Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

Started Jun 10, 2008 | Discussions
Sosumi Contributing Member • Posts: 559
Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the D80).

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important feature...

Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80).

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

I would agree on that one, often overlooked by many reviewers.

-- hide signature --

I am not the 'Ghost Hunter', nor am I the Irish actor in the 'Quiet Man'

gil Forum Pro • Posts: 16,802
DPR is looking for reviewers, any of you care to apply? :~)(nt)
-- hide signature --

**************
The JPG Warrior
Still 100% jpg and hand held,
No baits, calls and tricks but will use luck with the A700

 gil's gear list:gil's gear list
Panasonic FZ80/FZ82 Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony a77 II Sony a6600 Olympus E-M1 +4 more
RubberDials Senior Member • Posts: 1,294
Agreed, very slovenly

It just gets worse and worse with the A350 review. They should pull it and let me or you write it. Or DK.

tjman Forum Member • Posts: 95
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

One other main feature was somehow missed - the build it wireless flash!

Klipsen Veteran Member • Posts: 6,166
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in.

Maybe he never tried it with an external flash and so didn't bother to read that part of the manual. That's no excuse, only a possible explanation. Minolta was rather unique in including wireless flash control in even its cheapest models, and also in its most evolved film camera, the Alpha/Dynax/Maxxum 9. A built in flash (apparently) seems out of place in a decidedly pro camera, but only apparently, since it acts as a wireless master for compatible flashes; thus it is very much "in place".

By contrast, this passage is the first example I've ever seen of a reviewer not being "scared" by the Minolta hotshoe:

"On the top of the camera there's a Minolta-style hotshoe for adding a flashgun. Sony and several third-party manufacturers make use of this mount so it's no concern that it's not the more standard style used elsewhere".

As far as I recall, every review I've read before warns against it as a problem, although there's no electronic compatibility between any camera brands, so putting a Nikon flash atop a Canon camera will be of little use. Besides, Sony continues to make the adapters first made by Minolta, so Sony/Minolta flashes can be mounted in standard hotshoes, and flashes with standard hotshoes can be mounted on Sony cameras.

 Klipsen's gear list:Klipsen's gear list
Sony Alpha DSLR-A900 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony a6600 Sony 85mm F1.4 ZA Carl Zeiss Planar T* Sony 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* +17 more
Kiril Karaatanasov Senior Member • Posts: 2,204
Lots of "forgotten" things in A350 review

all that reviewers know and see about sony flash system is that it uses strange shoe.

This of course is bad! It is not Canon like. Should they ever care to actually put a flash it will occur to them the flash is not swinging back and forth or falling out of place.

They will likely note it is slightly superior in functionality as well but again that will only happen if reviewers actually use the flash system.

Did you notice anything about the fact A350 has THE BEST metering system out there? Going ahead of the Nikon D3?

Same goes for AF speed - never saw it tested on DPreview

Same goes for lazy eye issue (pre-falsh) - again all reviews miss this. Flash timing with pre-flash is very important, there is relatively easy and objective way to judge this i.e. below 50 ms is green, below 85ms is yellow; above 85mS is red

We also saw from alpha user reviews a lot of details for the liveview, its pitfalls and advantages. Do you see this in DPreview?

I believe commercial type "objective" reviews are always going to miss system specifics as they try to compare across brands.

....and reviewers that go across brands (like DPreview) are knowledgeable of only one or two brands in details (guess which these might be) so they cannot assess or praise advantages that they do not know of.

I believe these are deficiencies but they exist for objective reason. So I would not trust one review but read more before buying.

At the end it is bad for sony, they should have pushed to get A300 reviewed instead of the A350 to get the "Highly recommended" rating. Now the A350 review is going to slightly hurt their sales.

I believe if anyone ought to contest the review it is Sony's marketing and Sales, using stimulus(advertising) tactics and at least get DPreview to cover their two other entry models, plus assess the many advances in the cameras that were totally missed out.

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80).

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

 Kiril Karaatanasov's gear list:Kiril Karaatanasov's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony a7C
Richard Butler
Richard Butler dpreview Admin • Posts: 2,881
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80).

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

Yes, very witty.

Except it is mentioned in the review (specifically in the comparison table on page 22). It was also taken into account when giving the A350 a '9.0' rating for Features. But, you're right, it should be made more explicit that we'd considered it, so it's been added to the 'Pro' list in the conclusion.

Richard - DPReview

FrodeNilsen Regular Member • Posts: 253
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

R Butler wrote:

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80)

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

Yes, very witty.

Except it is mentioned in the review (specifically in the comparison
table on page 22). It was also taken into account when giving the
A350 a '9.0' rating for Features. But, you're right, it should be
made more explicit that we'd considered it, so it's been added to the
'Pro' list in the conclusion.

Richard - DPReview

I hope DPR is aware the design reasoning behind that flash shoe, and how litle damage is done if you drop the cam with flash on the concrete or somebody accidental hits that flash too hard?

It once saved my Dynax 9. The shoe on the flash broke and was cheaply replaced. Infact, I did the replacement myself. Had it been a standard ISO shoe both the body and the lens would possibly have taken a major hit. I rather take that broken shoe on the flash, than a broken camera and broken flash.

The plastic is in this case used intelligently. Other makers might design their flashes to break above the shoe in a similar manner, but I have never broken a Nikon or Canon flash, so I do not know.

What I do know is that if the flash is not designed to break anywhere if it takes a hit, it is inferior to the Minolta design, not superior.

Frode

Klipsen Veteran Member • Posts: 6,166
Re: Lots of "forgotten" things in A350 review

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

all that reviewers know and see about sony flash system is that it
uses strange shoe.

This of course is bad! It is not Canon like. Should they ever care to
actually put a flash it will occur to them the flash is not swinging
back and forth or falling out of place.

In all fairness it has to be said that this review includes the following passage:

"On the top of the camera there's a Minolta-style hotshoe for adding a flashgun. Sony and several third-party manufacturers make use of this mount so it's no concern that it's not the more standard style used elsewhere".

So while he does forget go mention its virtues, he doesn't regard it as a problem - like most other reviewers, who seem to forget that you would never buy a Canon or Nikon flash for your Sony camera, or even an old Minolta flash that isn't compatible with the electronics.

 Klipsen's gear list:Klipsen's gear list
Sony Alpha DSLR-A900 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony a6600 Sony 85mm F1.4 ZA Carl Zeiss Planar T* Sony 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* +17 more
nm66photog Contributing Member • Posts: 645
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

FrodeNilsen wrote:

R Butler wrote:

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80)

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

Yes, very witty.

Except it is mentioned in the review (specifically in the comparison
table on page 22). It was also taken into account when giving the
A350 a '9.0' rating for Features. But, you're right, it should be
made more explicit that we'd considered it, so it's been added to the
'Pro' list in the conclusion.

Richard - DPReview

I hope DPR is aware the design reasoning behind that flash shoe, and
how litle damage is done if you drop the cam with flash on the
concrete or somebody accidental hits that flash too hard?

It once saved my Dynax 9. The shoe on the flash broke and was
cheaply replaced. Infact, I did the replacement myself. Had it been
a standard ISO shoe both the body and the lens would possibly have
taken a major hit. I rather take that broken shoe on the flash, than
a broken camera and broken flash.

The plastic is in this case used intelligently. Other makers might
design their flashes to break above the shoe in a similar manner, but
I have never broken a Nikon or Canon flash, so I do not know.

What I do know is that if the flash is not designed to break anywhere
if it takes a hit, it is inferior to the Minolta design, not superior.

Frode,

My first Minolta with the new hot shoe was the Maxxum 9xi from 1992. At first I thought, "What was Minolta thinking?" Once I used it I knew, It's by far the very best hot shoe design. Not only for the reasons you mentioned above but also it's the easiest and quickest to use.

It would behoove every other camera maker to drop the shoe design they are using now and switch to the Minolta design.

Jerry

boels069 Contributing Member • Posts: 553
Re: Another

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80).

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

Read the manuals first, it's a useless feature.

Buit-in flash can't be use after wireless flash unless diasabled via menu settings.
You can't set flash parameters from within the camera.

 boels069's gear list:boels069's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L IS USM DxO Optics Pro Elite +2 more
Geir Eivind Mork Senior Member • Posts: 1,680
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

FrodeNilsen wrote:

I hope DPR is aware the design reasoning behind that flash shoe, and
how litle damage is done if you drop the cam with flash on the
concrete or somebody accidental hits that flash too hard?

That is my a100 with flash from about a meter onto floor. flash foot was equally broken. repairs are over 600 nok for flash foot in Norway, and I have yet to bother to get an estimate on the camera. Probably more than buying a second hand one.

My old Minolta 700si was unharmed when my 5400xi hit the ground with it. the flash foot was replaced for about 100 nok through ebay part.

So either the hvl-f56am has a stronger foot than the 5400xi, or the a100 has a weaker foot than the minolta 700si. or I was just unlucky. And because the foot is broken, the other hvl-f56am flash i had got its foot broken because of the less than perfect flash foot on the camera.

-- hide signature --

Past: 700si, Present: α100, Future: α700 - Equipment in profile

 Geir Eivind Mork's gear list:Geir Eivind Mork's gear list
Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sigma APO Macro 180mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS
Tommy_2 Contributing Member • Posts: 748
Oly's also have this feature :)

Tommy

Ari Aikomus
Ari Aikomus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,643
And also Pentax have this feature :-D

...Happy shootings all Sony (Konica Minolta) DSLR users !

Ari (ex-KM user)

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the D80)...

-- hide signature --

  • Ari Aikomus -

'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

 Ari Aikomus's gear list:Ari Aikomus's gear list
Sony a7R II Pentax K-1 Sony a5100 Panasonic GH5 Fujifilm X-A5
FrodeNilsen Regular Member • Posts: 253
Sad story

That looks like no kind of fun.

I payed 125NKr (about 15$ at the time) back then for a replacement flash foot, and did the work myself. Just four screws and unplug the old wire and plugin the new.

600NKr is 1/3 of the prize for a brand new flash.

As for the body, the A100 is sub $300 at KEH.com. If they charge that much for a little piece of plastic for the flash, I wonder what the body would be. A Norwegian technician would probably make about $60 or more an hour.

Is this what will happen if I drop my camera? Anyone seen broken flash foots like this on a body?

Frode

Kiril Karaatanasov Senior Member • Posts: 2,204
Re: Lots of "forgotten" things in A350 review

Thanks for noticing, my mistake I did not see the good way to put it.

I were tired of reading other reviewers banging how bad it is to go and buy shoe adapters.

I even wrote to couple of guys about the reasons for making the minolta shoe different and pointed to some reading material.

I believe the main concern with the flash system is studio photography where Sony (and Minolta before that) made life hard for people with cheap cameras. as pre-falsh cannot be turned off.

There was also a review stating exactly this - difficult for studio photography, which I believe is much fairer than banging the ISO hot shoe as superior flash technology.

 Kiril Karaatanasov's gear list:Kiril Karaatanasov's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony a7C
Cheng Bao Senior Member • Posts: 1,158
Re: Another "forgotten" thing in A350 review

maybe they don't expect that any entry-level users would use wireless flash function.

Kiril Karaatanasov Senior Member • Posts: 2,204
Re: Another

I use wireless flash and do not see a reason to call it useless.

You need to select wireless flash option and it works. With my cheap 36 this is a way to get light bounce off walls. This gives much more creativity.

Flash mounted on top and pointed ahead is useless in most situations, but ability to put flashes around the room and get good exposure I would call ingenious not useless.

boels069 wrote:

Sosumi wrote:

The A350 is the only one that has wireless flash built in. Not one
single Canon and only the more expensive Nikons have it (from the
D80).

I think it's rather slovenly of them to ignore such an important
feature...

Read the manuals first, it's a useless feature.
Buit-in flash can't be use after wireless flash unless diasabled via
menu settings.
You can't set flash parameters from within the camera.

 Kiril Karaatanasov's gear list:Kiril Karaatanasov's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony a7C
Veuliah Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Olympus as it, on both cameras, E-3 and E-520
-- hide signature --

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity

http://a-photo.uni.cc

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads