Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

Started Oct 3, 2008 | Discussions
MM1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,504
Re: Precisely. Who is Canon trying to fool? I suspect...

thw wrote:

So there you have it. They gave us a lame AF sensor to keep the size
down. I wonder how Nikon managed to get a 51-point, 15 cross-type AF
sensor into the D700...

Canon does not have the technology to scale down their multi-point AF
sensors. Even their Digic IV processors are SLOWER than the one year
old EXPEED counterpart.

It's funny how a large company can be stumped by small electronics
problems.

Yeah. No luck for full 3 years. I bet they were so busy trying to achieve this, that they forgot to allocate enough resources for the new Mk3 AF.

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mdg Regular Member • Posts: 355
Re: Crippling the AF

Nilo Here wrote:

only makes sense when the consumer has no where else to go. With the
Nikon d700, there is a viable route. So instead of keeping Canon
users in the family, they will lose them to the d700 because not
everyone who wants pro AF wants a brick of a camera.

Ah, but that is the situation for many customers - due to a large investment in Canon lenses they do have nowhere else to go!

I'm not impressed with the 5D af, but it's not going to make me sell all my lenses, all accessories, flashguns, flash tranmitters, cable release etc. to find reliable used nikon lenses, or spend a fortune buying all new glass

Guy Lerner Senior Member • Posts: 1,770
Is this a troll waterhole or something? /NT
n/t
mdg Regular Member • Posts: 355
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

MM1 wrote:

mdg wrote:

So Canon
basically is just shooting itself in the foot by making the 5DMKII
inferior to the Nikon D700 in AF performance and inferior to both the
D700 and Sony A900 in frame rate.

Maybe not, with high performance AF in the 5DmkII there wouldn't be
much incentive to pay double the price for a 1Ds mkIII to get a built
in grip, 2% better viewfinder coverage 1.1 extra ftps etc. etc.

Considering the huge profit margins on the 1D line, a single 1Ds
mkIII sale makes up for many lost 5D sales.

However, what makes up for the completely lost sale? When the one who
can't afford 1D or 1Ds anyway won't buy the 5D2 because of "ye olde
autofocusse" it features?

I think sale of 5D2 with proAF is welcomed more than no sale at all.

the sale of the 1D makes up for the completely lost sale. Let's consider 2 hypothetical scenarios:

A:

There are 10 potential customers with Canon lenses looking for a FF DSLR with good AF, and the 5DmkII has pro level 45 point AF. All 10 buy the 5DmkII.

B:

There are the same 10 potential customers with Canon lenses looking for a FF DSLR with good AF, and the 5DmkII has the old AF. 4 buy the 5DmkII anyway, 2 buy the 1DsmkIII, and 4 sell up and go to Nikon, or give up photography altogether and become monks, it doesn't matter.

now, as long as the profit on the 1D is over three times what it is on the 5D then Canon make more money from situation B.

five0guy Regular Member • Posts: 402
AF Whiners

While you whine and obsess about the 5DII AF, I will be taking pictures with my 5DII. Go buy a Nikon.

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Matt Cham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,120
Wow, unanimous Canon bashing...

...and it's not even the Nikon forum. What's going on here?

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Johnnysks Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: Remember...

kgirls wrote:

according to Canon "there have been NO complaints about the AF in the
5D."

I am sure no one on this forum has not heard any complaints either.

I took that as we DIDN'T COMPLAINT LOUD ENOUGH! Oh wait, we'll get accused of being "Trolls" by the fanboys ... whatever.

Johnnysks Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: Why can't Canon just say that?

I doubt any executives would be any more truthful either (and I'm using that word very loosely here).

Barnett wrote:

mdg wrote:

Maybe not, with high performance AF in the 5DmkII there wouldn't be
much incentive to pay double the price for a 1Ds mkIII to get a built
in grip, 2% better viewfinder coverage 1.1 extra ftps etc. etc.

Considering the huge profit margins on the 1D line, a single 1Ds
mkIII sale makes up for many lost 5D sales.

You know, if Mr Masaya Maeda would just give me an honest answer and
say "we had to cripple the 5D a little to protect the 1Ds market"
then I would stop complaining and probably just go buy either a 5D
MkII or 1Ds MkIII. But it is all these lies and deception that is
what makes me want to sell all my Canon stuff and switch.

Barnett

Johnnysks Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

Hmm, didn't get questioned about WHY the AF points are all bunched up in the middle, or even if this concern is on their horizon. MUST complain some more so that they'll realise it is not the case that

"... the market's evaluation of the 5D's AF system has been very positive; there have been no complaints from users, with everyone saying it's very good. Given that, to a certain extent, we think we shouldn't change it."

lest the fanboys wants the same AF on 5D3 ... or do they? Gotta go. I have to go and sand down the Canon logo on my 2x 5D's and hand paint "Nikon" on the pentaprizm housing as appearantly I'm a Nikon shooter now due to the nature of my complaints? Strange. I always just thought I was a photographer. I guess photographers cannot have beef's about their equipments.

And sorry, I won't be replying to this post as most often they get censored, and I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to find a post that got deleted. All that sanding won't get done by itself, you know.

rrcphoto Veteran Member • Posts: 6,173
Re: AF Whiners

five0guy wrote:

While you whine and obsess about the 5DII AF, I will be taking
pictures with my 5DII. Go buy a Nikon.

I will too - even though I admit - I read that part of the interview and went .. "WTF.."?

I think if he was honest and actually stated - we weren't going to fuss around with the AF because of the issues we had with the 1 series, and opted at the last minute that to insure reliability of focus, we would keep it the same ..

or ..

listen buddy we weren't going to screw over the dolts that forked over 8K to us in the last year...

  • no offense to those that have a 1Ds III

or..

heck why would we? we tossed in movie mode and 21Mp's!!

or something to that affect, I might have went .. well, at least he's being truthful.

Note to self: whenever I see a difficiency in a canon camera, send email to canon.

but in a way it's a politicial Q&A - he's not really going to say anything that dissuades from one camera segment or another.

as far as the point spreading out further? that I believe is a limitation of the size of the secondary mirror - and the larger you make that, the less light gets transmitted to the pentaprism / viewfinder.

valetman Regular Member • Posts: 183
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

Johnnysks wrote:

Hmm, didn't get questioned about WHY the AF points are all bunched up
in the middle, or even if this concern is on their horizon. MUST
complain some more so that they'll realise it is not the case that

They are no more 'bunched up inthe middle' than any other FF camera, D3 and D700 and the almighty 51 points included.

The only FF camera with a marginally wider spread is the 1DS III.

valetman Regular Member • Posts: 183
Re: Wow, unanimous Canon bashing...

Matt Cham wrote:

...and it's not even the Nikon forum. What's going on here?

There seems to be a concerted effort to pour negativity on this forum, its taken on ridiculous levels since the 5DII announcement, this is just another thing to jump on.

Julian Contributing Member • Posts: 520
Autofocus needs to be fast + accurate for video

What is apparent is that neither Canon nor Nikon has really thought the video feature through fully - and they are just squeezing into the first available new bodies they have going out the door.

From Canons perspective Why would you put video into a camera - that has a 3 year old slow autofocus system designed into it - the 2 dont go together - video needs fast accurate autofocus - unless you plan to not shoot with wide DOF and then why the DSLR in the first place.

Then we have Nikon - who with their D90 are not giving us a full frame video option - nor video with the best sensor that they have available - or their best autofocus unit.

Its like they are both saying - this video function - its for the amateur market - and its a nice to have extra - and not more than that. At least thats how I read it.

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oka Regular Member • Posts: 210
AF - does it really matters?

I have been reading for a while these AF complains and I just don't get it. Yes, for sports and shooting fast moving objects with AI Servo on 5D doesn't work at all BUT for journalistic work it's more than usable (...as most of used body on wedding field is 5D).

So ... how many shots you have lost because of slow AF? For most of us, faster AF doesn't change anything, it just makes shooting easier but the results are same if you just know how to use it.

...but yes, overral speed of 5D is big slow (lag, blackout, AF lock) and could and should be improved but it's not THAT BIG problem.

lol101 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,855
Re: Autofocus needs to be fast + accurate for video

Julian wrote:

What is apparent is that neither Canon nor Nikon has really thought
the video feature through fully - and they are just squeezing into
the first available new bodies they have going out the door.

From Canons perspective Why would you put video into a camera - that
has a 3 year old slow autofocus system designed into it - the 2 dont
go together - video needs fast accurate autofocus - unless you plan
to not shoot with wide DOF and then why the DSLR in the first place.

No video needs good MF technique and possibilities...

AF is just not good enough for video with large aperture lenses, even on Nikon high end bodies...

Then we have Nikon - who with their D90 are not giving us a full
frame video option - nor video with the best sensor that they have
available - or their best autofocus unit.

Its like they are both saying - this video function - its for the
amateur market - and its a nice to have extra - and not more than
that. At least thats how I read it.

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David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,342
Good reply

Sometimes this armchair quarterbacking gets really anoying.

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Shamus1
Shamus1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,717
Duh. If the better sensor doesn't fit in the body, make the body bigger.

Just my opinion...

If the 50D has a bigger (and better?) AF unit, whose type and number of cross sensors that can't be used in the 5D (?) because of size, make the 5D big enough to fit it. I bought the 5D for IQ, not for a small body.

CANON, IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE BODY BIGGER, SO BE IT... If I want smaller, I will use a consumer camera. And yes, I do have a 1DMkIII, the size is NOT a problem.

Which is more important, a good AF or small body (on a high end camera)?

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pcunite Senior Member • Posts: 1,398
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

My thanks to everyone who thinks that everything about the old 5D was good enough. Thanks to you Canon need not improve anything. Way to go guys!

David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,342
Re: Remember...

Before Nikon came out with 51 points and the 5D II was announced with AF unchanged from the 5D, I don't remember hearing any complaints either. There was generaly nothing but praise for the 5D. None of those that I personaly know who own them and use them have ever told me, yes it is a good camera but the AF sux. I think the Canon guy has a point, actually.

Maybe no one has ever complained to Canon, they just bitch insessently on DPR.

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Shamus1
Shamus1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,717
Re: Canon interview: 5D MkII AF

And all the video discussion. Nice feature, which I'm sure I will use, BUT...

I want the camera for IQ with stills, good AF, durability, ..... I don't want to waste my time with OOF or lose irreplacable shots. While price tends to seperate the camera's user groups, their are plenty of 'amatuers' using some very fine equipment, taking outstsnding photos, and conversly some 'pros' using 40D's and 20D's (I personally know them). The point... a lot of pros use the 5D. Don't scrimp on AF. While I don't necessarily expect 1D AF, I DO EXPECT better than a xxD series, especially when the new 5D is released after the 50D!

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