What % of wedding clients are sophisticated ?

Michael D Robinson

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enough to tell what good and artistic wedding photography is...The current trend i see is what I call the "screaming monkey" attempt at photojournalism where the bride is caught in a candid or posed to try to make her look like she is having a ball , but looks like a screaming monkey ? Are big city wed clients really more sophisticated that the country folk ? It seems to me, just like the

Jerry Springer and Roseann Barr society we seem to have become that I don't get as many clients as in the past that could tell what a good wed image is ?
 
It seems more applicable to ask, are wedding photographer elitists that would rather p!ss on their clients than cater to their desires.

I don’t shoot weddings but I’ve been to/in quite a lot. There seems to be the basic, traditional shoots then the less traditional shoots. Some people have very specific desires for their pictures some don’t know what they want except for “good pictures to have for a lifetime.” Some couldn’y give two bits, they just know they need to hire a photographer. None of them are wrong. Even if you personally despise them for their lack of knowledge about photography (keep humble in the thought that, of all the people that get their picture taken by your camera, I am sure that body of people has knowledge in other areas that would completely befuddle the likes of a simple photographer.)

Of all the weddings I’ve been a part of, most people like the results of their pictures, some don’t like the results. Some couldn’t care less other than to look at them every once in a while to see what their hair looked like. The one thing that everybody has a good remembrance of: the prick photographers that have an attitude that the wedding day was created for him to take pictures.

-Suntan
 
orrr. the rube like you who calls photographers "simple" ! I would assume that your the "total kiss ass" wed photographer who tries to make up with brown noseing what they lack in photographic skill....
 
No, I’m the hobbyist photographer with advanced degrees in thermodynamics and heat transfer.

I don’t shoot weddings because I can’t stand going to them and I’m not particularly fond of having to be nice to people I don’t know. However, I prefer to abstain from the activities instead of being a hypocrite by speaking badly of my customers when they are not around.

Anyway, I was not calling photographers “simple” but suggesting a mindset for the photographer to keep in their head whenever they start to feel superior because they happen to know what advantages choosing broad lighting vs short lighting will give in a certain situation.

In short, you may be the best photographer in your state, but you’re still just a photographer. Same as I am still just an engineer, even though I have created things that you rely on every day for your way of life.

-Suntan
 
what percentage of photographers are "sophisticated"?

how many brides appreciate photography as an art form enough to back this appreciation with dollars and have enough dollars to do so? Who knows but they are probably less than 50%

but what is art and what is not is in the eye of the checkbook holder

--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com
 
orrr. the rube like you who calls photographers "simple" ! I would
assume that your the "total kiss ass" wed photographer who tries to
make up with brown noseing what they lack in photographic skill....
I'll tell you what... your arrogance would prevent me from hiring you in a minute. Your recent thread contributions are nothing more than complaints and whining. Why don't you go out and take some pictures. Or if you're going to spend time on this forum, why not contribute in a positive way.

Oh, and if you're wondering why people aren't "sophisticated", it's probably because the people with true class would never hire anyone as arrogant and condescending as you.

gets off soapbox

Got out and shoot.
 
Most brides and grooms are not after works of art. Why should they be? And they certainly don't want this self important, pretentious and superior attitude displayed by some photographers and by the OP.

They want a wonderful, beautiful, happy record of a wonderful, beautiful, happy day. Taken by someone who is good at bringing out the very best in people, someone who will really enhance the day and who will make the whole process special.
 
Back in film days, most of them didn't know the difference in quality between a 35mm and a 645/67 format - and why should they? Comparing an 8x10 print side by side, the latter would still look better and only be appreciated to the trained eyes.

Personally, I never understood why photographers would invest that kind of money when the client/ audience doesn't see a difference.

I think photographers are out there to impress other photographers, which is fine if you're trying to grab the attention of an art director. But odds are, neither the groom or bride are ADs.
 
What does the cost and capability of the equipment used have to do with treating your clients like dirt?

-Suntan
 
Absolutely nothing.

But photographers tend to build a pedestal for themselves with big expensive bodies and the large lens. Most don't realize they're just tools, and that they themselves are just tools (some more so than others).
 
Touché

Some don’t even need expensive equipment to build that pedestal of theirs.

Have a good day.

-Suntan
 
Yes, and we can be sure that your (Suntan lines) pedestal is an old worn out washing machine....A percentage will pay for fine wedding photography.... In fact if you are good a number of like minded folk will hire you. ie, designers, other qualified photographers, engineers, artists etc...many of these my are my clients....
 
I’m sorry, I’m obviously not as sophisticated as you because very little in that post made any sense. I got that their was a really lame attempt to get a dig in on my screen name, and something about the cleanliness of my clothing… …then there was some aggrandizing about your own abilities. How does any of that follow in with the subject we were discussing, which was about certain photographers thinking their sh!t doesn’t stink and treating their customers like a horse’s a$$?

-Suntan
 
Yes, and we can be sure that your (Suntan lines) pedestal is an old
worn out washing machine....A percentage will pay for fine wedding
photography.... In fact if you are good a number of like minded folk
will hire you. ie, designers, other qualified photographers,
engineers, artists etc...many of these my are my clients....
You know, I was curious to see some images that you had posted on these forums to see the level of skill that we're talking about, but I can't seem to find any....

I checked your profile to see if you had a website and... oh yeah... no website either.

So I looked back through all of your posts to see that you seem to have a lot of vicious things to say to EVERY thread but seem to have nothing useful to contribute.

I find it hard to believe that someone who believes that their skills are so magnificent wouldn't be willing to share some pictures with us humble beings and show us what true photography really is.

So I'm left to assume that you don't own a camera since I fail to see any proof of it.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you were an overweight, middle-aged man who's never been married (or quickly divorced) because he has just soo much pent up rage.

Here's a hint.... shut up and leave these forums. If you'd like to help people improve their skills, post something useful.

For the others, sorry for the rant but this guy tweaks my nerves...

Here's some images that make me smile..... my D3's inspiration....





 
How does any of that follow in with the
subject we were discussing, which was about certain photographers
thinking their sh!t doesn’t stink and treating their customers like a
horse’s a$$?
Wait, what?

Who brought up "treating their customers like a horse’s a$$?"

You seem to have connected several considerations that don't necessarily
have an apparent relationship.

Why would having a client that is more "visually sophisticated" and one that is less

"visually sophisticated" imply ANY difference in the type of care, service, and grace they would receive in the services they commision?

I don't understand the connection. What am I missing?

V
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is taste, and sophistication...

Some time ago I did try Weddings... and some times it made me feel like crying like a little girl... Brides can easily turn from angels to devils...therefore the well known Bridezilla term....

Most 99.99% brides have at least 20 different Brides magazines, during the planning of their wedding, most have an idea of how they like to look like...on their pics...so before you do anthing fancy, or too unpleasant to anyones personal taste and sophistication...ask them to show you how they want to look...It wont take more than a minute before they have at least shown you 50 pages of a magazine and drove you insane, but yes, she will be pleased with results... i dont see any brown noseing on this practice, en client is satisfied, and will gladly pay, and why not maybe a tip? Un common BTW but can never stop trying!... OR... since you probabbly have both the tastefull fancy arty wedding photos, and the screaming monkey having a ball...show your client both options, and costumize... simple...no need to crack your head open... Just ask.
 
I don't understand the connection. What am I missing?
Well, to put it bluntly, I and (without speaking for others) possibly some others were discussing how this guy that started the thread treats potential customers like a horse’s a$$. I believe the terms were something along the lines that they want “Screaming Monkey” pictures, and that they are all a bunch of “Jerry Springers” and “Rosanne Barrs.”

Although he doesn’t seem to get it because he just keeps talking about how wonderful his photography is, like that makes up for being an arrogant a-hole. Which it doesn’t. Now if he is lucky, and he can find enough other arrogant a-holes that don’t mind his attitude and hire him anyway, he should be fine.

These kinds of threads come up a lot and it usually revolves around a photographer that thinks he is too good for everyone around him. What these photographers would do well to remember is that they are hired for their expertise, but they do not have cart blanch to do whatever they want. The client is still the one calling the shots whether they like the client’s taste or not.

-Suntan
 
I don't understand the connection. What am I missing?
Well, to put it bluntly, I and (without speaking for others) possibly
some others were discussing how this guy that started the thread
treats potential customers like a horse’s a$$.
It's very easy to read the thread and what was said, by whom, from the start.

You "Suntan" are the one that made the ASSUMPTION as to how this man treats his customers. There is NOTHING in that OP that indicates exactly how he interacts with customers. His OP is about trends he is seeing.
I believe the terms
were something along the lines that they want “Screaming Monkey”
pictures, and that they are all a bunch of “Jerry Springers” and
“Rosanne Barrs.”
Go back and look, this is NOT what he said. You've twisted it from a general comment about society to a specific judgement.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&message=28473453
Although he doesn’t seem to get it because he just keeps talking
about how wonderful his photography is,
Really? Where in the OP does he say that? Quote it please!
like that makes up for being
an arrogant a-hole.
Apparently you are mistaken here too. I don't see enough info on this thread to determine whether he is arrogant or an "a-hole".

What I DO see is someone that prefers a certain type of client/commission, and seeks to produce a certain style / quality of image. There is nothing wrong with being selective, or working with a specific style. Doing such is the mark of experienced, professional photographers.
Which it doesn’t. Now if he is lucky, and he can
find enough other arrogant a-holes that don’t mind his attitude and
hire him anyway, he should be fine.
Huh? Are you expecting him to take any job, regardless of budget, style sought, and compatibility with client/customer? The only reason I can see that anyone would do that is because they are hungry or inexperienced - most likely both.

The relationship with a customer/client is a mutual fit, either side has the choice and option to go forward or not. Both sides have choices. That is a good, healthy way of functioning.
These kinds of threads come up a lot and it usually revolves around a
photographer that thinks he is too good for everyone around him.
"usually"?

It seems you are making some sort of assumption, or coming into this with a bias.
What
these photographers would do well to remember is that they are hired
for their expertise,
"these"?

May I suggest you treat each interaction with each person as one on one, on it's own unique merits. Generalizing all photographers into the same ID does not provide any clear meaning with which to communicate.
but they do not have cart blanch to do whatever
they want. The client is still the one calling the shots whether they
like the client’s taste or not.
Let me explain something to you. There are generally three things a couple look for
in photography services. Not all value these with the same priority.

1) Price/Value
2) Emotional comfort
3) Style/product

For some price is the only consideration. That usually means lowest price, but not always. If price is the #1 proirity overshadowing all other considerations, one often finds the budget extremely low (often below the cost of doing business), and the couple have no understanding or sensitivity about all the subtle differences in both the manner that the photographer interacts and the style of photography which he/she has developed over the years. The are buying a gallon of gas, and it's all the same to them, so why pay a higher price. This does NOT mean I have to lower myself, by treating them poorly, but I DO have the option of either educating them, or passing on the commission.

I might pass for a number of reasons:
  • poor fit of my style to their needs/wants
  • their budget will not cover the costs/needs of my business model
  • I perceive the event/couple to be too much trouble (bridezilla/etc)
  • I decided to go hiking on that Saturday
As there are 3 basic considerations and literally thousands of subtle -subjective- nuances that each couple have in their own needs and identities . The interactions can and often are much more complex than what I described above. Often the couple can be very particular about style, yet they want to pay for it as a commodity (gas). Ideally a photographer has a business model, knows what he or she can provide. Knows when to say "NO", and also knows how to interact with the couple in a way that allows them respect - regardless of whether they are creative directors at xyz ad agency, or off the farm in the midwest.

It's a mutual interaction - both the client and the photographer make choices, with a similar (often collaborative) goal in mind.

V
 

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