15mp = empty magnification

Started Oct 3, 2008 | Discussions
OP gml Senior Member • Posts: 1,023
Re: 15mp = empty magnification

Here's a 150% crop from the 50D image compared to the uprezed versions of the same image from the 5D (top-right), 450D (bottom-left), and the 40D (bottom-right).
This is how the differences will look like on 75x50 inch print:
http://i.pbase.com/o6/17/716817/1/104037501.th7Ri0Bo.1.bmp

OP gml Senior Member • Posts: 1,023
Re: 15mp = empty magnification

Deleted

(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 873
Re: WOW. 50D out resolves both the 5D and XSi.

Steven Noyes wrote:

Who would have thunk that 15 MP shows more detail than 12MP???

Who would have thunk?

sorry a minor issue but the pp for the verb think is thought.

Of course, the amount is not huge but it is easily seen by even a
near blind person comparing side by side:-)

Steven

Droppingin Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
I Am Going To Bed Now, nt
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Its easy to be a holy man on a mountain top.

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OP gml Senior Member • Posts: 1,023
More of the same

Here's a 100% crop of the 50D (middle) vs upscaled crops of the 40D (left) and 450D (right).
These crops are equivalent to looking at 48"x32" @ 96 ppi prints.

Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,372
Re: WOW. 50D out resolves both the 5D and XSi.

Rcihardc wrote:

Steven Noyes wrote:

Who would have thunk that 15 MP shows more detail than 12MP???

Who would have thunk?

sorry a minor issue but the pp for the verb think is thought.

I know. Sarcasm never portrays on the web space well.

Steven

Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,372
So in other words...

You just proved your OP wrong. The 50D shows about 10% more resolution. Just what you would expect?

What is your point? That you opened your mouth and inserted your foot?

Steven

Dan P1 Regular Member • Posts: 269
Clearly, the 50D wins this match

When I looked at the images, I did so before reading which was which. I chose the middle one as having the better image.

And it was a fairly easy win.

SmokinMan Contributing Member • Posts: 855
WHat is wrong with people here....

A properly conducted test for you to judge the IQ difference is being twisted with uprize and downrize throwing in all kind of Resizing factor into play just to satisfief their own ego.

Eventhough you CAN see the difference CLEARLY in the "Scale" or "Tiny words" to judge whether the 50D can resolve more details than the other 12MP camera, you simply choose that "GIGANTIC" letter with all the upscale and downscale job done to make the difference less obvious. GML you should stop it right there. The 50D certainly can render more details than the 5D and the 450D, and by a LARGE margin to the 40D. The 5D, 450D may have a stronger sharpening out of camera jpeg but that is NOT details.

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SmokinMan

Jan Bohme Regular Member • Posts: 361
Re: More of the same

gml wrote:

Here's a 100% crop of the 50D (middle) vs upscaled crops of the 40D
(left) and 450D (right).
These crops are equivalent to looking at 48"x32" @ 96 ppi prints.

Righto. So the 50D obviously outperforms the 40D in terms of resolution, and more subtly, but still clearly, outperforms the 450D. (See, for instance, the hatching of the letters.)

Pretty much as could be expected

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thw Veteran Member • Posts: 8,089
You enjoy being a pest, don't you? /nt
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DRG Veteran Member • Posts: 5,217
Re: More of the same

gml wrote:

Here's a 100% crop of the 50D (middle) vs upscaled crops of the 40D
(left) and 450D (right).
These crops are equivalent to looking at 48"x32" @ 96 ppi prints.

Pretty amazing, since you can look right at the words "pure brewed" and see that the horizontal striping is clearly resolved in the middle photo and increasingly less resolved moving to the 450D and then the 40D, exactly in order of decreasing sensor pixel count. It's not even subtle and thus not credible to claim that a properly-made 96dpi print would not show the differences.

David

Decoboy Regular Member • Posts: 172
Agree and tests are fatallly flawed

Hi THW,

I agree fully with you Raw/DPP comments on the 50D. You'll find a number of other posts from me on this subject.

IMO opinion Canon is doing something completely different in NR for the 50D. And at the moment only DPP can handle it properly. It also seems that most reviewers - amateur and
pros have not picked up on this.

I can't believe people are trying to use ACR 4.6 to process 50D Raws, or even worse comparing jpegs produced out of camera - huh?

BTW I assume you know that this review of the 40D-50D used different lenses, different focal lengths (one had an extender!!) and shutter speeds for the same ISO settings.?

Oh dear.

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Brian

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,243
horrible site for "controlled test", ignore that site

Very inconsistent test examples, their point of focus is different and incorrect in many of their photos for many different brands/models.

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,243
what the @@## ??

gml wrote:

Here's a 150% crop from the 50D image compared to the uprezed
versions of the same image from the 5D (top-right), 450D
(bottom-left), and the 40D (bottom-right).
This is how the differences will look like on 75x50 inch print:

Who the hell makes 75x50 inch prints? Especially from a small sensor camera?? Holy geez. And if you made a print that big, you'd be viewing it from 8 feet away!

The 5D is bound to make better prints very large prints since its pixels are about 3 times bigger, but the 50D will be a great camera especially for wildlife.

carlk Forum Pro • Posts: 15,940
Re: More of the same

Can't believe with mounting evidences you still want to start treads to prove something that has no merit at all. On the other hand you're not as bad as someone (who should remain nameless) that were trying so hard from day one to prove IQ of 50D is no different from his 40D.

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Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,372
IR is among the best sites on the web for controlled tests.

The results are consistent and reproducible. Not only that, they provide RAW samples as well.

Steven

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,243
I strongly disagree

Steven Noyes wrote:

The results are consistent and reproducible. Not only that, they
provide RAW samples as well.

Like I said, their focusing is all over the place. I got into a discussion a several weeks ago about the XSi vs. another brand's 12MP or so camera and the issue was detail recorded. And once I pointed out that the "test" photos had a different point in focus for the "controlled test" that resulted in one photo looking to have less detail, everyone shut up about one camera recording more detail than the other.

I've seen their test photos focusing on the wall and leaves behind the human woman in their test photos, on the leaves/flowers infront of the woman, etc. If they aren't using the same point in focus you cannot use it as a test example for detail, sharpness, etc.

Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,372
I guess we will have to strongly disagree.

I tend to really look at their studio stills and for me, those are the only ones that count. But even that, the fact that they use the cameras AF system is also a very good and controlled test since that is what many people will only use.

But IR has, for many years, provided very consistent, reproducible and representative tests. Their lighting is VERY well controlled under studio tests and are much more consistent than DPR. They use default JPEG settings and provide access to many of the RAW files as well. This allows the individual to run the files through their own work-flow. This is invaluable.

But in all, I give IR a solid A- to A grade in performing exceptionally well done tests.

Steven

Bob Blount Veteran Member • Posts: 7,458
Re: 15mp = empty magnification

The reality, though, is that 15mp on a crop camera is beyond the resolving power of most commercial lenses, so these 15mp are nothing more than empty magnification (aka digital zoom)."

liquidstone wrote:

Bob Blount wrote:

And what is the basis for this overt statement? I guess those buying
the new 5D MK II are really dumb since they are using the same lens
as I do with my 50D. You did say the lens resolution makes anything
over 12 MP useless? One what planet?

Bob, it's the size of the pixels that matters, not the quantity. You
can have a 1 terapixel camera on a 1 sq. km. sensor, and the 18-55
kit lens (scaled up to enlarge the image circle) will be more than
sharp enough. The 5D2 has larger pixels than the 40D, which in turn
has larger pixels than the 50D.

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