50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

Started Sep 2, 2008 | Discussions
Franka T.L. Veteran Member • Posts: 8,148
It should, consider the time between these 2

Technology in digital imaging advanced at a pace quite a speed, and between when D300 were launched and 50D, it should surprise no one that this is the case. No need to shout on that

Still, the main thing to many is if those performance / feature are reuired ...

my EOS-350D still happily producing great image for me , and I am not that bit in haste to get to the 450d, or the 50D for the matter.

-- hide signature --

  • Franka -

John Storjohann Contributing Member • Posts: 859
Normally I'd stay out of a thread like this...

...but isn't ironic that the OP posted this some 17 hours ago...hasn't returned to the thread...and yet we have so many people verbally beating each other up over a comment that is purely speculative and certainly subjective to the extreme?

-- hide signature --

Keep chasing the light!

John

SmokinMan Contributing Member • Posts: 855
I am a very nice person.....

unless ofcourse if i am attacked first.

Showing pics to prove AF by no means factual......there are many thing behind it that we can hide. If I show you one incredible(much better than yours) almost impossible to get action shots from the old 10D...what does it mean to you? 10D AF better than 300D? No? Lucky? Maybe the photographer spent 24/7 sitting there for the one shot he want? Maybe he/she wasted 1000/10000 shots just to get that one shot? But i can assure you that whatever the 10D get, no matter how incredible the shot is, you will still believe the general assumption that 300D AF is better than 10D AF....should I go on?

The factual conversation has been well documented over on your side. When you see a repetitive discussion all across photography forums with regard to AF on 1DMKIII you would better believe that it is true. If you heard the same repetitive discussion about 300D AF being slow when the 51AF point is activated then ...this is factual.
--
SmokinMan

maxpayne Contributing Member • Posts: 656
Re: I am a very nice person.....

I bet you don't use auto focus at all too? I mean its just a gimmic, right? Surely focus, determination, opportunity blah blah yada yada... will get you nice pictures without auto focus too?

 maxpayne's gear list:maxpayne's gear list
Nikon D90 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G
ohyva Veteran Member • Posts: 6,342
Re: 51 pt AF samples

PerL wrote:

SmokinMan wrote:

Correct...dont know what are those fanboy so proud of the 51 point AF
of the 300D. It is well known by now that the 51 point AF on the 300D
just look good on paper. No power to operate all the points. It is
crippled(they like to say about this to Canon)

Dont want to participate too much in these discussions which tend to
go out of hand but here are some samples of 51 pt AF-C dynamic with a
D300 for those who thinks it doesnt work or is "painfullly slow" as
some claimed.
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/91225319/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/93916999/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/97185367/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/98040663/original.jpg

Decent pics OK, but nothing I see I could not do with my 7-point AF (350D) or 9-point AF (30D upgraded recently to 40D) cameras. Not dog shots, but many sport and very many soccer pics taken.

BTW the swedish bird photographer pro Brutus Östling who tested the
AF of the 50D was very impressed with it, so its probably very good.

Michael Kilpatrick Senior Member • Posts: 1,102
Re: Normally I'd stay out of a thread like this...

and the OP is probably sitting back laughing at the flood of utterly predictable responses.

-- hide signature --

Michael Kilpatrick
http://www.pbase.com/mrk03

El Taino Senior Member • Posts: 1,105
Re: I am a very nice person.....

SmokinMan wrote:

unless ofcourse if i am attacked first.

Showing pics to prove AF by no means factual......there are many
thing behind it that we can hide. If I show you one incredible(much
better than yours) almost impossible to get action shots from the old
10D...what does it mean to you? 10D AF better than 300D? No? Lucky?
Maybe the photographer spent 24/7 sitting there for the one shot he
want? Maybe he/she wasted 1000/10000 shots just to get that one shot?
But i can assure you that whatever the 10D get, no matter how
incredible the shot is, you will still believe the general assumption
that 300D AF is better than 10D AF....should I go on?

SmokinMan

-- hide signature --

You seem to refuse to believe. I agree with you that many things can be hidden. I used a D100 for years and at 3FPS I was able to achieve great action shots if I dedicated a lot of time and shots to get them. I've got a D300 to have the AF reviewed and didn't have 24/7 waiting for the shot to happen and be captured. As a matter of fact, I only had 2 days from Saturday to Sunday and by Monday the camera was returned FEDEX. It is true, there is a minor letargic time to aquire focus at 51. But this is in no way a let down. All I had to do was to create a technique to be ahead of the action to compensate. There is nothing wrong with it and it is done with top models from Nikon and Canon. Sports shooters have been doing it for years. All I can tell is that once the D300 aquires focus which is not really hard for it, you either stop shooting because you nalied the shot or you can go on until the buffer is full.

I know that the secuence might not be impresive, but it proved what we wanted to prove on a slow screw driven 80-200 AF-D 2 Rings F/2.8 lens. Now lets imagine it with AF-S lenses. These guys were doing around 50/60MPH towards our lens. There are other shots taken with this purpose which were discussed in a private forum.

Put that power on a proffesional weather sealed body along with a weather sealed lens and you have a killer combo.

PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,048
Sorry I misunderstod you

SmokinMan wrote:

unless ofcourse if i am attacked first.

Showing pics to prove AF by no means factual......there are many
thing behind it that we can hide. If I show you one incredible(much
better than yours) almost impossible to get action shots from the old
10D...what does it mean to you? 10D AF better than 300D? No? Lucky?
Maybe the photographer spent 24/7 sitting there for the one shot he
want? Maybe he/she wasted 1000/10000 shots just to get that one shot?
But i can assure you that whatever the 10D get, no matter how
incredible the shot is, you will still believe the general assumption
that 300D AF is better than 10D AF....should I go on?

The factual conversation has been well documented over on your side.
When you see a repetitive discussion all across photography forums
with regard to AF on 1DMKIII you would better believe that it is
true. If you heard the same repetitive discussion about 300D AF being
slow when the 51AF point is activated then ...this is factual.
--
SmokinMan

When I first read your post, I took it as you tried to insult me, but then I think I understood what you meant, so I deleted my answer , but I guess you managed to read it before my delete. Sorry about that.

As for your point, you can see for instance in this gallery (dog shots, ski shots) that these wasnt singular "luck shots" (in terms of AF):
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d300-af
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d300_orsa

I am not saying that the D300 AF is better than 40D or 50D because I have never used any of those, but I am saying that the 51-point mode in D300 is not in any way slow or unsuited for action shots, which seems to be suggested by some.

PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,048
Re: 51 pt AF samples

ohyva wrote:

PerL wrote:

SmokinMan wrote:

Correct...dont know what are those fanboy so proud of the 51 point AF
of the 300D. It is well known by now that the 51 point AF on the 300D
just look good on paper. No power to operate all the points. It is
crippled(they like to say about this to Canon)

Dont want to participate too much in these discussions which tend to
go out of hand but here are some samples of 51 pt AF-C dynamic with a
D300 for those who thinks it doesnt work or is "painfullly slow" as
some claimed.
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/91225319/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/93916999/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/97185367/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/image/98040663/original.jpg

Decent pics OK, but nothing I see I could not do with my 7-point AF
(350D) or 9-point AF (30D upgraded recently to 40D) cameras. Not dog
shots, but many sport and very many soccer pics taken.

ohyva, I am just trying to lay to rest the myth that the 51-point mode on the D300 is too slow for good action shots.

BTW the swedish bird photographer pro Brutus Östling who tested the
AF of the 50D was very impressed with it, so its probably very good.

jp Senior Member • Posts: 1,151
Depends on what you are using it for

The 50D sensor will probably be better than the D300s
The jpeg conversion probably is too.

Ultmately, in optimal conditions, the 50D's IQ will probably outperform that of the D300 at all ISO settings when scaled to the same resolution.

Canon will never accept being overtaken in that department by sony/Nkon and chancers are that we are in for a few supprises of things to come from their sensor development engeneers.

The two main reasons I still prefer my D300 (apart from the fact that I just nvested in a couple of new lensens) are

  • AF frame coverage is superb and AF flexibility exactely matches my requirements

  • I clearly prefer the exposure meter of the D300 (Unless the 50D has a substantially different metering from the 40D and 30D, but I seriously doubt it)

Either way, the 50D looks like a great camera once again and canon users can be glad with such a nice addition to the already incredibly impressive EOS DSLR range.

-- hide signature --

cameras don't shoot people
People shoot people.

Bohdan Senior Member • Posts: 1,122
Do you own stock in Canon ?

if not, then who actually cares ?

Hopefully you have the same enthusiasm for your photography as you do in hardware.

From a Canon owner who doesn't care what others are using/shooting/thinking/(fill in the blank)

-- hide signature --

I may be, and probably am, completely wrong.

Fred Mueller Senior Member • Posts: 2,528
right on JP

exactly right....

the technology is moving so fast that what you buy today is very quickly improved on....but this is a good thing - no?

the competition serves us all well finally

the fan-boy arguments are just so silly.....

I think the sample photos from both cameras look tremendous - in the sense that "if I had the $$" I would be thrilled to have either camera....

.

heinzguderian Senior Member • Posts: 1,550
Yes it is

Rob Ashton wrote:

The D700 isn't even classified as a full Pro body. Only the D3 is
considered as a Pro body. the D300 and D700 are classified as
Prosumer bodies.

Take a look at http://www.europe-nikon.com/family/en_GB/categories/broad/318.html Now, are you saying you know better than the people who make them?

These classifications are a load of rubbish anyway. I can use a
Canon 400d or 450d for Pro work so that makes it a Pro body. I can
buy a 1DSMkIII as an amateur and produce crud with it so that makes
it a consumer body.

That's very true, but that is not the point that is being discussed here.

Get over the stupid marketing BS and hype and get real.

Get over your anger and accept that they are pro bodies!

Rob
--
Cutting my losses and moving on soon

WillemB
WillemB Senior Member • Posts: 1,189
Re: comparing...

