Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

Started Oct 3, 2008 | Discussions
brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 8,413
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

True, but someone who cannot afford the 1DsMKIII may bypass Canon altogether and go Nikon.

mdg wrote:

Considering the huge profit margins on the 1D line, a single 1Ds
mkIII sale makes up for many lost 5D sales.

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Anastigmat Forum Pro • Posts: 12,664
Re: Wow, unanimous Canon bashing...

Matt Cham wrote:

...and it's not even the Nikon forum. What's going on here?

There certainly are a lot of clowns here who bash everything Canon does and most of those criticisms are either made up or otherwise jokes.

However, the latest move by Canon shows that some criticism is deserving. The question concerning the AF was asked by DP Review at Photokina, not by one of the clowns who flood this forum with defamatory posts. The answer by Canon is a joke. It is laughable. The Canon person interviewed claimed that the AF unit in the 50D is too big for the 5DMKII. That is simply ludicrous, as other people in this forum pointed out. If Nikon can fit the D3 AF unit into the D700, Canon can certainly fit the 1DSMKIII AF unit into the 5DMKII. Given the low price of the 5DMKII, some users are not asking for the sky. They just want the 50D AF unit in a camera that costs nearly twice as much as the 50D and they get this ridiculous excuse that the AF unit is too big and that the 5D would have been a bigger camera with it. It insults the intelligence of those who are reading the interview. Who does Canon think they are selling the cameras to: people who know nothing about camera gear?

I sympathize with Canon for being forced by competition to put a 1DMKIII sensor in a body about 1/3 of the price of the camera it had been selling. But please, do not treat us like fools and expect us to believe that the 5DMKII is not being deliberately held back for marketing reasons. Just tell us that at the price the 5DMKII is being sold, Canon cannot afford to give us a better AF unit. We will all understand and there would not have been an uproar.

John Senior Member • Posts: 1,299
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

Since my 5D always worked in AF and 2 copies of my 1D Mark III never worked single or servo (even after fixes) and my 1Ds Mark III still has occasional problems with servo as well, I for one am happy they didn't put that AF design in the 5D Mark II...

Several lens' have problems focusing with my D3 and D700 in spite of all sensors. The 70-200 2.8 VR constantly has problems deciding on focus and often misses entirely producing a blurry image in the viewfinder with the focus light on solid. So having a bunch of sensors isn't necessarily the answer. The problem occurs in plenty of light and dim light. Bright sunlight seems to be reasonably OK..

raoulJ Contributing Member • Posts: 701
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

mdg wrote:

A:
There are 10 potential customers with Canon lenses looking for a FF
DSLR with good AF, and the 5DmkII has pro level 45 point AF. All 10
buy the 5DmkII.

B:
There are the same 10 potential customers with Canon lenses looking
for a FF DSLR with good AF, and the 5DmkII has the old AF. 4 buy the
5DmkII anyway, 2 buy the 1DsmkIII, and 4 sell up and go to Nikon, or
give up photography altogether and become monks, it doesn't matter.

now, as long as the profit on the 1D is over three times what it is
on the 5D then Canon make more money from situation B.

Well, I bet it would rather be 6,1,0.
Then Canon looses.

Anyway, even at 4,2,0 or 7,1,0, Canon will loose, since body is a small part of benefits, I guess. And 6 or 7 customers that will buy lenses and accessories is less than 10, isn't it ?

And nobody is ready to switch brand often : a lost customer here is likely to be lost for ever...

But you're right : there should be a reason that lead them to reduce fps, for example. When you compare MB/s throughput from 1D(s)III and 50D, they both are around 100 for raw, where 5DII will be 15% less. With a new and most probably faster processor. Why ?

Well, after all, they probably think it's something that will only be a decision factor for the real 1DSIII target: Real pros who want FF and high fps.
It won't matter for most FF amateurs...

Do they think the same about the AF performance ?
If they do, they are probably wrong.

I think they just can't afford to launch a new AF system right now and just HAD to launch 5DII to regain attention and market shares.

And, after all, how many customers are actually ready to make the switch ? Not much, probably.
I'm not.

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Raoul

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Skip M Veteran Member • Posts: 7,174
Yes, but,

kevm14 wrote:

Skip M wrote:

No room in the body of a 5D
mkII, which is larger than the 50D, for the 50D's AF sensor?

Maybe I'm confused but it seems to make sense to me. The full frame
sensor in the 5D means less room below it for a larger AF sensor, if
you are designing around a certain exterior dimension requirement.

The 5D is larger than the 50D, and I didn't notice anyone begging for a dimensionally smaller mkII. You'd think that in the ensuing 3 years, Canon would have come up with a solution. I have a feeling they probably did, but someone for some reason, nixed it.
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RichW Forum Pro • Posts: 12,837
I agree, I'll stick with AF that works....

Never had a problem with my 5D AF. Glad the 5DII has the same one.

Rich

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Blaize Regular Member • Posts: 380
Re: your whines were answered :~)

spot on tko. !!!

hang in there folks there is hope - us 10D 20D and 30D folk "whined" about things like ISO in the viewfinder, spot metering and a bunch of other things which were answered in the 40D and now a few added pluses on the 50D - so it pays to ask! the next 5D IIN or whatever it is called will most likely feature improved AF

keep pestering canon - it may pay off.

happiness comes to all those who wait... or "whine" ha-ha

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remasbg New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

Also the EOS 3 had the same 45 point AF Module

Markus

EOS3User Regular Member • Posts: 173
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF
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45 point AF fit into my EOS-3's just fine.
Chris.

memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
Here comes Erik to Canon's rescue. (nt)
memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
because is IQ is over 30.

His Image Quality is over 30dpi, of course.

memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
Re: Remember...

Gweeds wrote:

Over at DWF those are repeated time and time again and have been for
a long time now. Chuck Westfall is a member, so we have access to a
senior Canon source and Canon are well aware of the complaints.

Talking about Chuck, IIRC, his explanation for the AF choice was significantly different than Mr. MM's.

I LOL at everyone who defended him and his truthfulness.

memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
ahah (nt)
CM_laptop Senior Member • Posts: 2,034
To clown Maeda:

who do you think you're fooling?

The 5D2 client base is no P&S crowd.......

memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
yup, epic pwn by Mr. MM and epic fail by Chuck (nt)
memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
not until you posted.
memento Contributing Member • Posts: 774
right on!!! (nt)
DavidMaven Senior Member • Posts: 2,975
Doublespeak for "New AF system not ready yet" (nt)

Barnett wrote:
From the interview:

"And also there's some limitation with size; the AF sensor in the
50D is very big; the one in the 5D is much smaller. If we wanted
to have all cross-sensors in the 5D Mark II, it would mean we
might have to sacrifice the compactness of the body." - Masaya Maeda
(Canon Inc's Director and Chief Executive of Image Communication
Products Operations)

So there you have it. They gave us a lame AF sensor to keep the size
down. I wonder how Nikon managed to get a 51-point, 15 cross-type AF
sensor into the D700...

Barnett

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A4 Forum Member • Posts: 82
As a former 20D user and current D300 user I can say that....

I have had some issues with the 51 point in the D300. I know that the D300 doesn't use the two exspeed chips of the D3 but I don't think the D700 uses dual Exspeed chips either, not that any of that matters in reality. Also, some people say they have experience that the AF on the D700 has better tracking than the D300 so please take this with a grain of salt. I have experienced some inconsistency with the AF on my D300. This has been true in both continuous focus and single shot modes and tracking and single-point. This goes without saying but I do feel that it has worked great in good light but I feel it is somewhat challenged in low light where I shoot quite a bit. This is completely subjective but I do feel like I had somewhat better accuracy with the 20D in low light. Not really much of an objective comparison as it's just my gut feeling. Again, I have no experience with the D700 and many people are saying that it is more consistent than the 51-AF in the D300. If you are outside shooting action, I think the CAM3500 will probably walk away with it but in lower light or non-action situations I think it may be less of an issue than people are making it out to be.

A4

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Funkmasterta Contributing Member • Posts: 593
Re: Why can't Canon just say that?

Name one company in the world that does this, that openly says, "oh we crippled our lower line to protect the higher line product."

It would be a refreshing change for corporations to be honest to consumers but I think that's like asking to see a unicorn in the forest.

Barnett wrote:

You know, if Mr Masaya Maeda would just give me an honest answer and
say "we had to cripple the 5D a little to protect the 1Ds market"
then I would stop complaining and probably just go buy either a 5D
MkII or 1Ds MkIII. But it is all these lies and deception that is
what makes me want to sell all my Canon stuff and switch.

Barnett

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