What is a good backup utility?

Started Feb 24, 2008 | Discussions
Vernon D Rainwater Forum Pro • Posts: 14,530
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

blackhawk13 wrote:

Have you tried to use (or used) it to Backup selected Folders and Files like Ben was wanting to do.
Same question for ANYONE that uses Acronis 11.
--
Vernon...

OP Ben_Egbert Forum Pro • Posts: 20,228
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

Ben

Ben, your comments and experience so far makes me even more thankful
that I can continue, and have continued to use Norton Ghost 2003.
The manual for it is also rather large. When first getting it, I
tested all functions that I contemplated using and found a few issues
and notified Symantec.
The features I needed and use are in use now for over 4 years and has
worked perfectly and is applicable to only around 5 to 10 % of the
total volume of the Manual
Also, your comments makes me think that I should download and do an
actual trial "Test Drive" of Acronis 11 and see if I can identify the
parts that would be usable for the "average user" along with any
issues that may be important.
Over the many years, I have done "shake downs" on many software
packages especially since I was responsible for Systems Design,
Programming, Testing, Implementation with the users, etc; for
Computerized applications for many years when I was in "Corporation
Employment for over 25 years" that doing so is not a "big deal (or
chore) for me to do. Most of the time, it actually is fun for me.
--
Vernon...

It looks to me like "try and decide" (which sounds like a learning entry point to me) is not that at all, but a serious step with no easy recovery. So I advise to stay away from that. I did not see any other steps that I wanted to take for a first try out of the system.

The reason I had to unload twice is because I had not fully exited try an decide when I did the uninstall. It only showed up however when I rebooted.

It seems to me like a proper uninstall would also undo the hidden partition since it is useless after Acronis is gone. Or at least they should include steps to undo that before it exits.

This was a trial program, what happens if after 15 days you don't want it? Seems odd it would make permenent changes to your system of this nature and just leave them behind.

Do you remember when you had Dos, Viscalc and your budget spreadsheet all on one floppy disk? Single sided at that. Those were the good old days. I never adapted to the world of hard drives and folders and paths very well. Just slip in the floppy, and it boots, loads Visicalc and your program. No mystery.

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devnull Contributing Member • Posts: 811
Some ideeas

I've used Allwaysync. Google for it Not very bad, you define a job and either program it at certain hours or run it manually.

There are lots of other free, good, simple options. You'll have to search, though. I think I remember Robocopy, but I am not sure

Good luck!

d/n

rkhpedersen Contributing Member • Posts: 846
A better solution

The problem with scheduled backup is that when something breaks down you will loose something. Worst case 1 week of work if you schedule weekly backups. A better solution is to use some of the new instant backup solutions.

With instant backup the backup software monitors the folders you have decided on (in fact it's Windows that does it already). When a new file is created or changed the backup software copies it to your backup device (another PC, external hard drive etc.) If you backup device is not online the files are put on a list and copied when the device comes online.

This means you can forget about the backup completely. The backup device contains a true accessible copy of your files. Some of the programs can even keep a predetermined number of version of each file if you have a need for that.

Check out this list of four instant backup programs:

http://www.thebigmind.org/instant_backup.html

blackhawk13 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,742
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

Vernon D Rainwater wrote:

blackhawk13 wrote:

Have you tried to use (or used) it to Backup selected Folders and
Files like Ben was wanting to do.
Same question for ANYONE that uses Acronis 11.
--
Vernon...

-- hide signature --

I saw some odd behavior, bad actually, real, real, real bad, like lost data bad, when I was using the secret spot feature. My system has some many HDs that have changed in size and in OS loads that the drive letters seem to shuffle like cards!

Acronis got confused, but like most backup utilities, I don't trust it to handle data folders, be it my fault or Acronis's, lost image data is still lost!

One reason I put Acronis on it's own IDE HD with it's own clones OS (which it cloned) was to keep it from changing drive letters and to not have to do it's weird reboot shadow copy voodoo dance. It copies from drive A to Drive B, but the Acronis app is on Drive C. Since it's on a IDE post, that frees up all six of my Intel SATA controller ports, which alarmingly, I use all of!

Used like this Acronis fulfills its prime function, and why I bought it; it provides a 100% redundant OS drive. I can rebuild my entire OD disc in less than 15 minutes to a fully functional, loaded, and configured OS. Minty fresh, clean, pure, with none of the days worth of cursing! I don't care if it crashes, and I play in the registry constantly which is fun. It frees me to easily try and optimize it's RAID configuration as well as far as best strip size, number of discs, and which port combo works best on this controller.

When Acronis is on a HD that's not part of those being cloned, it makes a perfect, carbon copy, that is bootable, with no tally marks on it's own left on the copies.
Perfection! That's why I love this app!

-tyrants and cowards hide behind censorship-

GaryDeM Veteran Member • Posts: 6,297
Re: What is a good backup utility?

my experience with acronis-

a zillion people on these forums like/love acronis backup. last fall i tried to put it on the pc, it installed fine but would not backup. the acronis engineers spent 3 weeks trying to get it to run, and that includes techs supervisory techs and management techs. they were on the phone with me every day. they remote operated my pc upwards of 6hrs a day 7 days a week. they ran every test on my pc they could come up with, the pc passed them all. it never did run. finally they told me they could not get their product to work on my pc, and gave me my money back. they mentioned that my pc is not the only 1 they could not get their product to run on. i am currently running norton save and restore which works fine.

OP Ben_Egbert Forum Pro • Posts: 20,228
Re: What is a good backup utility?

GaryDeM wrote:

my experience with acronis-

a zillion people on these forums like/love acronis backup. last fall
i tried to put it on the pc, it installed fine but would not backup.
the acronis engineers spent 3 weeks trying to get it to run, and that
includes techs supervisory techs and management techs. they were on
the phone with me every day. they remote operated my pc upwards of
6hrs a day 7 days a week. they ran every test on my pc they could
come up with, the pc passed them all. it never did run. finally they
told me they could not get their product to work on my pc, and gave
me my money back. they mentioned that my pc is not the only 1 they
could not get their product to run on. i am currently running norton
save and restore which works fine.

Norton Save and Restore was preloaded on my Dell. But it did backs up in compressed format of some sort. Thats a no-no.

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GaryDeM Veteran Member • Posts: 6,297
Re: What is a good backup utility?

why would compressed format be a nono? it does that in order to save space on your hard drv.

save and restore can also restore an individual file or folder as well as the whole drv. if you think a folder is corrupted or missing or deleted just have s&r rstore that item.

i have never rpt nevr felt the need to look at the resore file though it is possible, just go through the s&r software. if i thought that the main file was bad i would not look at, i would restore it. i am speaking of the c drv only. i use another backup system for the rest of my files. described below.

i have 4 ext usb hdr drvs. 2 of which i use for photography only. 1 is the primary and 1 is the backup. my current working pics are on the pc's c drv, once i am done with them i move them to the k drv(primary photo).

when i backup the primary, every 2 weeks, i simply delete the backup(drive L) and right click and drag the 1 and only folder in the primary drv to the backup and select copy here. for my 100gb primary drv, the copy takes about 2 1/2 hrs. i do that when i am doing some thing else. when the backup is being made i have no backup that is why i have 3rd copy of the photo drv on a 3rd hrd drv(drive N), which i also right click and drag immediately after the first backup.

there is no software involved i simply use windows xp pro sp2's right click and drag feature. i do backup my c drv every saturday morning at 2am automatically with Norton save and restore, but i do not use it for the other backup process that is all right click and drag. it works fine and with no other software. i do right click and drag certain folders from my c drv to my k drv, these are for backup purposes.

1 item about using software to make a backup, that uses incremental backups after the first one is that the backup will grow and grow and grow because you are always adding to the the backup never replacing it. in time it will be much larger than the item you are trying to backup. the only alternative is to wipe the backup out and startover. with my right click and drag system the backup is exactly the same size as the original.

my 4 ext hrd drvs are a 300gb, a trio of 500gb.

OutdoorArt Regular Member • Posts: 443
Re: right click and drag

What is special about the "right click and drag" versus the standard "left click and drag"?

I'd also be grateful if anyone can tell me what happens with activation (especially windows and photoshop) when cloning a disk with acronis tru image. For example, if I clone my OS disk, try out the clone to see if it works, then swap the original disk back in, do I have to deactivate and activate with every HD swap?

Thanks.
--
Arthur

http://www.arthurmarshall.ca

OP Ben_Egbert Forum Pro • Posts: 20,228
Re: right click and drag

OutdoorArt wrote:

What is special about the "right click and drag" versus the standard
"left click and drag"?

I'd also be grateful if anyone can tell me what happens with
activation (especially windows and photoshop) when cloning a disk
with acronis tru image. For example, if I clone my OS disk, try out
the clone to see if it works, then swap the original disk back in, do
I have to deactivate and activate with every HD swap?

Good question, and thats the toughest thing to get running on a new computer, Photoshop and all the plug-ins. Email is also pretty bad. The OS is a piece of cake by comparison.

I spent a couple of days with Breeze, Qimage, PK sharpener, Epson drivers, finding my email and restoring my favorites. Took a half hour just to figure out where in IE you had to go to make your favorites always appear on the left side. Kept getting Google favorites. You leanr this stuff and forget it until the next upload.

Thanks.
--
Arthur

http://www.arthurmarshall.ca

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OP Ben_Egbert Forum Pro • Posts: 20,228
Re: What is a good backup utility?

GaryDeM wrote:

why would compressed format be a nono? it does that in order to save
space on your hard drv.

Memory is cheap, a 500GB external HD is about the same as a high end 8GB CF card. If I need an image, I want to be able to browse to it. I won't have a clue where it is, what the name is etc. I usually look for it with Breeze browser which can see raw files. My images are all named by date, so I can usually get close, but need to see it to pick out the right one.

99% of my back up will be images. By the second month, these are no longer back ups, but primary.

Here is how I work. I save this months and last months raws on my primary drive. Each week I back them up to an external drive. Each month I write them to a DVD and erase the prior month from my primary drive. This keeps my primary drive fairly clean. This also means the image on my external is my primary image. Thats why I don't want it compressed.

So my primary drive never has more than two months worth of raw. But my external will have all of them. If I need an old image, I get it from the external, which is much faster than finding the DVD and loading from there.

When the external is full, I Will get another external.

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OP Ben_Egbert Forum Pro • Posts: 20,228
Trying second copy today

This one looks promising.

It has a neat how to use it right on the web page before you donwload and I was able to see that I liked the user interface from that. The price is $29.95, so no problem, so I downloaded the trial version.

It was not hard to set up a back-up of my budget folder just the way I wanted them. The only problem is I keep my budget on my desktop. Not sure how to back up my desktop, or if I want to. I may move my budget back into my budget folder. I was surprised to find out the budget did not exist on my budget folder. Guess I don't understand how desktop works.

I have it set to back up files whenever thay are changed rather than weekly and to syncronize. I also allowed it to save old files to another folder for now. I normally don't want old stuff, because it is just more junk to clean out later. But I can always just delete the folder periodically.

I will try this for a while and see how it works.

One quirk I get is when I open a file I get a sound messege saying "file is in use? Whats that all about?

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Vernon D Rainwater Forum Pro • Posts: 14,530
Ben, What is the Name of the 2nd copy -- Re: Trying second copy today

Ben_Egbert wrote:

This one looks promising.

It has a neat how to use it right on the web page before you donwload
and I was able to see that I liked the user interface from that. The
price is $29.95, so no problem, so I downloaded the trial version.

It was not hard to set up a back-up of my budget folder just the way
I wanted them. The only problem is I keep my budget on my desktop.
Not sure how to back up my desktop, or if I want to. I may move my
budget back into my budget folder. I was surprised to find out the
budget did not exist on my budget folder. Guess I don't understand
how desktop works.

I have it set to back up files whenever thay are changed rather than
weekly and to syncronize. I also allowed it to save old files to
another folder for now. I normally don't want old stuff, because it
is just more junk to clean out later. But I can always just delete
the folder periodically.

I will try this for a while and see how it works.

One quirk I get is when I open a file I get a sound messege saying
"file is in use? Whats that all about?
--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

There have been so many different Backup related titles that I don't seem to know what you are referring to as "Trying the Second Copy".
--
Vernon...

Guy Scharf Contributing Member • Posts: 895
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

Vernon,

Have you tried to use (or used) it to Backup selected Folders and
Files like Ben was wanting to do.
Same question for ANYONE that uses Acronis 11.

I have tried selective file and folder backup with Acronis 10. Acronis was not reliable and would frequently fail. Their tech support seemed to give up on me and not be interested in repeated problem reports.

Acronis offers the ability to restore an image to a different location, essentially a file-by-file restore. I tried that with Acronis 11 and 10. Both failed about 1/3 of the way through a 25 GB disk, pretty much locking up the system when it failed due to resource exhaustion (I don't know what kind of resource--it wasn't memory).

I find Acronis excellent for imaging drives and restoring them and for cloning drives. You can mount an image and assign it a drive letter, allowing you complete access to everything in the backup. That works well, and I was able to copy an entire 25 GB volume from a mounted image without any problems.

For file and folder backup, I use SyncBack SE, which is excellent for that purpose.

If you have a huge volume filled with images, such as my 500 GB drive, file-by-file backup with SyncBackSE is the way to go as it copies only changed files. An Acronis image backup would reread everything on the disk and create an unweildy and huge image file.

Guy

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Guy Scharf Contributing Member • Posts: 895
SyncBack SE

Ben,

Second Copy is a good product and I have used it in the past.

I prefer SyncBack SE from http://www.2brightsparks.com . I found it gave me some needed flexibility in working with external USB and eSATA drives which were sometimes connected and sometimes not, with consequently different drive letters each time I used them. SyncBack SE allowed me to refer to volumes by their labels rather than by their drive letters, so I no longer have to care about what drive letter Windows assigns when a disk is connected.

Guy

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Vernon D Rainwater Forum Pro • Posts: 14,530
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

Guy Scharf wrote:
Vernon,

Have you tried to use (or used) it to Backup selected Folders and
Files like Ben was wanting to do.
Same question for ANYONE that uses Acronis 11.

I have tried selective file and folder backup with Acronis 10.
Acronis was not reliable and would frequently fail. Their tech
support seemed to give up on me and not be interested in repeated
problem reports.

Acronis offers the ability to restore an image to a different
location, essentially a file-by-file restore. I tried that with
Acronis 11 and 10. Both failed about 1/3 of the way through a 25 GB
disk, pretty much locking up the system when it failed due to
resource exhaustion (I don't know what kind of resource--it wasn't
memory).

I find Acronis excellent for imaging drives and restoring them and
for cloning drives. You can mount an image and assign it a drive
letter, allowing you complete access to everything in the backup.
That works well, and I was able to copy an entire 25 GB volume from a
mounted image without any problems.

For file and folder backup, I use SyncBack SE, which is excellent for
that purpose.

If you have a huge volume filled with images, such as my 500 GB
drive, file-by-file backup with SyncBackSE is the way to go as it
copies only changed files. An Acronis image backup would reread
everything on the disk and create an unweildy and huge image file.

Guy

I appreciate all the replies to my inquiry. I want to be Certain that I understand the various comments correctly -- so:
May I ask (and to verify) if I understand properly.
1) The "Folder and File" backup feature has NOT been reliable.

Does this feature HAVE to use an Acronis Created Partition (as Discussed in one of Ben's post). This (as far as I am concerned) regarding creating a Partition seems VERY unusual for ANY program other than those for initially preparing a Hard Drive for use.
2) Cloning the complete Partition C: to another hard drive works correct.

Some comments were regarding using EIDE as the (TO) drive, Does it also work properly when using SATA as the (TO) drive.

3) Does Acronis handle Backing up the C: Partition as a backup to an IMAGE file? (This is definitely different from Cloning a Partition)

If it works properly, does it work when using either EIDE or SATA Hard Drives.
Thanks for your help and clarification for me.
--
Vernon...

vpeters Forum Member • Posts: 97
Re: SyncBack SE

Ben:

I told you about SyncBack two days ago. Have you checked it out yet? It will do exactly what you want; I do the same thing. I don't even use the high end version, I use the freeware simple version and it works perfectly. Simply copies files that have been changed from designated folders and leaves the unchanged ones alone. Doesn't use compressed or proprietary formats. Maintains existing folder structures. Files are accessible by any program, doesn't require use of Syncback to access a file. Costs nothing. What else could you want? Check it out. You'll be pleased.

Victor
--
vpeters

Guy Scharf Contributing Member • Posts: 895
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

Vernon D Rainwater wrote:

I appreciate all the replies to my inquiry. I want to be Certain
that I understand the various comments correctly -- so:
May I ask (and to verify) if I understand properly.
1) The "Folder and File" backup feature has NOT been reliable.

Not for me, with Acronis 10. I suppose it works for most people or the feature wouldn't be there. I've had enough problems that I never use file backup feature. YMMV.

Does this feature HAVE to use an Acronis Created Partition (as
Discussed in one of Ben's post). This (as far as I am concerned)
regarding creating a Partition seems VERY unusual for ANY program
other than those for initially preparing a Hard Drive for use.

