F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Started Feb 5, 2009 | Discussions
Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,437
F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

I've downloaded the 12mp and 6mp images from DC Impress and produced crops and processed versions (with and without Neat Image) to compare them and see how good they can look.

Bottom line ... probably the best social snapshooter in years.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/02/fuji-f200exr-at-1600-iso.html

Here's the album from which the images come ...

http://letkeman.net/Photos/f200exr1600iso

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Photofreak7 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Kim Letkeman wrote:

I've downloaded the 12mp and 6mp images from DC Impress and produced
crops and processed versions (with and without Neat Image) to compare
them and see how good they can look.

They look promising -but- why in the world didn't Fuji lighten up on processing at lower ISO?

Bottom line ... probably the best social snapshooter in years.

But the question is will it equal or better the F31fd? ... with decent IS (1-2 stops at least) and 'close to F31' ISO1600 it may end up with a lot of friends... I hope that dpreview will bump the F200EXR review to the top of their list and compare it to the F31 (from '06 - Wow time sure flies when the MP war rages!)

  • Matt

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/02/fuji-f200exr-at-1600-iso.html

Here's the album from which the images come ...

http://letkeman.net/Photos/f200exr1600iso

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,437
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Photofreak7 wrote:

I hope that dpreview will bump the
F200EXR review to the top of their list and compare it to the F31
(from '06 - Wow time sure flies when the MP war rages!)

Exactly what I was thinking ... if any new development deserves a quick review, this is it.

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Photofreak7 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Photofreak7 wrote:

I hope that dpreview will bump the
F200EXR review to the top of their list and compare it to the F31
(from '06 - Wow time sure flies when the MP war rages!)

Exactly what I was thinking ... if any new development deserves a
quick review, this is it.

They may very well compare it to the F100fd (which is a good comparison as well) -but- I'm more interested in the F31fd comparison at 6MP/6MP equiv.

It also just struck me as to if this new F200 will be a better camera than the LX3 (in low light) which is admittedly decent from ISO400-1600. It looks like at least at low ISO the LX3 uses less NR - shame on Fuji if this is the case ... Matt

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Harry Linssen Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Kim Letkeman wrote:

I've downloaded the 12mp and 6mp images from DC Impress and produced
crops and processed versions (with and without Neat Image) to compare
them and see how good they can look.

Bottom line ... probably the best social snapshooter in years.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/02/fuji-f200exr-at-1600-iso.html

Here's the album from which the images come ...

http://letkeman.net/Photos/f200exr1600iso

Kim,

I have an F31fd, and it's quite amazing - with one reservation:

Even in bright light at 100 ISO too much noise reduction damage is done - can't get definition in fine detail areas such as dill spikes, tree clumps, grass, etc. resulting in fuzzy cotton ball appearance. It would be very nice if Fuji could allow the user to select less aggressive NR in such subjects. If that results in some grain, so be it.
Do you think they might be influenced by users to do this?

Harry Linssen

PS I am spoiled by the detail an non rubbed-out looking images from my Sigmas.

theranman Veteran Member • Posts: 4,228
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Of course they'll be influenced by us...when monkeys fly outta my a_s.

Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,437
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

theranman wrote:

Of course they'll be influenced by us...when monkeys fly outta my a_s.

I have to agree with this ... although the presence of full manual control in the F200EXR implies that they've heard some of the complaints. But there are so many little issues that never get addressed that this might just have been blind luck.

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Photofreak7 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
I agree about selectable NR for F31 -nt-

Harry Linssen wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

I've downloaded the 12mp and 6mp images from DC Impress and produced
crops and processed versions (with and without Neat Image) to compare
them and see how good they can look.

Bottom line ... probably the best social snapshooter in years.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/02/fuji-f200exr-at-1600-iso.html

Here's the album from which the images come ...

http://letkeman.net/Photos/f200exr1600iso

Kim,

I have an F31fd, and it's quite amazing - with one reservation:

Even in bright light at 100 ISO too much noise reduction damage is
done - can't get definition in fine detail areas such as dill spikes,
tree clumps, grass, etc. resulting in fuzzy cotton ball appearance.
It would be very nice if Fuji could allow the user to select less
aggressive NR in such subjects. If that results in some grain, so be
it.
Do you think they might be influenced by users to do this?

Harry Linssen

PS I am spoiled by the detail an non rubbed-out looking images from
my Sigmas.

 Photofreak7's gear list:Photofreak7's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ300
Rockchan Contributing Member • Posts: 868
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

The NR is for sure influenced by user. Normal users choose smooth with less details (it is hard to find out as they seldom look at details at 100%) than more grains (it is more easy to be seen if there are noises).

Normal users don't care the details of something like hairs. Therefore, they may not look at those areas even they enlarge the photo to 100%.

Harry Linssen wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

I've downloaded the 12mp and 6mp images from DC Impress and produced
crops and processed versions (with and without Neat Image) to compare
them and see how good they can look.

Bottom line ... probably the best social snapshooter in years.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/02/fuji-f200exr-at-1600-iso.html

Here's the album from which the images come ...

http://letkeman.net/Photos/f200exr1600iso

Kim,

I have an F31fd, and it's quite amazing - with one reservation:

Even in bright light at 100 ISO too much noise reduction damage is
done - can't get definition in fine detail areas such as dill spikes,
tree clumps, grass, etc. resulting in fuzzy cotton ball appearance.
It would be very nice if Fuji could allow the user to select less
aggressive NR in such subjects. If that results in some grain, so be
it.
Do you think they might be influenced by users to do this?

Harry Linssen

PS I am spoiled by the detail an non rubbed-out looking images from
my Sigmas.

MrClick Senior Member • Posts: 1,886
The masses aren't bothered with details

Rockchan wrote:

The NR is for sure influenced by user. Normal users choose smooth
with less details (it is hard to find out as they seldom look at
details at 100%) than more grains (it is more easy to be seen if
there are noises).

Normal users don't care the details of something like hairs.
Therefore, they may not look at those areas even they enlarge the
photo to 100%.

Absolutely! You nailed it 100% with your comments.

But I think Fujifilm should quickly launch this sensor in as many other camera bodies as fast as they can. The competition will soon catch up. Every month counts. This is why those who have been tracking companies for a long time know that companies who are slow in their offerings eventually get trodden upon by the more nimble footed companies who can quickly fill up the vacuum created by others.

-- hide signature --

Click

MartyG9 Contributing Member • Posts: 531
Perspective.......................

Much of it depends on what you want or expect the camera to do. It will never be an SLR, not even a bad one. It isn't a premium resolution daylight shooter like the G10, but what it can be is a better indoor no flash shooter than the F30/31.

Remember, the F30/31 are the best compact high ISO cameras ever put together and with today's IS, fast glass and "only" going to ISO 6400 a top Canon or Nikon dSLR is eight or maybe nine stops better......., so keep it in perspective.
--
Just Marty F31fd G10 5DMkII

http://picasaweb.google.com/midareff/PhotographsAndMemories#

Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Perspective.......................

MartyG9 wrote:

Much of it depends on what you want or expect the camera to do. It
will never be an SLR, not even a bad one. It isn't a premium
resolution daylight shooter like the G10, but what it can be is a
better indoor no flash shooter than the F30/31.

Remember, the F30/31 are the best compact high ISO cameras ever put
together and with today's IS, fast glass and "only" going to ISO 6400
a top Canon or Nikon dSLR is eight or maybe nine stops better.......,
so keep it in perspective.
--

I think the point Kim is making..

Is that fuji are not really "listening" to their users/potential buyers. I will reserve judgement until more stuff shows up, it's not looking bad, but it's not blowing any socks off either..not yet.

Marketing is one thing, reality is another, lets see what it can do, if it has really good DR, that's a pretty big appeal.

But why do fuji put their earplugs in? We still have no histogram (which is criminal in this price range, heck it should be in all compacts), no raw (so you either like or lump the fuji jpeg processing), they have not gone back the the damn good battery of the F31..

Why??

It's as if they have mildly warmed over the F series for a good bit now, doing not very much at all with it..the asks are still there, not addressed at all.

If it were not for this so called new swanky sensor (we will see if it's any good), there would be next to no interest at all.

NIK11 Senior Member • Posts: 2,827
Re: The masses aren't bothered with details

MrClick wrote:

But I think Fujifilm should quickly launch this sensor in as many
other camera bodies as fast as they can. The competition will soon
catch up. Every month counts. This is why those who have been
tracking companies for a long time know that companies who are slow
in their offerings eventually get trodden upon by the more nimble
footed companies who can quickly fill up the vacuum created by others.

Well I hope you are right about that because many of us said exactly this when the breakthrough F10 arrived. All Fuji did then was to squander a 2 year lead by trickling out clone versions of the F10. Even the E900 failed to capitalize on the that special 6mp sensor.

I hope the enthusiasts here get their wish with a G10/LX3/GX200 cruncher from Fuji, but don't hold your breath.

Nick

Leites Regular Member • Posts: 355
Re: The masses aren't bothered with details

This is the first compact incorparating the new EXR sensor, so maybe we'll see some missing features in upcoming models?
May be they're going to resurrect E-series, that would be nice

Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,437
Re: F200EXR 1600 ISO blog post with crops etc ...

Rockchan wrote:

The NR is for sure influenced by user. Normal users choose smooth
with less details (it is hard to find out as they seldom look at
details at 100%) than more grains (it is more easy to be seen if
there are noises).

Normal users don't care the details of something like hairs.
Therefore, they may not look at those areas even they enlarge the
photo to 100%.

I think by "normal" you probably mean the masses. Since facebook (or one of those) has become the world's largest photo host now, I think we can all assume that these are the 13 to 22 year olds who post their drinking exploits every weekend ... hundreds and hundreds of similar images ... some ok (because they remembered the flash) and some abysmal ...

Those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm thinking more about people who have kids and want to capture them indoors. Or people who are enthusiasts and want to have a lot of control and even input.

The F200EXR is a small step up in the latter category in that it allows full manual, albeit with a rather clunky interface. But it is no G10 killer in that department. In fact, it isn't even in the game yet.

And even their potentially wonderful new high ISO may not be able to handle the decent detail retention with 15mp that the G10 brings to bear. We'll see ...

The DR has great potential of course ... but without the controls and extended battery life and so on, it's another F10 -- appealing as heck to a small group of people who value this specific property over everything, but potentially irrelevant to the masses or even the enthusiast market (all the way up to professionals.)

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,437
Re: The masses aren't bothered with details

Leites wrote:

This is the first compact incorparating the new EXR sensor, so maybe
we'll see some missing features in upcoming models?
May be they're going to resurrect E-series, that would be nice

Yes, it would. But unfortunately, we've all been waiting for years for the next E series camera ... while Fuji concentrated on the J series ...

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theranman Veteran Member • Posts: 4,228
Re: The masses aren't bothered with details

Fuji will not offer a "The One" camera any more than any other manufacturer will. Ya gotta "keep 'em wanting more", or else no more sales. They'll always add two desirable features, and then take a different one away. Always has been. Always will be. Fuji's gig is "the sensor!", while the other manufacturers have "the features!".

Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,437
Re: The masses aren't bothered with details

theranman wrote:

Fuji will not offer a "The One" camera any more than any other
manufacturer will. Ya gotta "keep 'em wanting more", or else no more
sales. They'll always add two desirable features, and then take a
different one away. Always has been. Always will be. Fuji's gig is
"the sensor!", while the other manufacturers have "the features!".

I think the sales figures have spoken ... time for Fuji to expand the scope of their gig ...

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