10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Started Jul 24, 2008 | Discussions
ianbramham
ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

I received a new filter today in the post....it's a B+W 10 stop neutral density filter in a 77mm thread to fit my Sigma 10-20 lens.

I bought it so I could try long exposure photography in daylight conditions.

It's an expensive piece of glass at £56 from a web based company but normal shops don't seem to stock this kind of thing and filterdepot's price seemed competitive - the filter arrived quickly.

It seems well made and surprisingly heavy for it's size - as you can see from the photos below it appears black rather than transparent and you have to hold it up to very bright light before you can see anything through it.

I went out at lunchtime in some bright sunshine for a walk with my tripod to try it out and I was surprised at how easy my D40 was to use with it on. The procedure I adopted was to set the camera up normally without the filter screwed onto the lens but set in aperture priority to the lens's smallest aperture which at it's 10mm setting is f22 (set at f22 to maximaise shutter speed).....I took a few shots until I was happy with exposure and composition then adjusted the D40's controls to fully manual on the 'bulb' setting and screwed the 10 stop filter onto the front of the lens.

At this point it's impossible to see anything through the viewfinder.

All I did then was to roughly multiply the exposure from the test shot by a factor of 10 to get an approximate idea of how long to expose it on 'bulb'. After reviewing the first shot on the histogram I adjusted the shutter speed slightly and took another shot which then looked properly exposed on the histogram. All in all it was much easier than I was expecting and the 10 stop rating seems accurate.

It was a windy day with quite a few clouds in the sky - as you can see the effect of the filter is to blur the clouds and water. It also has a warming effect when compared to the test shots taken without the fiter.

The results are softer than I'm used to with this lens but it was so windy out there that I'm not sure if this is because my tripod is not sturdy enough or if it's because the photos are at f22. I suspect it's the f stop but I don't object to the softness as I think it adds to the slightly dreamy feel of the photos.

I'm really looking forward to giving the filter a proper trial of landscape photos at dusk on the coast when I go on holiday to France in a few weeks

What do you think?

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

60 second exposure at f22 and iso 200 at 10mm

16 seconds at f22, iso 200 and 10mm

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
Dan Bolger
Dan Bolger Senior Member • Posts: 2,879
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Hello Ian

Nice filter! I have been playing around with the same type of longer exposures but have used multiple square NDs (& grads) rather then a single filter. I didn't know you could buy a 10 stop, will have to look into it. I like your first test shots and look forward to seeing what you come up with when shooting landscapes near dusk.

Here are two I did with the sigma and three NDs (two grads and one normal total of 7 stops).

10mm f14 20sec ISO 100

14mm f14 15sec ISO 100

I will start looking for a 10 stop filter, thanks for posting.

-- hide signature --

Dan
London, Canada
http://www.flickr.com/photos/d_bolger/
D80, rest of gear listed in profile

 Dan Bolger's gear list:Dan Bolger's gear list
Nikon D80 Nikon D300 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm F1.8G Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM +1 more
ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Hi Dan, those are very nice photos!....I didn't think you could stack filters in front of the Sigma 10-20 because of obstructing the wide angle of view which is why I went for this 10 stop B+W version. Did you have to crop anything from the edges of the images due to obstruction or vignetting?

I'm really looking forward to trying some ultra long exposures with my D40 although I have no idea what the practical limits will be to maximum length of time using bulb (does anyone know if there is a limit using 'bulb' on a D40?)

Regards,

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
DezM
DezM Forum Pro • Posts: 35,295
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Looks like a sweet filter Ian and nice shots, but why would you want to do long exposures during daylight?

What will be your uses?
--
Dez

http://photos.dezmix.com

 DezM's gear list:DezM's gear list
Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 II
Dan Bolger
Dan Bolger Senior Member • Posts: 2,879
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

ianbramham wrote:

Hi Dan, those are very nice photos!....I didn't think you could stack
filters in front of the Sigma 10-20 because of obstructing the wide
angle of view which is why I went for this 10 stop B+W version. Did
you have to crop anything from the edges of the images due to
obstruction or vignetting?

No obstruction or vignetting. But also no holder, just held in front of the lens by hand. These turned out pretty well I thought, on some I would get a bit of my thumb or finger and would have to crop. But the only cropping I did here was for composition.

I'm really looking forward to trying some ultra long exposures with
my D40 although I have no idea what the practical limits will be to
maximum length of time using bulb (does anyone know if there is a
limit using 'bulb' on a D40?)

No sure about the D40, but I believe the D80 is 30 minutes, so may be the same. Have fun and post your results.
--

Dan
London, Canada
http://www.flickr.com/photos/d_bolger/
D80, rest of gear listed in profile

 Dan Bolger's gear list:Dan Bolger's gear list
Nikon D80 Nikon D300 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm F1.8G Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM +1 more
Thomas Comerford Veteran Member • Posts: 9,745
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

ianbramham wrote:

It's an expensive piece of glass at £56 from a web based company but
normal shops don't seem to stock this kind of thing and filterdepot's
price seemed competitive - the filter arrived quickly.

Small world - I got mine recently, from the same place (and I've been using it on the same lens)!

At this point it's impossible to see anything through the viewfinder.

If you can block out enough ambient light with your hands, your eyes will adjust to the viewfinder. I'm tempted to try using a black cloth over my head, like the early photographers!

All I did then was to roughly multiply the exposure from the test
shot by a factor of 10 to get an approximate idea of how long to
expose it on 'bulb'. After reviewing the first shot on the histogram
I adjusted the shutter speed slightly and took another shot which
then looked properly exposed on the histogram. All in all it was much
easier than I was expecting and the 10 stop rating seems accurate.

Another trick you can do is shoot at maximum ISO until you get the framing/exposure you want, and the reduce the ISO to 200 and adjust the shutter to maintain the same exposure.

I'm really looking forward to giving the filter a proper trial of
landscape photos at dusk on the coast when I go on holiday to France
in a few weeks

If you don't already have them I'd recommend getting a wireless remote, and a hot-shot mounted bubble level. The exposures will get very very long at dusk so you may need a stopwatch too.

What do you think?

Looks good so far!

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

60 second exposure at f22 and iso 200 at 10mm

16 seconds at f22, iso 200 and 10mm

-- hide signature --
ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

DezM wrote:

Looks like a sweet filter Ian and nice shots, but why would you want
to do long exposures during daylight?

What will be your uses?
--
Dez

Thanks Dez...long exposure photos are something I've been thinking about for a while since first seeing Michael Kenna's images http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/new03/l107.html

There's no prospect of me doing all-night landscape shots like him as he uses film Hassleblads (up to 8 hours in some cases!) but I'd like to try say, 1/2 hour exposures at dusk/dawn. Long exposure landscape photos can have a real haunting beauty to them because of the blurring and streaking of clouds and the light seems to take on different qualities too.

Some photographers use ND filters in daylight so that they can photograph waterfalls with slow shutter speeds or busy townscapes with exposures long enough to blur people so much that the streets seem empty.

Regards,

Ian

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
silvestrog Regular Member • Posts: 469
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

ianbramham wrote:

I received a new filter today in the post....it's a B+W 10 stop
neutral density filter in a 77mm thread to fit my Sigma 10-20 lens.

I bought it so I could try long exposure photography in daylight
conditions.

It's an expensive piece of glass at £56 from a web based company but
normal shops don't seem to stock this kind of thing and filterdepot's
price seemed competitive - the filter arrived quickly.

It seems well made and surprisingly heavy for it's size - as you can
see from the photos below it appears black rather than transparent
and you have to hold it up to very bright light before you can see
anything through it.

I went out at lunchtime in some bright sunshine for a walk with my
tripod to try it out and I was surprised at how easy my D40 was to
use with it on. The procedure I adopted was to set the camera up
normally without the filter screwed onto the lens but set in aperture
priority to the lens's smallest aperture which at it's 10mm setting
is f22 (set at f22 to maximaise shutter speed).....I took a few shots
until I was happy with exposure and composition then adjusted the
D40's controls to fully manual on the 'bulb' setting and screwed the
10 stop filter onto the front of the lens.

At this point it's impossible to see anything through the viewfinder.

All I did then was to roughly multiply the exposure from the test
shot by a factor of 10 to get an approximate idea of how long to
expose it on 'bulb'. After reviewing the first shot on the histogram
I adjusted the shutter speed slightly and took another shot which
then looked properly exposed on the histogram. All in all it was much
easier than I was expecting and the 10 stop rating seems accurate.

It was a windy day with quite a few clouds in the sky - as you can
see the effect of the filter is to blur the clouds and water. It also
has a warming effect when compared to the test shots taken without
the fiter.

The results are softer than I'm used to with this lens but it was so
windy out there that I'm not sure if this is because my tripod is not
sturdy enough or if it's because the photos are at f22. I suspect
it's the f stop but I don't object to the softness as I think it adds
to the slightly dreamy feel of the photos.

I'm really looking forward to giving the filter a proper trial of
landscape photos at dusk on the coast when I go on holiday to France
in a few weeks

What do you think?

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

60 second exposure at f22 and iso 200 at 10mm

16 seconds at f22, iso 200 and 10mm

Hi Ian, I think that this is a nice experiment to share: The effect of the filter is interesting especially on the second shot for the presence of the water whose movement gives, with the long exposure, a soft sensation. The performance of the lens, also at f22, looks good enough to me.
Best regards
Gianluca

TheronFamily Forum Pro • Posts: 19,983
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

While I can definitely see you getting excellent mileage from that filter Ian, I need to mention that this series needs a white point set and a midtone boost. They present themselves as rather flat.
Concur?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin
so many flowers, so little time sigh
the 'Art' of Aperture: a mini tutorial
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=23460691
http://www.rootminus1.com/freepics/thumbnails.php?album=68
http://www.rootminus1.com/freepics/index.php?cat=10032
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/theronfamily/

 TheronFamily's gear list:TheronFamily's gear list
Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM
lac111 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,490
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Sounds like this filter is similar to working with the Hoya R72 for IR, except for the whilte balance issues. I like these, they have an interesting soft effect almost "silky" if I can use that term even though there is no moving water involved. I don't think the wind had anything to do with the look of the buildings. ; ) I've never heard of this technique, so it's great to learn something new.
--
Lora

I'm not a newbie on Dpreview, I've been here since June 06. Due to some ridiculous password problem, I lost my posting history. Nice huh?

ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

silvestrog wrote:

Hi Ian, I think that this is a nice experiment to share: The effect
of the filter is interesting especially on the second shot for the
presence of the water whose movement gives, with the long exposure, a
soft sensation. The performance of the lens, also at f22, looks good
enough to me.
Best regards
Gianluca

Hi Gianluca!....I'm looking forward to giving this new filter a good try out on holiday when I'll have a bit more time to spare. We've got a house on the beach for a week on the Ile De Re in France so there should be plenty of opportunity.

Regards,

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

TheronFamily wrote:

While I can definitely see you getting excellent mileage from that
filter Ian, I need to mention that this series needs a white point
set and a midtone boost. They present themselves as rather flat.
Concur?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin
so many flowers, so little time sigh
the 'Art' of Aperture: a mini tutorial
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=23460691
http://www.rootminus1.com/freepics/thumbnails.php?album=68
http://www.rootminus1.com/freepics/index.php?cat=10032
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/theronfamily/

Thanks for the feedback Kevin....I know what you mean the white point and contrast. I actually started playing with contrast and sharpening but then decided to leave them alone for now as the slightly dreamy look to the images appealed to me. I'll see how they look to me in a week's time.

I'm looking forward to trying some proper coastal landscapes with this filter and at dusk I should be able to use something more in the f4 - f8 range where the lens is crisper.

Regards,

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

lac111 wrote:

Sounds like this filter is similar to working with the Hoya R72 for
IR, except for the whilte balance issues. I like these, they have an
interesting soft effect almost "silky" if I can use that term even
though there is no moving water involved. I don't think the wind had
anything to do with the look of the buildings. ; ) I've never heard
of this technique, so it's great to learn something new.
--
Lora
I'm not a newbie on Dpreview, I've been here since June 06. Due to
some ridiculous password problem, I lost my posting history. Nice huh?

Hi Lora!....'silky' is a good word for the effect that long exposures can give a photo. Those images by Kenna have it in abundance even though they are all in B&W. I think I'll have more fun with this flter than if I'd bought a new lens.

Regards,

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Thomas Comerford wrote:

ianbramham wrote:

It's an expensive piece of glass at £56 from a web based company but
normal shops don't seem to stock this kind of thing and filterdepot's
price seemed competitive - the filter arrived quickly.

Small world - I got mine recently, from the same place (and I've been
using it on the same lens)!

At this point it's impossible to see anything through the viewfinder.

If you can block out enough ambient light with your hands, your eyes
will adjust to the viewfinder. I'm tempted to try using a black cloth
over my head, like the early photographers!

All I did then was to roughly multiply the exposure from the test
shot by a factor of 10 to get an approximate idea of how long to
expose it on 'bulb'. After reviewing the first shot on the histogram
I adjusted the shutter speed slightly and took another shot which
then looked properly exposed on the histogram. All in all it was much
easier than I was expecting and the 10 stop rating seems accurate.

Another trick you can do is shoot at maximum ISO until you get the
framing/exposure you want, and the reduce the ISO to 200 and adjust
the shutter to maintain the same exposure.

I'm really looking forward to giving the filter a proper trial of
landscape photos at dusk on the coast when I go on holiday to France
in a few weeks

If you don't already have them I'd recommend getting a wireless
remote, and a hot-shot mounted bubble level. The exposures will get
very very long at dusk so you may need a stopwatch too.

What do you think?

Looks good so far!

Hi Thomas...what a coincidence that you've just got the same filter for the same lens from the same company!

What is the longest exposure that you've successfully managed so far?

Re your accessory suggestions I did a lot of photography last winter with my then new D40 so I got the ML-L3 remote trigger back then and before I went out at lunchtime I downloaded a stopwatch programme to my PDA phone....it was extremely useful.

Regards,

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
Chang108 Contributing Member • Posts: 721
BULB mode = 30 mins max

Ian, those are great photos you have. The max time on bulb mode is only 30 mins. If you need longer, then may need to do multiple 30mins exposure and stack them up in PP.

-- hide signature --

Chang

ianbramham
OP ianbramham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,353
Re: BULB mode = 30 mins max

Chang108 wrote:

Ian, those are great photos you have. The max time on bulb mode is
only 30 mins. If you need longer, then may need to do multiple 30mins
exposure and stack them up in PP.

Hi Chang!....thanks for the information on the 30 minute exposure limit on 'bulb' setting.

I'd really be interested in hearing from anybody who has tried exposures this long.

Ian
http://ianbramham.aminus3.com/
http://photo.net/photos/ian.bramham

 ianbramham's gear list:ianbramham's gear list
Nikon D800
ericfordh Senior Member • Posts: 1,419
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

Wow, 10 stops? That's hardcore. I can understand why it was expensive, B+W usually is, but they're high quality. The two images you posted are kind of neat but not as interesting as your typical work, the look is unusual with the clouds moving through the exposure and the super-smooth lake water. I've tried long daylight exposures too, but they didn't work out very well the way I did them. Still, I'd love to try it again, and 3 stops isn't enough to make it worthwhile. I look forward to seeing your future experiments with this.

Thomas Comerford Veteran Member • Posts: 9,745
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

ianbramham wrote:

What is the longest exposure that you've successfully managed so far?

I think the longest I've done so far (with the ND filter) is about 2 minutes.

-- hide signature --
SuperSwe Junior Member • Posts: 40
Re: 10 stop ND filter (2 pics with 10-20 lens)

My birthday is coming up. Think I have to buy the Sigma 10-20 for myself
If you like longexposure pictures then visit MubleyJoe’s on Flickr.
He really knows what to do with a Sigma 10-20.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mumbleyjoe/sets/72157600505269491/

-- hide signature --

Me, myself and I

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads