No P6000 for me...

Started Aug 7, 2008 | Discussions
JasonOdell Senior Member • Posts: 2,282
No P6000 for me...

I was looking forward to the P6000. I would drop the $500 in a heartbeat if we can just get a P&S from Nikon that is good on the wide end, has decent ISO performance, and produces a NEF file that I can convert in industry-standard apps.

To produce a new RAW file is bad enough. To not offer support for it in Capture NX is even worse. Constrain that format to a PLATFORM (Vista) as well?

That is the old Nikon marketing genius at work, I guess.

Sorry, Nikon. You just lost my $500.

-Jason

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Author, 'The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX 2.0'
http://www.luminescentphoto.com/nx2guide.html

Author, 'The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX'
http://www.luminescentphoto.com/capturenx.html

Visit my website at: http://www.luminescentphoto.com

JC Senior Member • Posts: 1,083
No P6000 for me, either

I'm really disappointed in the P6000 for the reasons that Jason listed (especially RAW processing limited to Windows), and because I wonder how good the images will be from that 13.5 MP sensor. I know it's bigger than most P&S sensors, but I'll wait to see what Nikon and Canon offer in a true compact with an APS-C sensor. Just hope it's soon.

JC

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markdavis Contributing Member • Posts: 567
Re: No P6000 for me...

i hope maybe you can find more about what this NRW format actually is.

it won't be a problem if on mac you couldn't browse and view images like on vista (or xp sp3).

i'm interested on what settings you can change with it before outputing to a tiff. either on pc or on a mac. if you can edit exposure, wb, sharpness and other picture control settings it'll be just fine.

but did you see the samples? they look great. i would be such a shame to mess with the raw.

msolea Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Re: No P6000 for me...

Nor I...

Nikon lost my $500 as well... I really wanted Nikon to have a compact camera that competed head-to-head with the Canon G9. If it did I would be so tempted and probably would have pulled the trigger on the P6000 + SB-400 giving NIkon even more of my money. As it stands, I am leaning more and more towards Canon which does seem to produce superior compact cameras. In my opinion the P600 is just another testament to the fact that Nikon does not care about the compact camera market. In fact, I think they stopped carrying for it after developing the swivel lens.

I will wait another month or two before either getting the Canon G9 or G10 (if announced by the end of Photokina).

Dayo Senior Member • Posts: 2,837
Neither for me.

I could have even lived with Jpeg only but having a platform specific format is totally unacceptable and there is no way I would be contributing my money towards that idea.

Utter madness and it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

I now hate Nikon.

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win39 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,560
Wonder whether the same genius...

who made that decision will be responsible for the APS compact.They should replace all management at the Coolpix dividsion.

bstring Contributing Member • Posts: 973
Re: Wonder whether the same genius...

I too was hoping to see a G9 killer. Personally, I think Panasonic has them all beat with their LX3, but still to be verified. I like the geotagging and ethernet, but the other disappointing features already mentioned means the only customers will be the uninformed in search of megapixels and cash to blow.

karspoul Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: No P6000 for me...

I'll settle for a CP4500s - with nef, faster autofocus, VR and SD-cards. If they really, really must they can up it to 6MP.

Realistically I’ll stay with Panasonic/Leica and Ricoh in this camera type.

I really wonder why Nikon bother producing Coolpixes after all.

cheers,
karspoul

BJN
BJN Veteran Member • Posts: 5,116
Let's hope this doesn't trickle up

Nikon more than any other major camera manufacturer pushes their own raw processing application and their own raw formats. I'm absolutely certain that without strong push-back by Nikon users, there would be no SDK for .nef flavor raw files.

This new platform-specific pseudo raw is a clear indication of Nikon's resistance to open formats. This move alienates Nikon users who have already invested both money and, more importantly, significant time and energy acquiring skills with Capture NX conversion software. In fact, this move will inevitably push some users into third party converters. Not many users because I think most who value raw files won't get within 10 feet of the P6000. This move is bad for Nikon. Why not have another class of cameras with users who might be sold on Capture NX? Why not make a compact camera that a DSLR customer could use with the same software tool? Why not think about how the market will react and have Coolpix again be held-up as Nikon's mickey mouse division? I hope the mouse doesn't escape and infect the DSLR department.

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BJ Nicholls
SLC, UT

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msolea Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Re: Neither for me.

Dayo wrote:

I could have even lived with Jpeg only but having a platform specific
format is totally unacceptable and there is no way I would be
contributing my money towards that idea.

Agreed!

Utter madness and it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

As it does to mine as well.

I now hate Nikon.

I think that is a bit strong... But, Nikon has surely disappointed. As I am primarily invested in Nikon for their DSLRs which they continually make with care and diligence, I do not hate Nikon, but I will probably never buy a Nikon compact camera, especially with Canon seemingly making compact cameras that are better, more responsive and user friendly, at all levels. For me, it is Canon for compact cameras and Nikon for DSLRs.

However, with Canon compact cameras, I am open to other vendor as well. So, this is not a secure buy in. That said, my current choice is between the Panasonic LX3 (when it starts shipping) and the G9 (or G10, if it materializes within the next month or two).

OP JasonOdell Senior Member • Posts: 2,282
Re: Let's hope this doesn't trickle up

Actually, Nikon was beginning to show signs of smoothing over the "WB encryption" fiasco from a few years back. Case in point: the new Adobe ACR Camera Presets-- they look too good and came out too quickly after Nikon's new "landscape" and "portrait" Picture Controls too have been simply reverse-engineered by Adobe. My hunch is that Nikon collaborated with Adobe on that.

What I don't understand is why they would use anything other than their own existing RAW format in a P&S? Seriously, that is a head-scratcher to say the least.

-Jason

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Author, 'The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX 2.0'
http://www.luminescentphoto.com/nx2guide.html

Author, 'The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX'
http://www.luminescentphoto.com/capturenx.html

Visit my website at: http://www.luminescentphoto.com

Dr Mickey Regular Member • Posts: 166
Re: No P6000 for me...

Jason,

I agree. Nikon lost my money as well.

I was so looking forward to the new Photokina announcements regarding point 'n' shoot cameras, and had seen the teasers about the P6000. Everything looked great! My credit card in hand, I was ready to pre-order the P6000 today! I wanted a NEF-capable compact from Nikon, as I have invested untold thousands of dollars in their camera systems over my lifetime.

But whoa! A new RAW format that my newly-purchased Capture NX2 can't deal with? ViewNX will, but the NRW-compatible version doesn't exist yet (and who knows if it will be free)? Adobe Photoshop CS3, ACR, and Lightroom 2.0 can't read it? ACDSee won't display it? Apple users can drop dead (Win XP Pro SP2 here, but empathy for my Apple brothers)!

WTF?
--
My shots online @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/n1xtv/

Thom Hogan
Thom Hogan Forum Pro • Posts: 13,660
Re: No P6000 for me...

JasonOdell wrote:

To produce a new RAW file is bad enough. To not offer support for it
in Capture NX is even worse.

You're not going to like my solution ; ). Write a NRW to DNG converter. That unfortunately doesn't solve your problem.

But I still think what I said on my site is the correct response: don't buy the P6000. If we give Nikon our money and make the P6000 successful, they won't get the message.

Just so I'm clear, the message to Nikon is this: SERIOUS PHOTOGRAPHERS ALREADY HAVE WORKFLOWS. YOU MUST SUPPORT THOSE WORKFLOWS OR YOU'LL LOSE OUR BUSINESS. If Nikon wants to create new workflows, I have no problems with that as long as existing workflows are supported. The really silly thing, of course, is that Nikon isn't even supporting THEIR OWN workflow (Capture NX2).

Underlying all this is a misconception, I think. Some of the companies (both hardware and software) believe that they need to lock users into proprietary formats and workflows. I actually think the opposite: you'll be more successful supporting any and all formats and workflows. While I'm not a DNG fan, the Ricoh GX-100 convinced me of the usefulness of the format, and I applaud Ricoh for making that decision. Just as I condemn Nikon for making the NRW decision.

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Thom Hogan
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http://www.bythom.com

Thom Hogan
Thom Hogan Forum Pro • Posts: 13,660
Re: Let's hope this doesn't trickle up

JasonOdell wrote:

What I don't understand is why they would use anything other than
their own existing RAW format in a P&S? Seriously, that is a
head-scratcher to say the least.

I'm reminded that when Microsoft first revealed WIC, I believe that Nikon made a statement of support and was on the podium. It's possible that someone made the bonehead decision to show how WIC could be supported in a product without thinking about what the dedicated, serious Nikon user might think.

To put it another way: from Nikon's viewpoint, they were just adding support for a partner in a product that they viewed as a JPEG product. From our view as a customer, we see a camera we think should have raw support and it appears that Nikon has decided to change raw formats and stop supporting Macs and Capture NX2! In short, VERY bad decision.

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Thom Hogan
author, Complete Guides to Nikon bodies (18 and counting)
http://www.bythom.com

Dominique Dierick Veteran Member • Posts: 4,495
No coms between Nikon DSLR and P&S divisions?

Perhaps the two departments don't talk to each other, hence the different raw formats :). Perhaps someone is willing to donate a set of phones to Nikon.

D.

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Fabio Amodeo Senior Member • Posts: 1,232
Better cameras around

There are better cameras around. Just ignore this.
Fabio

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Antonio Rojilla Senior Member • Posts: 1,242
Can't NEF support be added via firmware? (n/t)

Thom Hogan wrote:

JasonOdell wrote:

To produce a new RAW file is bad enough. To not offer support for it
in Capture NX is even worse.

You're not going to like my solution ; ). Write a NRW to DNG
converter. That unfortunately doesn't solve your problem.

But I still think what I said on my site is the correct response:
don't buy the P6000. If we give Nikon our money and make the P6000
successful, they won't get the message.

Just so I'm clear, the message to Nikon is this: SERIOUS
PHOTOGRAPHERS ALREADY HAVE WORKFLOWS. YOU MUST SUPPORT THOSE
WORKFLOWS OR YOU'LL LOSE OUR BUSINESS. If Nikon wants to create new
workflows, I have no problems with that as long as existing workflows
are supported. The really silly thing, of course, is that Nikon isn't
even supporting THEIR OWN workflow (Capture NX2).

Underlying all this is a misconception, I think. Some of the
companies (both hardware and software) believe that they need to lock
users into proprietary formats and workflows. I actually think the
opposite: you'll be more successful supporting any and all formats
and workflows. While I'm not a DNG fan, the Ricoh GX-100 convinced me
of the usefulness of the format, and I applaud Ricoh for making that
decision. Just as I condemn Nikon for making the NRW decision.

Dr Mickey Regular Member • Posts: 166
Re: No P6000 for me...

Thom Hogan wrote:

But I still think what I said on my site is the correct response:
don't buy the P6000. If we give Nikon our money and make the P6000
successful, they won't get the message.

Just so I'm clear, the message to Nikon is this: SERIOUS
PHOTOGRAPHERS ALREADY HAVE WORKFLOWS. YOU MUST SUPPORT THOSE
WORKFLOWS OR YOU'LL LOSE OUR BUSINESS. If Nikon wants to create new
workflows, I have no problems with that as long as existing workflows
are supported. The really silly thing, of course, is that Nikon isn't
even supporting THEIR OWN workflow (Capture NX2).

Thom,

I check your site daily and rely on it; your D300 guide rocks!

Could not agree more with your comments above. I bought into the Nikon system and have established a workflow that I will not change for the sake of the P6000.

And how dare Nikon drop support for CNX2 with this camera! Am I now supposed to buy a "pro" version of ViewNX to use the P6000?

Let me also address the whole hot pixel issue: ACR, PSCS3 and Lr 2.0 map them out automatically when displaying NEFS or other formats converted from NEF by Adobe. And that's a good thing; my D300 has a few hot pixels.

CNX2? Nope! View NX? Nope! So the P6000 using View NX as a converter will not map out hot pixels; that's yet another deal-breaker!

I know you recommended buying the Ricoh or the Panny LX3, but dammit, I wanted Nikon to hit one out of the park on this one!

What about the G9/G10?

Michael
--
My shots online @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/n1xtv/

OP JasonOdell Senior Member • Posts: 2,282
Re: No P6000 for me...

Absolutely. I wouldn't mind using another RAW converter if I had to, but I don't even get that option, being that I'm a Mac user. And I'm not getting another P&S that doesn't offer RAW support.

So close, yet so far!

-Jason

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Author, 'The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX 2.0'
http://www.luminescentphoto.com/nx2guide.html

Author, 'The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX'
http://www.luminescentphoto.com/capturenx.html

Visit my website at: http://www.luminescentphoto.com

marczr Regular Member • Posts: 347
Re: who to tell ??

Lets stand up and be counted on this one.

Thom, have you got an email address of anyone at nikon that might listen?

I suggest if we find a suitable recipient we all email them letting them know that we've been let down, and that we will be purchasing another brands high end P&S [again]
--
Marcus

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