5D AF sucks---see examples

Started Nov 6, 2008 | Discussions
Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: Major Troll NT

Stollen wrote:
NT

Rootbeer wrote:

Richard Ettinger wrote:

Something I learned a long while ago.
--
Canon 40D. Sigma 17-70, Canon 50mm f1.4, canon 135mm 2.8/soft focus,
Canon 70-
200 f4L, Canon 24-105L. Ricoh GX-100

Oh, and I'm sure that applies to intricate camera systems as it does
to hammers, right?

Is that what you're saying?
--

I wasn't asking you you troll!

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: A poor workman blames his tools

Richard Ettinger wrote:

cameras, computers, cars, everything
--
Canon 40D. Sigma 17-70, Canon 50mm f1.4, canon 135mm 2.8/soft focus,
Canon 70-
200 f4L, Canon 24-105L. Ricoh GX-100

.....Oh....is that right..

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: ... and what is wrong with wanting better AF from a $2k+ camera???

Nilo Here wrote:

why are people so against asking for better basics from an expensive
DSLR?

Thank you! You took the words right out of my mouth!

I feel that for the price I am paying for this camera,...that it ought to have better AF performance than the "so - so" AF performance I have been accustomed to for the last 3 years in both of my 5D bodies!

.....what? ......what is the argument against me here..?? Should I feel "happy" that Canon didn't stick us with this new camera, and include the D30's 3 point slow and unreliable AF, and feel good about that...? I swear that some people on this board would still praise Canon if the indeed did do that!! I'm not kidding either!!

Jeepers! I'm so thankful Canon didn't give us the 3 point AF system that was used in that clunker old D30 that was replaced by the D60 years ago! I'm such a happy Canon system owner that they gave us the same AF system that the 5D had (which was better), even though much lesser cameras have been using a newer, and far better and quicker AF system... Well golly gee,...I guess I can't have everything I want from a camera that costs twice as much as those do! Since I'm forced to use the 5D2 for the next 3 years until their next replacement, I'll be sure to shoot easy AF situations, and post the results, so I can praise the AF performance every time I use it ..............completely masking the performance in tricky situations just so that I can keep my fellow forum members on dpreview from calling me a TROLL!

grumble grumble...

Aaaaahhhhh.....screw it!

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: Duh!

amobi wrote:

Rootbeer wrote:

amobi wrote:

Duh! You have great light, and great contrast on the subjects,
against a black background!

As if you have a clue as to how to shoot in a tricky environment with
a flat lighted subject, in a room that is illuminated just like the
subject you are shooting is, with a contrasty background. ...like a
teacher in a classroom,...or a particular bicyclist in a pack of
riders on an overcast day.. Or shooting in low light..

Thanks for the waste of our time with your pointless post!

Isn't funny how you keep coming back to this pointless post.

True....you've got me there..

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: i would like to see crops from those two:

kristian1 wrote:

if its possible 100% crop from those pictures:

thank you!

.....& out-takes too! I'd love to see a proofs of all the shots,...not just the ones you decided to post to show the glory of the 5D's AF performance at f4 at 1600 iso, and 125ths....which is what I would call, good light!

BTW, couldn't you have shot a little tighter..?

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: i would like to see crops from those two:

Rootbeer wrote:

kristian1 wrote:

if its possible 100% crop from those pictures:

thank you!

.....& out-takes too! I'd love to see a proofs of all the
shots,...not just the ones you decided to post to show the glory of
the 5D's AF performance at f4 at 1600 iso, and 125ths....which is
what I would call, good light!

BTW, couldn't you have shot a little tighter..?

Try shooting at 1/30ths at f2.0, with a 135mm f2.0 L, 5D, 1600iso with reliable AF, of a subject moving around the outside of the stage that they made for him to walk around on,..but didn't.. and instead chose to walk around the dark table seating areas instead! Regardless of my lousy tools ..(the 5D), I had to shoot this low contrast large guy against a sea of people with more contrast than him! .....kind of like the opposite of your "sucky" photos.. In some spots the table seating was brighter than him, who is wearing all black,....and then brag about how great the AF of the 5D is!

I used Manual focus because the AF of the 5D was giving me nothing but mush!:

P.O.S. 5D AF if you ask me!

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: Amobi . . .

Sal Baker wrote:

Asteroidx wrote:

The contrast is extremely high - of course it's going to focus
easily. Try focusing in a low diffused light setting.

Why would someone want to shoot in lighting they never need to shoot
in just to prove to someone else that their camera doesn't really
work well for things they don't shoot?

He didn't make any outrageous claims. Only that his 5D's AF works
perfectly for the style of shooting and lighting that's fits his
needs.

Sal

Sal, he made outrageous claims that the 5D's AF was good.. in his "funny" way of saying that it was sucky, and then posting a bunch of photos taken in good lighting, at f4, that he shot with an f2.8 IS lens, with high contrast, against a black wall, with directional light.

Sal, The reason why someone would point out to him that his examples are poor to judge the AF of the camera, and then to suggest that he should shoot in poorer lighting conditions, is because sometimes, us photographers HAVE TO!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=29965172

I was forced to get usable shots of an author walking around a room, shot with the 5D, 1600 iso, 135mm f2.0, at f2.0, at a 30th of a second... 4 stops poorer lighting than what the OP was shooting at! In addition, my subject was a large man wearing black pants and matching black shirt, and he not in one spot, but moving around a room, filled with people who were lighted better than he was, which caused the 5D to "see" them and back focus on every shot I used AF on, hence the reason why I manual focused everything after I noticed that the 5D was not providing anything near acceptable results.

In addition, I wasn't allowed to use flash. I just had to do my job, and get usable shots to satisfy my client, which I did.

After reading your comment above, I really wonder what you would have been able to accomplish if you were stuck beside me with the same requirements.

amobi
OP amobi Veteran Member • Posts: 3,136
Re: i would like to see crops from those two:

Rootbeer wrote:

Rootbeer wrote:

kristian1 wrote:

if its possible 100% crop from those pictures:

thank you!

.....& out-takes too! I'd love to see a proofs of all the
shots,...not just the ones you decided to post to show the glory of
the 5D's AF performance at f4 at 1600 iso, and 125ths....which is
what I would call, good light!

BTW, couldn't you have shot a little tighter..?

Try shooting at 1/30ths at f2.0, with a 135mm f2.0 L, 5D, 1600iso
with reliable AF, of a subject moving around the outside of the stage
that they made for him to walk around on,..but didn't.. and instead
chose to walk around the dark table seating areas instead! Regardless
of my lousy tools ..(the 5D), I had to shoot this low contrast large
guy against a sea of people with more contrast than him! .....kind of
like the opposite of your "sucky" photos.. In some spots the
table seating was brighter than him, who is wearing all black,....and
then brag about how great the AF of the 5D is!

I used Manual focus because the AF of the 5D was giving me nothing
but mush!:

P.O.S. 5D AF if you ask me!

I can nail your type of shot easily with my 5D. All I saw was a big guy standing. This guy can't be moving that fast. My mages show more activities than yours. Next time use your flash to focus without firing it.

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: i would like to see crops from those two:

amobi wrote:

Rootbeer wrote:

Rootbeer wrote:

kristian1 wrote:

if its possible 100% crop from those pictures:

thank you!

.....& out-takes too! I'd love to see a proofs of all the
shots,...not just the ones you decided to post to show the glory of
the 5D's AF performance at f4 at 1600 iso, and 125ths....which is
what I would call, good light!

BTW, couldn't you have shot a little tighter..?

Try shooting at 1/30ths at f2.0, with a 135mm f2.0 L, 5D, 1600iso
with reliable AF, of a subject moving around the outside of the stage
that they made for him to walk around on,..but didn't.. and instead
chose to walk around the dark table seating areas instead! Regardless
of my lousy tools ..(the 5D), I had to shoot this low contrast large
guy against a sea of people with more contrast than him! .....kind of
like the opposite of your "sucky" photos.. In some spots the
table seating was brighter than him, who is wearing all black,....and
then brag about how great the AF of the 5D is!

I used Manual focus because the AF of the 5D was giving me nothing
but mush!:

P.O.S. 5D AF if you ask me!

I can nail your type of shot easily with my 5D. All I saw was a big
guy standing. This guy can't be moving that fast. My mages show more
activities than yours. Next time use your flash to focus without
firing it.

That's because he paused.. He would walk from one end of the room to the other, and then he would pause for about 1/2 a second tops when he concluded his point, and then resume walking in the opposite direction. He was not standing still posed for me, nor standing in one spot.

I guarantee you'd not be able to consistently nail those shots with the 5D's AF. In addition to that, 3200 iso was off limits because my clients doesn't like 3200 iso results from my 5D, so your f2.8 would be shot at 15ths.. good luck! & flash was not an option. In addition, the red light emitted by the flash would have been distracting, which he wouldn't have wanted.

Now,...lets see you do it!

MM1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,504
Re: i would like to see crops from those two:

Rootbeer wrote:

amobi wrote:

Rootbeer wrote:

Rootbeer wrote:

kristian1 wrote:

if its possible 100% crop from those pictures:

[cut off the pics]

thank you!

.....& out-takes too! I'd love to see a proofs of all the
shots,...not just the ones you decided to post to show the glory of
the 5D's AF performance at f4 at 1600 iso, and 125ths....which is
what I would call, good light!

BTW, couldn't you have shot a little tighter..?

Try shooting at 1/30ths at f2.0, with a 135mm f2.0 L, 5D, 1600iso
with reliable AF, of a subject moving around the outside of the stage
that they made for him to walk around on,..but didn't.. and instead
chose to walk around the dark table seating areas instead! Regardless
of my lousy tools ..(the 5D), I had to shoot this low contrast large
guy against a sea of people with more contrast than him! .....kind of
like the opposite of your "sucky" photos.. In some spots the
table seating was brighter than him, who is wearing all black,....and
then brag about how great the AF of the 5D is!

I used Manual focus because the AF of the 5D was giving me nothing
but mush!:

[cut off the pics]

P.O.S. 5D AF if you ask me!

I can nail your type of shot easily with my 5D. All I saw was a big
guy standing. This guy can't be moving that fast. My mages show more
activities than yours. Next time use your flash to focus without
firing it.

That's because he paused.. He would walk from one end of the room to
the other, and then he would pause for about 1/2 a second tops when
he concluded his point, and then resume walking in the opposite
direction. He was not standing still posed for me, nor standing in
one spot.

I guarantee you'd not be able to consistently nail those shots with
the 5D's AF. In addition to that, 3200 iso was off limits because my
clients doesn't like 3200 iso results from my 5D, so your f2.8 would
be shot at 15ths.. good luck! & flash was not an option. In addition,
the red light emitted by the flash would have been distracting, which
he wouldn't have wanted.

I definitely agree with you and your opinions on the 5D AF. The red AF assist light might not help you even then - I was doing some low light shots (flashed) with my 30D at short range with fast prime, and even with the AF assist, the accuracy was barely usable with the center point (and I had to focus recompose for the non-center framed shots) - there were a lot of OOF shots. Outer AF points couldn't even lock with the AF assist. So the AF assist might not save you even if it was accepted.

Now,...lets see you do it!

Certain people will try to hint that you'd need that "sports" camera. :-/

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Martin

 MM1's gear list:MM1's gear list
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Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: i would like to see crops from those two:

MM1 wrote:
I definitely agree with you and your opinions on the 5D AF. The red
AF assist light might not help you even then - I was doing some low
light shots (flashed) with my 30D at short range with fast prime,
and even with the AF assist, the accuracy was barely usable with the
center point (and I had to focus recompose for the non-center framed
shots) - there were a lot of OOF shots. Outer AF points couldn't even
lock with the AF assist. So the AF assist might not save you even if
it was accepted.

Now,...lets see you do it!

Certain people will try to hint that you'd need that "sports" camera.
:-/

I agree! In fact, the suggestion to use a sports camera for this type of shooting situation only strengthens the argument for a better AF system in the 5D, that costs twice as much as the 50D, which has it!

Cliff Chase Contributing Member • Posts: 561
Yes...

If that's all it can do is lock on to virtually stationary, high contrast objects.

amobi
OP amobi Veteran Member • Posts: 3,136
Re: Yes...

All you guys are blind or some of you dance stationery.

Richard Ettinger Senior Member • Posts: 1,331
Re: A poor workman blames his tools

it's about the workman.

Rootbeer wrote:

Richard Ettinger wrote:

cameras, computers, cars, everything
--
Canon 40D. Sigma 17-70, Canon 50mm f1.4, canon 135mm 2.8/soft focus,
Canon 70-
200 f4L, Canon 24-105L. Ricoh GX-100

.....Oh....is that right..

-- hide signature --

Canon 40D. Sigma 17-70, Canon 50mm f1.4, canon 135mm 2.8/soft focus, Canon 70-
200 f4L, Canon 24-105L. Ricoh GX-100

 Richard Ettinger's gear list:Richard Ettinger's gear list
Sony a7 II Sony a7R II Leica Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 ASPH Leica APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM +7 more
gordonf238 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
You use the 5D to take pictures like these?

Not to pick a fight or anything, but this looks like snap-shooter's paradise.

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: A poor workman blames his tools

Richard Ettinger wrote:
it's about the workman.

Rootbeer wrote:

Richard Ettinger wrote:

cameras, computers, cars, everything
--
Canon 40D. Sigma 17-70, Canon 50mm f1.4, canon 135mm 2.8/soft focus,
Canon 70-
200 f4L, Canon 24-105L. Ricoh GX-100

.....Oh....is that right..

Care to elaborate with more than just "bumper sticker" phrases?

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: but what camera to buy?

tko wrote:

"I just wish they'd go out and buy something that DOES meet their
needs and quit harping on the issue."

That's the whole problem. No one would be knocking the 5dII is there
was something else that did what they wanted - they'd just buy it,
like you suggest. But what?

A 50d? Worse noise than the 40d, ISO 1600 is pretty bad.

A Mark III? 10 MP seems awfully tame, is that AF OK now?, about due
for a replacement

An Nikon D700? Who wants to switch brands and lenses and learn a new
system?

I'd spend another $500-$1000 or so to get a 5d w/a better AF and
slightly faster frame rate.

No one is picking on the 5d just for fun. Like is or not, the 50d is
Canon's best, affordable (under $5000), all around camera. After
that, you have to specialize, and get a sports camera or a wedding
camera. Sure, I'm going to buy both and take them on vacation with me?

You'd think if I'm willing to spend $3500 or TRIPLE the price I
could get a Canon that was better than the 50d in all respects, not
just one or two specific areas.

So, I promise you, as soon as Canon comes out w/a 15 MP mk III at
under $4000 street I'll stop whining.

Great post!

In addition to your points, as a pro, I need to have reliable back-up equipment. I always buy my camera bodies in pairs, because what would happen if lets say, the shutter fails, or I drop a body, and the nifty body I have suddenly becomes unusable while at an important job? I have to use my back-up body, or my second body. I'd rather have the same body as my main body as my 2nd/ my back up.. instead of a much lesser type of camera body... Like going from a 5D to a 20D.. That just doesn't cut it for me or my clients..

Thanks to Canon not giving us a decent body that gives me what I need in a body that can do everything I need,..I have to buy not just a "studio" camera, and a "sports" camera, but a pair of each!..

That is how they make their money, and why they are _ _ _ _ _ _ _ us in the _ _ !!

They believe that if they give us a camera body that does everything that many of use would really desire in a body, that they wouldn't be able to make enough money to be as profitable..

Now,...if I want to set up a remote camera to shoot through a backboard at a basketball game,..I am going to use a FF body.. because a 1.3 format body crops too much of the frame for my tastes. I'd rather have a FF body to do the job, but that makes me have to fork out 16 thousand bucks to afford a pair of "S" (studio) bodies....one for each hoop,...OR, I can use a 5D, which has much longer shutter lag time, slower fps, and slower top sync speed, but costs 3 thousand bucks per body.. For the price of two of them, I can use a pair of 5D bodies to shoot as remotes, that can do a so-so job, and miss a lot of shots when peak action is taking place! ........Sigh... ..So I am compelled to buy a paid of "S" bodies instead! ....hence the reason why Canon designs the 5D bodies the way they do.....to annoy us into buying the much more expensive more featured camera body with a slightly faster frame rate! Yep,...if I want a faster frame rate, then I will have to use a body with image limitations such as a cropped format, and more more noise! ....(good thing I have a lot of hair to pull out!)

That's it in a nutshell!

What ever happened to the good old days when the Canon A2/A2e gave us just 1fps slower frame rate than the 1N, but provided us with the same AF system as the 1N had, that was FF,...not an APS film body, not quite as robust, which was reflected in the cost..?

What I'd want is a FF body, capable of 8fps, up to 16MP tops, 8MP for 1/2 sized RAW images, clean iso up to 6400, a decent RAW buffer,....sure, give me a movie mode....BUT don't skimp on the AF system, or the shutter lag & mirror black out time, and I'll gladly fork out $3K + $ accessories for that,....and I'll buy 4 of them that I can use two as remotes, and one on each shoulder, and they will all be the same,...so I can get the job done, and buy more lenses, instead of camera bodies all the time!

I have little hope there will be anything like what I want around the corner though..

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: but what camera to buy?

Oh,....and expect to see a 15mp 1DMkIV, 1.3 format.. with the typical expected upgrade features seen on lesser cameras.. but with a more friendly AF system.. for $5k..

Rootbeer Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: Yes...

amobi wrote:

All you guys are blind or some of you dance stationery.

at f4, 125ths, 1600 iso with a 70-200 f2.8 IS L lens, of high contrast subjects, against a black wall, using the center AF point..?

I happen to think your example is blind if you believe that shows the greatness of the 5D AF system performance..

Like I asked before.. Lets see the proofs! Lets see the out-takes! How do we know you are just showing the best of the shots you managed to take, while ignoring all the poor ones that you didn't get a good AF lock on in all that great lighting to shoot in?

Put them up!

mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 6,041
Re: 5D AF sucks---see examples

Beautiful pics!! I especially like number 2 and 6....stunning!

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