50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

Started Sep 2, 2008 | Discussions
Sal Baker Forum Pro • Posts: 11,419
Re: I hope you are kidding.

jagge wrote:

D Wallace wrote:

Thanks for everyone's input. I was about to buy a D90 since it has
22.2% more AF points but then I did some more math and realized the
50D has 25% more MP. 25 > 22.2 so that was all I need to know and I
preordered a 50D but it was very close (less then 3% difference)

I am just a bit surprised by what you base your choise on. Most
experienced shooters will know that the difference between a 15 mp
and 12 mp sensor has no value at all. There is MUCH more to the
equation than that.

Hope you are aware of this.

Actually it can make a difference in noise. If the noise was exactly the same with both cameras, the 50Ds image will be cleaner when downsized (or the D90 up-sized) to the same size. Of course we haven't even seen these cameras in the marketplace yet so who knows, but every little bit helps when making large prints.


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SuperSport Senior Member • Posts: 1,212
"Fanboy Wars"

This is exciting!

jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,876
One word. Competition.
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NickMJr Veteran Member • Posts: 3,752
Re: 50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

mswindell wrote:

Mind you the above examples are based on -2EV through +2EV. On
Nikon's D300 you can EC + - 5EV. If you decided to try to go past + -
2EV you will get into multi-second exposures for the highlight

isn't the max EV step on the D300 only 1 stop? I think the max EV
range with 9 frames in total is 8.

The Nikon D300 can be configured for either 1/3, 1/2 or 1 stop adjustment for Flash Exp Comp, Exp Comp and for ISO steps.

The total number of frames for Exposure bracketing is 9 not 8 frames and can be done in 1/3 eV increments.
Nick M

SuperSport Senior Member • Posts: 1,212
Re: Please explain

What you really want to know is what makes a "Fanboy" a "Fanboy", and I must say I am really interested as well.

Fred Ferkel wrote:

Please explain this to me, I'm really curious. Why does the perceived
fact, that the 50D has leapfrogged the D300, entice you to such a
joyous outbreak? You remind me of someone whose daughter has been
given a Harvard scholarship, or has won big money in the lottery or
is about to go on a date with Jessica Alba.

Really, why do you and others on dpreview care so much about the
success of the company that makes your camera??? Do you all hold 20%
of all Canon stock or are you all in Nikon management and your salary
is based on the company's profit? Or is your own life so devoid of
success that a camera brand has to achieve it for you??? I don't
really understand fanatic fans of sports clubs but fans of camera
brands??? Holy moly. Please explain.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Yep, and in record time! (NT)

snappey wrote:

Looking at the feature list, sensor and introductory price, it looks
to me like Canon has just leapfrogged the D300 with the 50D.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: Missing only 51/45 point AF. (nt)

carlk wrote:

They'd still be missing if I had 'em. I turn all of them off except the center one.

cacophony Regular Member • Posts: 377
You're truly delusional. 50D biggest disappointment in years. n/t

no text

eelnoraa Regular Member • Posts: 447
What a stupid statement this is

First, 50d is not out. 2nd, even if it is better than D300, is is 1+ year later. If 50D is not better, Canon serious has issue.

Now, I would say Nikon users don't really care about 50D. It is not a body that will make Nikon users switch. It was not like 20D and 5D which attrack N user to C OR the more recent D3 and D700 which attract C user to N.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: 50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

Fearless_Photog wrote:

I guess that's true if you car about on paper specs more than AF
performance, build quality, image quality, FPS, or lens system
quality. Which seems to be the case with a lot of people.

Umm... 50D AF performance - superior, build quality - excellent, image quality - superior, FPS - superior (w/o need for BG), lens system - superior. So, the 50D has all that and the specs, too.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: 50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

mswindell wrote:

Definitely agree on most specs, but wide EV range in AEB is also very
important for HDR. D300 is up to 9 frames/8 EV range in AEB. Both 50D
and D90 "appear" to be up to 3 frames/4 EV range AEB. For HDR this is
a big difference.

Hoping that either the 50D or D90 will ship with higher than 3 frame
AEB. Based on the other specs of these cameras 7 or 9 frame AEB looks
very achievable, hoping the Canon/Nikon marketing folks think its a
good idea at this model range. If you don't care about HDR then specs
as published look awsome.

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm very interested in HDR. And I found myself wishing the 40D had more than 3 frame bracketing. I assume the 50D will have the same bracketing as the 40D, but I hope it has more, since I preordered a 50D yesterday. Of course, you can always manually expose as many shots as you want. But, its nice for it to be automatic.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: Mega Mega PIXELS!!!

MrWante wrote:

Oh yeah and with 15 megapixels the 50D is SOOOOOOO much better than
the hopelessly obsolete cameras with only mere 12! With 15 megapixels
all my photos will be so much better and everyone will be green with

With no downside in terms of noise, why not have a 25% (50% over the 40D)increase in resolution? Some people act like the better low light performance of the 50D is somehow mitigated by the increased resolution. Nonsense!

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: Let the sales determine who leapfrogs who

Aaron@Utah wrote:

I have a sneaking suspiction that the D90 will be twice the seller of
the 50D

And the 50D will be twice the seller of the D300, which it competes with and defeats (if deeds match claims). Compare the D90 and Rebel XSi (450D) sales. Let's keep it apples to apples.

da_Feeniks Contributing Member • Posts: 648
Unless I am missing something...

Rob Ashton wrote:

You cannot make statements like that. You have no knowledge of the
50d AF performance and as far as build goes the 50d is a match for
the D300. Go read up on the specs and then wait to see how the AF
performs before putting your foot in your mouth.

...the 40D Autofocus system and general build quality (ie: weather sealing, or lack thereof) is carried over into the 50D (at least by direct comparison of information contained on this site).

Since I own a 40D, the logical conclusion would be, if the 50D is "essentially a 40D body wrapped around a newly-developed 15 megapixel sensor" (direct DPR quote) then I believe we already have a very good, reliable means of knowing the AF performance and build quality of the 50D.

Until proven otherwise, I stand by my statement. The D300 has better build quality and AF performance, though the 50D looks to have superior image quality.

I am the last sane person on earth.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: you got to be kidding

jagge wrote:

It seems you insist on making a fool out of your self. Now if you
where a bit neutral and objective its very difficult to state that
the 50D leapfrogged the D300. Sorry but that statement just goes to
show that you dont really know what you are talking about.

Actually, his statement shows he DOES know what he's talking about. When you have superior resolution and superior low-light performance, there is a definite "leap-frog" going on compared to the D300.

The AF engine in the D300 is a fully pro system with 51 focus points,

49 of which would be turned off 99% of the time.

The D300 is a fully pro cam,

Nope, semi-pro advanced amateur--just like the 40D and 50D

There is no doubt that on IQ alone the 50D will rival the D300, maybe
even have a bit higher resolution, but your "leapfrog" statement
clearly shows that you have no idea that there is more to a camera
than that.

Clearly you are not considering the superior low light performance paired with 25% more resolution than a D300. This is a "leap-frog" event. The 50D adds 50% more resolution (over the 40D) while improving low-light performance by at least 1 stop. If the D400 came out with 18 MP and a 1-stop improvement in low light, would you minimize that achievment?

It will be a very capable cam but leapfrogging. A statement like that
is very typical for posters who try to fit into the brand group,
searching for friends and allies.

Except when the statement is true, as in this case.

da_Feeniks Contributing Member • Posts: 648
Just a minor correction, Tack...

Tacksharp wrote:

The D300 is a fully pro cam,

Nope, semi-pro advanced amateur--just like the 40D and 50D

While I concur with most of what you wrote, the D300 is indeed, according to Nikon, a professional body. It is listed as a pro body by NPS and counts toward NPS member qualification, as does the D700 (D300 with FX/FF sensor). The D3/D300/D700 are all professional caliber bodies, and NPS' only current production bodies that are. I do not believe the 40D/50D qualify as professional bodies by CPS (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Just a nitpick, but for future reference.

I am the last sane person on earth.

Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: Missing only 51/45 point AF. (nt)

JDavis37 wrote:

Many missing features the D300 has. If these features are menaingless
to your eeds then it's a wash there but for others it means
something. Ability to AF at F8

Big advantage! I didn't know this about the D300.

more AF sensors at least near the center that can
be grouped together to aid with AI Servo.

Sounds good, but the 40D tracks pretty well already.

A true spot meter, ability to assign the spot
to the active AF point

Kinda cool, but a practical advantage only when mounted to a tripod.

This is NOT to bash any of the XXD bodies but to say the 50D has gone
past the D300 is a very subjective statement.

Actually, I think it is an objective statement. The technical achievement of adding 50% more pixels while improving low-light performance substantially cannot be overstated. And this overshadows the good, but relatively minor, features advantages the D300 has.

From a sensor viewpoint
it may well have.. time and more samples will dictate that. From a
body feature list it certainly has NOT. Just have to keep this real.
A D300 using the 50D's sensor and Canon mount would be just grand...
add Canon's ergonomics even better ( for me ).

You may have a point there.

Getting rid of the direct print button.. priceless, not to mention
the rather amateurish new Auto Creative selection.. I'd love to see
the basic zones entirely deleted.. one basic automatic/P mode should
be sufficient for a camera body in this price range. My 3 pennies..
valid for me but obviously not for everyone and none of us will get
everything we want

Good points. I agree with most of them.

Alan from Sunny Isles Beach FL Regular Member • Posts: 474
Re: Yep, its embarresing

jagge wrote:

Get over your anger and accept that they are pro bodies!

Yep posts like who dispute facts like that are a bit pathetic. I
would be more interesting to get some input to why those bodies
doesnt constitute a professional tool.

But I guess that wont be fruitful since they apparently dont base
their post on knowledge but more on emotions.

Best wishes


Here are quotes from the Nikon site...

from the D3 page. This is the D3's description...

"Flagship pro D-SLR with a 12.1-MP FX-format CMOS sensor, blazing 9 fps shooting at full FX resolution and low-noise performance up to 6400 ISO."


and from the D300 page. This is the D300's description...

"The D300 is a Pro-level D-SLR with a 12.3-MP DX-format CMOS sensor with Nikon EXPEED Image Processing System and large, 3-inch 920,000-dot color LCD."


and from the D700 page. This is the D700's description...

"Handling agility fused with Nikon’s 12.1-megapixel FX-format CMOS sensor, assures professional image quality with low-noise, high-ISO performance."


Bottom-line, Nikon seems to be playing with semantics with its customers. It seems they don't like the term Prosumer anymore. So they've changed to "Pro-level". If you notice, the D200's description says "Pro-level D-SLR featuring a high performance 10.2-MP DX-format CCD, Nikon's exclusive Image Processing Engine and continuous firing up to 5 fps." I don't care how much you love suckin' on Nikon's appendages, NO ONE in the real world will ever use Professional and D200 in the same breathe. Yet there it is...


To make this long story come to an end. Just know that Canon calls 'em Prosumer, and Nikon calls 'em Pro-level. Either way, they aren't PRO bodies.

If you don't believe me. Why don't they call the D3 a Pro-level camera?

Because its not, its a TRUE "Pro".


Tacksharp Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: 50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

Fearless_Photog wrote:

Rob Ashton wrote:

We'll wait and see the IQ. FPS are as near as not worth mentioning.

People made a big deal out of the 10fps of the 1D Mark III, 8fps
compared to 6.3 is a decent difference, and worth mentioning if you
shoot sports/wildlife.

Ok, let's now make a big deal out of the fact that you have to buy a $234 battery grip to get 8 fps on the D300, and even then you're only doing 12-bits and 12.3 MP. I'd rather have 6.3 fps w/o battery grip, 14-bit color, and 15.1 MP all at higher ISO (for shutter speed) and lower noise. I think this will yield better IQ shots--not to mention save hundreds of dollars and a bit of weight.

Lens system is superior in most cases.

Care to name some of these cases?

How 'bout Canon's 17-55 vs. Nikon's 17-55? The Nikon has better construction and is sealed, but the Canon has an IQ advantage and has 3-stop image stabilization (and is more affordable and lighter). Also, you should be used to hearing about the Canon 70-200 f/4L IS USM by now--something Nikon has no match for at the moment.

So it looks as if the 50d is as good as (if not better) than the Nikon offering.

Depends on how good at ignoring facts you are.

Looks to me he is very BAD at ignoring the facts.... and very RIGHT.

Kabe Luna
Kabe Luna Veteran Member • Posts: 9,496
But that AF system is now linked to the color data from the 1005px RGB meter...

...so obviously the governing algorithms have to have been rewritten, and who knows what impact, for better or worse, that'll have on AF performance.

Fearless_Photog wrote:

Sal Baker wrote:

Don't evaluate based on a pre-production prototype camera. And no
one knows anything yet about the AF on either camera.

How does no one know anything about the AF on either camera?
Obviously you're ignorant, but not everyone is so ignorant, the D90
uses the CAM1000 module, the same one used in the D200 and D80, this
is clearly stated in the review, the owners of those cameras probably
know quite a bit about the AF. The 50D's AF is the same 9 point
cross type setup as the 40D, users of this camera will also be
familiar with it. Neither of these systems come close to the CAM3500
in the D300/D3/D700.

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