I think Japanese custom is to not shame the opponent too much. Therefore both Nikon and Canon would exploit the gaps between each others products. So you are comparing apples with oranges if you compare 50D with D300. With the D90 Nikon are throwing a spanner in the works by introducing video, but perhaps they only wanted a product in between 40D an 50D? Regards,
--
WillemB

 WillemB's gear list:WillemB's gear list
Fujifilm X100T Fujifilm X-T1 Nikon D750 +1 more
Daniella Forum Pro • Posts: 53,000
yep...missing the AF quality

I am very disapointed that Canon did not upgrade for a better AF. Honestly 9 points really suck.

The space between the points and the layout make for a difficult tracking in AI servo of a smaller subject.

It is ok for larger subjects so when I do snowy owls in flight I have to wait until the bird is big enough in the frame to start tracking. This is a serious disadvantage as I need to start tracking when the bird is pretty close and they are coming in fast!

with more points or a closer layout between them, I could track smaller birds in flight and right now it is a real pain to do.

the D300 has a much much better AF system in the layout and functionality. It is too bad because the 40D has excellent AF when it track the subject large enough in the frame..it is just too limitating as it is.

even the D90 will be 11 points.. wow those Canon 9 points really start to look bad bad bad.

snappey wrote:

Looking at the feature list, sensor and introductory price, it looks
to me like Canon has just leapfrogged the D300 with the 50D.

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/zylen

'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

Daniella Forum Pro • Posts: 53,000
Re: Missing only 51/45 point AF. (nt)

DKHerlev wrote:

Re: Missing only 51/45 point AF. (nt)

carlk, the 50D has 15 Millions AF points

huuu..no it does not.

only 9

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/zylen

'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

Daniella Forum Pro • Posts: 53,000
Re: Missing only 51/45 point AF. (nt)

Rob Ashton wrote:

This is what I mean here. Too many people rush in without
understanding the facts or simply reading the specs. All they see is
50something AF points against 9 and pronounce the Canon rubbish.

once you actualy start to use 9 points with AI servo, you start to think it is rubbish for many situations. Small subjects tracking is a pain.

I don't know if the 50D will do the same as the 40D and lose AF tracking if the subject fall in betwen the huge gap that lay in the 9 points design, but the 40D does lose AF tracking if the subject does not toutch any of the AF point and if is in between the points in the gap.

Most people will not notice this and will say 9 in enough..those are probably not doing much AI servo tracking.

Get

all the facts and see what it does in real world situations before
hanging it out to dry.

Rob
--
Cutting my losses and moving on soon

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/zylen

'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

Daniella Forum Pro • Posts: 53,000
Re: 50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

Fearless_Photog wrote:

Rob Ashton wrote:

Fearless_Photog wrote:

I guess that's true if you car about on paper specs more than AF
performance, build quality, image quality, FPS, or lens system
quality. Which seems to be the case with a lot of people.

We'll wait to see the AF performance.

We know how both the 40D and D300 perform AF wise, this will be the
same.

Build quality is as good if not better.

Ever considered stand up comedy? You've got to be kidding me.

We'll wait and see the IQ. FPS are as near as not worth mentioning.

People made a big deal out of the 10fps of the 1D Mark III, 8fps
compared to 6.3 is a decent difference, and worth mentioning if you
shoot sports/wildlife.

yeah but you can,t get 8fps out of the stock D300 and you need to put quite a bit more money to get that.

straight out, the D300 is slower in frame rate than the 40D.

Lens system is superior in most cases.

Care to name some of these cases? The Canon 85mm f/1.2 is the only
Canon lens I can think of offhand that could be considered superior
to the equivalent Nikon offering which is 12 years old, and about
half the price, in most other cases it's the opposite.

So it looks as if the 50d is as good as (if not better) than the Nikon offering.

Depends on how good at ignoring facts you are.

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/zylen

'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

Daniella Forum Pro • Posts: 53,000
Re: 50D has leapfrogged D300, not to mention D90

Sal Baker wrote:

Fearless_Photog wrote:

Rob Ashton wrote:

Fearless_Photog wrote:

I guess that's true if you car about on paper specs more than AF
performance, build quality, image quality, FPS, or lens system
quality. Which seems to be the case with a lot of people.

We'll wait to see the AF performance.

We know how both the 40D and D300 perform AF wise, this will be the
same.

You don't "know" squat. How fast does the 50D AF acquire focus?
How well does the center AF point perform with an f/1.4 wide open
lens? How accurate and consistant within DOF is the AF? How quickly
do the perimeter AF points achieve AF vs. the center AF point at
f/2.8? How well does the 50D AF work for wedding shoots? You don't
know any of this do you?

the real question is.. will the 50D lose its tracking in AI servo if the subject fall in the gap between the points? just like the 40D does?

You've never seen a 50D let alone evaluated one. Oh that's right you
don't even own a 40D but you're an expert on it's AF performance.

but the AF on the 50D seem to be the same as the 40D.. darn. They could have least put 11 points.

Wait to see the 50D AF performance, or try it yourself when
production cameras are available (if you dare.)

Sal

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/zylen

'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

Daniella Forum Pro • Posts: 53,000
Re: This cracks me up...

hehe..love your signature!!!

-- hide signature --

http://www.pbase.com/zylen

'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads