliott

Erwitt | 'It's no good saying 'hold it' to a moment in real life.' - Lord Snowdon

thomasfxlt Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: Where is the review?

Don's work is pretty darn nice. Why don't we just read what he has to say about the D3x. I think it's great that he's going to give a "wedding shooter" perspective of it. Let's be honest, photography isn't just art, it's marketing too. If Don has found some new hooks that ring true with his customers, good for him.

Thom Hogan wasn't always THOM HOGAN.
--
http://www.forsythephotography.com

 thomasfxlt's gear list:thomasfxlt's gear list
Nikon D3X Nikon D5 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +5 more
Rexyinc
Rexyinc Regular Member • Posts: 433
Re: forthcoming D3X pro review

kewl, installments is great.. so common already - get cracking mate!..

now, - everyone used to bitch about iso 200 holding them back when doing daylight flash. why and how - and how's the d3x native iso 100 fix this in daylight now?

two - how do we check to see if our d3x's have noise problems, and what is acceptable noise in what iso's.. I found myself yesterday using iso 6400 even, as i was a bit lazy and had a lot of 'abnormal' situations to deal with ( being in the middle of a massive bush fire for one - talk about added unwanted 'stress'! )

for the most part I forgot about the rig and just treated it like I would my d3 and got on with the job, in the end i only used 'd3' mode for 58 shots out of the 468 i took.. that part will take some getting used to i guess.

elliotn Senior Member • Posts: 1,994
Re: Where is the review?

this is like waiting for godot...

Daves602
Daves602 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,640
I withdraw my offer

I have not received an email from you confirming or otherwise. Your post seems like too much grandious bravado, and as others have said, self importance.
I hope you enjoy the D3x for photography, not for pose value.

-- hide signature --

Warm regards, Dave.
Australian NPS member
http://www.dksphotography.smugmug.com

 Daves602's gear list:Daves602's gear list
Nikon D3 Nikon D300S Nikon D810 Nikon AF DX Fisheye-Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +25 more
OP dchphoto Regular Member • Posts: 381
Re: I withdraw my offer

Daves602 wrote:

I have not received an email from you confirming or otherwise. Your
post seems like too much grandious bravado, and as others have said,
self importance.
I hope you enjoy the D3x for photography, not for pose value.

Sorry I did not get to you in time Dave. Thanks anyway. There is a photographer in my city who does amazing senior photography. World class stuff. He also has an ego the size of California. He is good. He knows he is good. And does not mind telling you how good he is. And lots of people don't like him . He is, however, a terrific teacher of photography for those who can get beyond the ego. So whether you think I am pompous or an ego maniac really doesn't matter in regards to the information I present. If I come off that way, it really isn't my intent. But if you can only learn from someone who measures up to your own standards of humility, you probably don't learn from many people.

Ivan S Abrams Forum Member • Posts: 76
Re: forthcoming D3X pro review

Yunfat's comments are unnecessarily nasty and inappropriate. How could he possibly be able to evaluate the photos of another photographer without having actually seen them? "Less than stellar?" Impossible to give credence to that assertion based on the complete lack of objectivity.

These forum threads seem to inevitably disintegrate into egocentric displays of ignorance and bad manners, regardless of the initial merit of the discussion.

Rexyinc
Rexyinc Regular Member • Posts: 433
Re: I withdraw my offer

i've been using http://www.getdropbox.com for a while now- you get 2gb's of free storage and you just treat the 'online' storage as just another folder in your OS, mac or windows.. when you drop a image file nef or jpg or whatever in it, right click on the file, and find the menu option that says ' copy public link' and paste away here.

you can remove, change or whatever you like to these files as if they are sitting on your HD, and your pc doesn't get the downloads or whatever from everyone , the dropbox server takes care of all that..

try it out, you'll love it. quick simple and fast etc. even my models / clients are using it, they open up a private shared folder with my email addy - i get a key in and then we can both use the folder to upload, delete change image files etc upto 2gbs.

my clients love it, they get their thumbnails and proofs straight away and the finished images once i process them. .so stress no dvd sent via mail and no clogged email boxes hehe

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,713
Re: bundled, free, and theories of value

Eamon Hickey wrote:

As I pointed out, they could have ameliorated the situation
considerably by taking a more Lexus type approach and bundling high
perceived value things that cost little.

As it happens, I had dinner and a beer with a senior Nikon DSLR
executive a couple weeks ago -- an old friend from my days there. I
don't want to get him in trouble by quoting him directly, but he let
me know that the budget on the D3X is modest; they aren't making all
that many.

That's as Thom, I and a few others suspected. The D3x is a place holder, to show that Nikon is the top of the DSLR tree, which must be part of the reason for pricing it at the same nominal level as the 1DIII. The D700x will be the money shot, which is why it will be along sooner rather than later. It will, however, inevitably cause a reduction in gruntlement for some d3x customers, but many shelled out in full knowledge that the D700x would be along sooner rather than later.

Sure Nikon must cover their costs. However, what ARE their costs? A
quick breakdown analysis of a D3x shows that its costs are pretty
close (nearly identical) to a D3, which sells for quite a bit less.
Thus, the D3x price is artificially floated at its current level.

Hmmm. "Artificially floated"? Are we edging into Marx's Labor Theory
of Value here, Thom? (Not that there's anything wrong with a
little Marx on a Saturday morning.) If Nikon is pricing the D3X based
on classical capitalist market theories of value (which they do),
they should set the price at the highest level that will still sell
the number of units they want to make. If they price it at $5,000 but
can only make 500 units a month, and it's on heavy backorder for
three years, they've underpriced (undervalued) the product -- they're
leaving money on the table. Now I realize you know all this stuff,
and I hope you realize I'm just having a little philosophical fun
here.

The problem is, what it does for the rest of their offering. The 5DII caused considerable dismay amongst the canon faithful, when they realised that the $8k price tag of the 1DsIII was pure margin. While the accountants say don't leave money on the table, it's not great marketing to leave you customer base feeling gouged. As Thom pointed out, there were ways round that, well understood in other industries. Like, for instance, Volkswagen, which is quite capable of selling the same car as an Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda at a huge price differential without their customers feeling gouged. I remember a meal I was at with a VW executive and a high-up EU official The EU official was about to buy a Golf for his wife. The VW guy said he should get a Seat, because it was exactly the same car and 2/3 the price. "But it's not a Golf, and she wants a Golf" was the response.

So bottom line, at least for me, is that we won't know if Nikon
really made a mistake of any substance on the D3X price until a) we
see if they make budget on it and b) we see if there's any real (i.e.
lasting) reputation damage. I believe you think it's already evident
that Nikon made at least some mistake (yes/no?), whereas I would say,
at this point, time will tell.

The key event will be the release of the D700x. I can't see how the market will let that be priced above $4k, which gives Nikon a tricky problem - explaining why the 700ness to 3ness costs $1k without an 'x' and $4k with it. I can't see there's an easy way round that conundrum, customer relations wise.I also don't believe that Nikon can avoid fielding a D700x soon, the a900 and 5DII have shown there's a market there, and Nikon simply isn't playing at the moment - in fact it's losing some customers.

The best I could think of is to cripple the D700x so it doesn't really perform as well as the D3x (maybe D300 14-bit mode rather than the D3x one), but that would leave a bad taste, too.

Another scenario that makes some sense (though not much) is that the D3x really is an isolated low volume product, which would explain the use of a variant of an existing sensor. In that case, the d700x might use one of the higher resolution variants of the D3 sensor, and appear as something different again.

-- hide signature --

Bob

OP dchphoto Regular Member • Posts: 381
Re: I withdraw my offer

Great tip thanks! I am planning to finish what I have so far and post my findings in one simple post within the next few days. Should be helpful to those wanting a D700x too.

Rexyinc wrote:

i've been using http://www.getdropbox.com for a while now- you get 2gb's of
free storage and you just treat the 'online' storage as just another
folder in your OS, mac or windows.. when you drop a image file nef or
jpg or whatever in it, right click on the file, and find the menu
option that says ' copy public link' and paste away here.

you can remove, change or whatever you like to these files as if they
are sitting on your HD, and your pc doesn't get the downloads or
whatever from everyone , the dropbox server takes care of all that..

try it out, you'll love it. quick simple and fast etc. even my models
/ clients are using it, they open up a private shared folder with my
email addy - i get a key in and then we can both use the folder to
upload, delete change image files etc upto 2gbs.

my clients love it, they get their thumbnails and proofs straight
away and the finished images once i process them. .so stress no dvd
sent via mail and no clogged email boxes hehe

Adman Contributing Member • Posts: 992
This is like waiting for the D4 announcement.....

.....ROFL, [joke!].

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