Thom Hogan D3X review

Started Jan 12, 2009 | Discussions
Raul Veteran Member • Posts: 8,436
Thank you Thom

very good

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Nikon Df Nikon D5 Nikon D850
noctwice Junior Member • Posts: 27
IR doesn't show a difference in RAW though

rhlpetrus wrote:

This test posted at Luminous Landscape shows very little difference
between the Canons and the P25 back. I'd say maybe detail was better
with 1DsIII. If, as IR shots show, the D3x is better than 1DsIII and
5DII, it's certainly close to P25.

It seems that the differences in JPEG are even more minor when comparing the D3x to the 1DsIII, 5D II, and A900 in RAW as opposed to JPEG.

After the imaging resource home page type this path after the address:

PRODS/E5D2/E5D2RAW.HTM

It shows some comparisons in RAW between those models.

Do you see any real differences?

Some tests show differences in JPEG with various camera settings. But I am not finding where when tested carefully there are many real differences in these models in terms of image quality in RAW.

CRH Regular Member • Posts: 148
Re: Thom Hogan D3X review

rhlpetrus wrote:

OldMaster wrote:

I think that says everything most thought..and I am pleased to see he
has re-affirmed the laws of physics are still relevant and the D3x
does not have "Better Noise" than the D3!!!

Sorry, but there were at least two RAW comparisons showing, at worse,
D3x about same as D3 in high ISO noise.

Observe that Thom has mentioned he hasn't done RAW testing of DR, of
course also not RAW testing of noise.

It was good to see the lens issues raised too! Interesting comments
on resolution reduction for those landscapers that eschew PC lenses
and just "stop it down more"!

I have also seen reviews where the D700 was clearly out-resolving the
Sony 900 at 1600 asa. Much improved though the D3x is at this iso
over the Sony..anything above and in real world resolution of detail,
probably the D700/D3 is doing better!!

A900 is in anopther (lower) league re noise in high ISO, both jpegs
and RAW, as already showed here.

Thom says more than once that D3x has the best IQ of any dslr at
present moment, and he says up to 1600ISO, not a small feat. Others
have said up to 6400ISO, but of course the debate will go for ever on
that.

The point is: if you need the best IQ for high quality images,
landscape or studio, the D3x is the camea to have now, short of
20,000+ MF systems.

The D3X is great until ISO 800; above that, no matter the exposure accuracy, etc., the D3 has it... as the ISO goes up, the D3 walks away with DR and overall IQ.

I love my D3X, and have already made my 8k back several times over. I've put about 7k actuations on it, with all my lenses, everything from the 14-24 to the 600 f/4 VR, in all types of indoor and outdoor lighting. It's a lower ISO camera. The D3's high ISO performance is better by about a half-stop above ISO 800, and around a stop and a half above ISO 3200.

Anyone, Thom included, who states that the RAW images out of a D3X are equal to or better than the D3 at anything above ISO 800 is trying to see results that just ain't there, IMO.

Having 40 years of photographic experience, 35 of them professional, and teaching digital imaging for 15 years helps me here, but the bottom line is that OWNING and using the D3, D3X, and the D700 is why I'm sayin' that the D3X and the D3/D700 are different horses for different courses.

Please excuse me while I depart for a landscape/pano assignment with the D3X! =^D

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'Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.'
-Stephen Hawking

'The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.' -Archilochus

'The media doesn't dictate the message. The need dictates the media.'
-Melvin Van Peebles

arphotography New Member • Posts: 1
Re: My thoughts about the review and the price of the D3X

Hi Thom,
You are only considering the production costs

Something that you do not take into consideration is the specific hardware and software development/testing/marketing etc. costs and industrial investments Nikon had to make for the D3x.
Those costs more or less come in addition to the D3 production costs.

Additionally, they probably run shorter batches of production, which are more expensive.

If the specific costs have been MUSD 50 (guess), under the current circumstances, Companies commonly plan a one year return on investment. They have positioned the price point where they felt they would meet their target.

Say they make $2,000 more than with the D3 on each camera (rest is for some additional costs + higher ditributor margin), it would mean that they plan to sell 25,000 D3x the first year. In this respect, the 1DSIII price help them a lot.

Of course, reality is more complex and figures are different than those, but to a certain extent, it can explain the price difference. It is then unlikely that they drop the price before one year or before they reach their ROI target.
For what it is worth, this is just an opinion.

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AR

CRH Regular Member • Posts: 148
Re: IR doesn't show a difference in RAW though

noctwice wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

This test posted at Luminous Landscape shows very little difference
between the Canons and the P25 back. I'd say maybe detail was better
with 1DsIII. If, as IR shots show, the D3x is better than 1DsIII and
5DII, it's certainly close to P25.

It seems that the differences in JPEG are even more minor when
comparing the D3x to the 1DsIII, 5D II, and A900 in RAW as opposed to
JPEG.

After the imaging resource home page type this path after the address:

PRODS/E5D2/E5D2RAW.HTM

It shows some comparisons in RAW between those models.

Do you see any real differences?

Some tests show differences in JPEG with various camera settings.
But I am not finding where when tested carefully there are many real
differences in these models in terms of image quality in RAW.

Used the 5D MkII and the A900 alongside the D3X for MANY actuations, in all kinds of light, with a wide variety of pro lenses, and nailed many of the exposures with all three.

The D3X stomps the A900 and the 5D MkII handily, at all ISOs. As ISO goes up, the contrast (sic) becomes even more stark. If you can't tell the difference between the 3 files, RAW OR JPEG, then, by all means, buy the A900 or the 5D MkII. If you CAN, then you'll need the D3X, because you ARE seeing what's there... a real IQ difference, in the D3X's favor.

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'Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.'
-Stephen Hawking

'The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.' -Archilochus

'The media doesn't dictate the message. The need dictates the media.'
-Melvin Van Peebles

HAE Senior Member • Posts: 1,028
No expensive ADC's?

Thom mentions "But the D3x doesn't have the very expensive ADC components that the D3 does".

This seems to contradict what the D3x microsite has under the Features section. Nikon seems to have replaced the on-chip column ADC's that Sony puts in their stock sensor with one or two column amplifiers (looks like two per pixel column) feeding a 12-channel readout circuit, each with its own ADC. It does not look that it was only the "toppings" that got tweaked this time.

noctwice Junior Member • Posts: 27
Show the RAW and prove it...

CRH wrote:

Used the 5D MkII and the A900 alongside the D3X for MANY actuations,
in all kinds of light, with a wide variety of pro lenses, and nailed
many of the exposures with all three.

The D3X stomps the A900 and the 5D MkII handily, at all ISOs. As ISO
goes up, the contrast (sic) becomes even more stark. If you can't
tell the difference between the 3 files, RAW OR JPEG, then, by all
means, buy the A900 or the 5D MkII. If you CAN, then you'll need the
D3X, because you ARE seeing what's there... a real IQ difference,
in the D3X's favor.

If this can be demonstrated I have yet to see it. Basically you are saying that the D3x stomps all over the 1DsIII in terms of image quality too. The differences I am seeing in RAW are so slight that they are not even worth mentioning.

fredericFahraeus Regular Member • Posts: 302
Re: Thom Hogan D3X review

Somehow, Im sure the type of photographers buying the D3X, are not too concerned with low-light or high ISOs.

This will be a camera mainly for fashion and advertising where you need as low ISO as possible.

Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,836
Re: No expensive ADC's?

This seems to contradict what the D3x microsite has under the
Features section.

You mean this one?

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Nikkor Nick Contributing Member • Posts: 794
replying to thom about nikon service and your review

I just want to applaud you for your stance.

I believe we all need you to help us on this. I have always had terrible customer service and terrible experiences from nikon support including nps. Nps at point even promised all my gear back. yes they asked me to send in everything during wedding season and could not provide loaners. I had a two week period until my next wedding and while not an nps member was put in touch with an nps manager or person. I had been given there word that I would receive my equipment back by a certain date. It did not show up so I called the person who promised i could get a hold of her and she was on vacation. i fought to get a regular nikon service manager who explained that no one seemed to be aware of the deadline. They then did get my equipment to me on saturday before the wedding. Friday i went to rehearsal with trial canon gear! I was infuriated.

anyway....my point is I believe you are so 100 percent right on and Nikon needs to step it up not only for the d3x but they really need a whole professional service devision that isn't impossible to get in.

i personally believe that the purchase of a d300 up should almost automatically put you in this service.

Kind of like you said when you buy a lexus you get the service. when you buy a bmw you get the service.

also....how do i check my viewfinder angle. i often have thought that no matter how level i try to shoot sometimes i feel i can't get it right. thought it was me even though i felt like i was crazy and had never had a problem before when i tried.

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Nick Kessler

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