New Monochrome Camera

Started Sep 11, 2008 | Discussions
brian Senior Member • Posts: 1,211
New Monochrome Camera

Its now an open secret that Megavision will be unveiling some interesting new cameras at Photokina that are FF (11 and 16 megapixels), with EVF and a Nikon F mount. Most interesting to me is the fact that you'll be able to get these in monochrome, i.e. without the Bayer filters as well as ordinary color versions.

Megavision has long sold monochrome cameras, but the fact that these accepts Nikon mount lenses directly makes them particularly interesting.
--
J. Brian Caldwell

exp1orer
exp1orer Senior Member • Posts: 2,813
well...it's boring to me...

...if it doesn't accept pentax mount lenses.

brian wrote:

Its now an open secret that Megavision will be unveiling some
interesting new cameras at Photokina that are FF (11 and 16
megapixels), with EVF and a Nikon F mount. Most interesting to me is
the fact that you'll be able to get these in monochrome, i.e. without
the Bayer filters as well as ordinary color versions.

Megavision has long sold monochrome cameras, but the fact that these
accepts Nikon mount lenses directly makes them particularly
interesting.
--
J. Brian Caldwell

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thebard37 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,225
How much . ..

. . . will they cost, and will they be cumbersome bricks?
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Comments are always welcome.

Zach Bellino

'Nothing, like something, happens anywhere.”
-- from 'I Remember, I Remember'
Philip Larkin (1922-1985)

Joesiv Veteran Member • Posts: 5,497
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Sounds interesting, I always thought a monochrome sensor would be a nice addition to a system. Great clarity without the filters! Oh, and potentially larger pixels too due to the lack of grouping.
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Ron Parr Forum Pro • Posts: 13,785
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Joesiv wrote:

Sounds interesting, I always thought a monochrome sensor would be a
nice addition to a system. Great clarity without the filters! Oh,
and potentially larger pixels too due to the lack of grouping.

Not sure what you mean about grouping. Anyway, here are some comments from an owner of a rare Kodak B&W digital SLR:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/kodak-760m.shtml

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Les Olson Senior Member • Posts: 2,081
Monochrome Cameras

Of the big manufacturers at least Nikon and Olympus make monochrome sensors already for microscopy, and they could, presumably, adapt these for consumer cameras.

The site discussing monochrome backs for MF cameras is http://www.mega-vision.com/products/Mono/Mono.htm
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morninglight Senior Member • Posts: 1,288
Re: Monochrome Cameras

Thanks to OP, had not heard of these.
Anybody know what they cost?
Any reviews?

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OP brian Senior Member • Posts: 1,211
Re: Monochrome Cameras

morninglight wrote:

Thanks to OP, had not heard of these.
Anybody know what they cost?
Any reviews?

I'll find out more about price, specs, etc. when I get to Photokina in about two weeks. A specialized product like this will likely be below Phil Askey's radar.

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Les Olson Senior Member • Posts: 2,081
Re: Monochrome Cameras

Cost is buckets (it is always bad news when the manufacturer's website has a section for "leasing options"). Reviews also cost: wide-format-printers.net/digitalcameraspro_entrylevel/digital_photo.php?prod=MegavisionBW
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'Of course I have. His brother used to be captain of India.'

Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,315
Who is using the Megavision name now?

brian wrote:

Its now an open secret that Megavision will be unveiling some
interesting new cameras at Photokina that are FF (11 and 16
megapixels), with EVF and a Nikon F mount.

Brian, didn't Megavision go under around 2006? Their website was last updated in 2005.

I don't recall anyone launching a new 16mp FF sensor recently (at least anyone who would sell to an operation as small as Megavision). The existing Megavision backs are

11mp 24x36mm
16mp 36x36mm

Most interesting to me is
the fact that you'll be able to get these in monochrome, i.e. without
the Bayer filters as well as ordinary color versions.

That is interesting.

Megavision has long sold monochrome cameras, but the fact that these
accepts Nikon mount lenses directly makes them particularly
interesting.

Yes, if it's true.

Did you know you're being quoted on the "Nikon Rumors" site?

http://nikonrumors.com/2008/09/12/megavision-and-nikon.aspx

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Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

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Joesiv Veteran Member • Posts: 5,497
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Ron Parr wrote:

Joesiv wrote:

Sounds interesting, I always thought a monochrome sensor would be a
nice addition to a system. Great clarity without the filters! Oh,
and potentially larger pixels too due to the lack of grouping.

Not sure what you mean about grouping. Anyway, here are some
comments from an owner of a rare Kodak B&W digital SLR:

I just meant, instead of RGB filtered photosites being needed for each eventual pixel (grouped by demosaicing step), for a said 12MP or whatever body, each monochrome pixel can be bigger, or the camera can be a lot higher resolution.
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JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,672
Re: well...it's boring to me...

Well you're a fairly boring git then aren't you! Why bother post as you are only interested in your camera and not the work it produces obviously.
Jules

exp1orer wrote:

...if it doesn't accept pentax mount lenses.

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,672
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Can you explain to me how this could be better than shooting colour and converting to black and white, We are professional portrait shooters producing all of our work in quality B&W large prints.
Jules

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rgmoore Senior Member • Posts: 2,340
Re: New Monochrome Camera

JulesJ wrote:

Can you explain to me how this could be better than shooting colour
and converting to black and white.

The sensor resolution can be substantially higher. Using a Bayer array, as in conventional color DSLRs- cuts the level of detail substantially. The color at each pixel is reconstructed from that pixel and the surrounding pixels, which cuts resolution. Bayer cameras also need to use relatively strong anti-alias filters, which blur the detail even more. Monochrome cameras can use the full luminance data at each pixel, and they need a much weaker AA filter. The result is that a dedicated monochrome camera will probably resolve about as well as a desaturated color picture from a camera with twice the pixel count.

And that assumes that you're just desaturating. If you use a strong blue or red filter, the effective resolution of a color sensor drops even further, while the monochrome sensor retains full resolution. Monochrome sensors are also 1-2 stops more sensitive than the same sensor with a Bayer array. Those two points are probably of less interest to you as a portrait photographer than they would be to a news or landscape photographer.
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Ron Parr Forum Pro • Posts: 13,785
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Joesiv wrote:

I just meant, instead of RGB filtered photosites being needed for
each eventual pixel (grouped by demosaicing step), for a said 12MP or
whatever body, each monochrome pixel can be bigger, or the camera can
be a lot higher resolution.

But that's not how it works - there's no grouping.

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JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,672
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Thanks for that.
jules

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A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you the less you know. Arbus.

OP brian Senior Member • Posts: 1,211
Re: New Monochrome Camera

I agree with the points made by rgmoore. The increased resolution/sharpness is particularly appealing.

In addition, a true monochrome camera gives you much greater flexibility for doing IR and particularly UV photography. This is the part that interests me most, particularly for doing multispectral work.

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OP brian Senior Member • Posts: 1,211
Re: Who is using the Megavision name now?

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

brian wrote:

Its now an open secret that Megavision will be unveiling some
interesting new cameras at Photokina that are FF (11 and 16
megapixels), with EVF and a Nikon F mount.

Brian, didn't Megavision go under around 2006? Their website was last
updated in 2005.

Hi Joe - I was hoping you would find this thread! Megavision is very much alive and well, and I'm looking forward to visiting their stand at Photokina later this month. Albeit little, it is nonetheless a very cool company run by bright people who are very approachable.

I don't recall anyone launching a new 16mp FF sensor recently (at
least anyone who would sell to an operation as small as Megavision).
The existing Megavision backs are

11mp 24x36mm
16mp 36x36mm

Kodak currently makes both 11MP and 16MP CCDs in 36x24mm format: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Interline/index.jhtml?pq-path=11937/11938/12032 . I think Megavision uses Kodak sensors in most if not all of their products.

These sensors are also used in cooled astronomy cameras such as those offered by SBIG. I've often thought about getting one of the SBIG cameras just so I could do some proper multispectral work, but I'm hopeful that the Megavision offerings will be alot more practical for non-astro stuff.

Most interesting to me is
the fact that you'll be able to get these in monochrome, i.e. without
the Bayer filters as well as ordinary color versions.

That is interesting.

Megavision has long sold monochrome cameras, but the fact that these
accepts Nikon mount lenses directly makes them particularly
interesting.

Yes, if it's true.

Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?

Did you know you're being quoted on the "Nikon Rumors" site?

http://nikonrumors.com/2008/09/12/megavision-and-nikon.aspx

Good!

-- hide signature --

Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving
grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

-- hide signature --
Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,315
Why not make your own...

brian wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

brian wrote:

Its now an open secret that Megavision will be unveiling some
interesting new cameras at Photokina that are FF (11 and 16
megapixels), with EVF and a Nikon F mount.

Brian, didn't Megavision go under around 2006? Their website was last
updated in 2005.

Hi Joe - I was hoping you would find this thread!

Well, you did use the "m" word.

Megavision is very
much alive and well, and I'm looking forward to visiting their stand
at Photokina later this month. Albeit little, it is nonetheless a
very cool company run by bright people who are very approachable.

Cool. Looking forward to you summary.

I don't recall anyone launching a new 16mp FF sensor recently (at
least anyone who would sell to an operation as small as Megavision).
The existing Megavision backs are

11mp 24x36mm
16mp 36x36mm

Kodak currently makes both 11MP and 16MP CCDs in 36x24mm format:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Interline/index.jhtml?pq-path=11937/11938/12032 . I think Megavision uses Kodak sensors in most if not all of their products.

I believe they do.

These sensors are also used in cooled astronomy cameras such as those
offered by SBIG. I've often thought about getting one of the SBIG
cameras just so I could do some proper multispectral work, but I'm
hopeful that the Megavision offerings will be alot more practical for
non-astro stuff.

Did you ever consider taking one of those $1400 D2X bodies you see on the used market, breaching the sensor, dissolving the microlenses and Bayer filters with solvent, and replacing the sensor window with a piece of quartz.

I've done it to a D100, so I know that sensor is amicable.

Iliah Borg did it to a D2X, so we know that one is, too.

I want something with liveview, and haven't decided to gamble a D300 just yet. Maybe a D90, for UV and IR monochrome movies...

Most interesting to me is
the fact that you'll be able to get these in monochrome, i.e. without
the Bayer filters as well as ordinary color versions.

That is interesting.

Megavision has long sold monochrome cameras, but the fact that these
accepts Nikon mount lenses directly makes them particularly
interesting.

Yes, if it's true.

Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?

Fearful?

Did you know you're being quoted on the "Nikon Rumors" site?

http://nikonrumors.com/2008/09/12/megavision-and-nikon.aspx

Good!

Are you sure? That's the same site that recently quoted two of Joseph Spina's "leaks" about upcoming cameras. (If you don't remember Mr. Spina, he's a teenager who claims to be the director of photography for National Geographic).

-- hide signature --

Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

 Joseph S Wisniewski's gear list:Joseph S Wisniewski's gear list
Nikon D3 Nikon D2X Nikon D90 Nikon D100 Nikon Z7 +45 more
Joesiv Veteran Member • Posts: 5,497
Re: New Monochrome Camera

Ron Parr wrote:

Joesiv wrote:

I just meant, instead of RGB filtered photosites being needed for
each eventual pixel (grouped by demosaicing step), for a said 12MP or
whatever body, each monochrome pixel can be bigger, or the camera can
be a lot higher resolution.

But that's not how it works - there's no grouping.

You're right silly me...

I forgot, the downside is just mushy color detail, my bad!

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http://joesiv.smugmug.com

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