No. I have never used an Acronis Created Partition (ACP). An ACP is effectively a hidden partition for your backups. "Hidden" in the sense you can't access it normally from Windows. So that provides a slight degree of extra protection from someone deleting your files. I've never thought it provided me with any benefits and have never even been tempted to create one.

2) Cloning the complete Partition C: to another hard drive works
correct.
Some comments were regarding using EIDE as the (TO) drive, Does
it also work properly when using SATA as the (TO) drive.

Mostly I create images (to .tib files) and restore them rather than using the direct clone process. I have restored using both the Acronis Windows program and the Acronis Rescue CD--a bootable CD. Restore works perfectly to SATA drives. I imagine cloning would work too, but I can't remember whether I have ever cloned to a SATA drive. The two times I tried cloning, it was to a PATA drive.

3) Does Acronis handle Backing up the C: Partition as a backup to an
IMAGE file? (This is definitely different from Cloning a
Partition)
If it works properly, does it work when using either EIDE or
SATA Hard Drives.

I think you are asking whether you can back up the C: drive as a partition image? Definitely Yes, I do that all the time. Both EIDE and SATA work fine. I've never noticed any difference between EIDE (aka PATA) and SATA in how Acronis works.

Guy

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Vernon D Rainwater Forum Pro • Posts: 14,530
Re: Recovering from Acronis now

Guy Scharf wrote:

Vernon D Rainwater wrote:

I appreciate all the replies to my inquiry. I want to be Certain
that I understand the various comments correctly -- so:
May I ask (and to verify) if I understand properly.
1) The "Folder and File" backup feature has NOT been reliable.

Not for me, with Acronis 10. I suppose it works for most people or
the feature wouldn't be there. I've had enough problems that I never
use file backup feature. YMMV.

Does this feature HAVE to use an Acronis Created Partition (as
Discussed in one of Ben's post). This (as far as I am concerned)
regarding creating a Partition seems VERY unusual for ANY program
other than those for initially preparing a Hard Drive for use.

No. I have never used an Acronis Created Partition (ACP). An ACP is
effectively a hidden partition for your backups. "Hidden" in the
sense you can't access it normally from Windows. So that provides a
slight degree of extra protection from someone deleting your files.
I've never thought it provided me with any benefits and have never
even been tempted to create one.

2) Cloning the complete Partition C: to another hard drive works
correct.
Some comments were regarding using EIDE as the (TO) drive, Does
it also work properly when using SATA as the (TO) drive.

Mostly I create images (to .tib files) and restore them rather than
using the direct clone process.

The reason I was not certain was that your previous post referred BOTh to "imaging drives and restoring them and for cloning drives."
*****

"I find Acronis excellent for imaging drives and restoring them and for cloning drives."
*****

I use Ghost 2003 and have used Clone (just to test the function) but prefer to (and always use) the DRIVE Backup to Image File(s) which appears to have less restrictions, and versatility and does not require a complete Drive (or Partition) to be dedicated for the normal backup Process.

I can use any Partition on any drive (BOX) for the TO drive. I like to use different physical Hard Drives for different backups which adds some versatility in case of a Hard Drive disaster.

I use both internal and external EIDE drives and internal SATA since I (so far) don't have external SATA but I do have both in Removable Drive units which operate as an internals but are removable.
Thanks for the clarification.....

I have restored using both the
Acronis Windows program and the Acronis Rescue CD--a bootable CD.
Restore works perfectly to SATA drives. I imagine cloning would work
too, but I can't remember whether I have ever cloned to a SATA drive.
The two times I tried cloning, it was to a PATA drive.

3) Does Acronis handle Backing up the C: Partition as a backup to an
IMAGE file? (This is definitely different from Cloning a
Partition)
If it works properly, does it work when using either EIDE or
SATA Hard Drives.

I think you are asking whether you can back up the C: drive as a
partition image? Definitely Yes, I do that all the time. Both EIDE
and SATA work fine. I've never noticed any difference between EIDE
(aka PATA) and SATA in how Acronis works.

See above --- I prefer to backup to image file(s).

Guy, many thanks for the clarification (for me) and the additional information.

Even though I do NOT presently use Acronis, It appears that I need to check the Folder and File Backup details to see if I can determine what is causing the above mentioned issues.

Guy

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Vernon...

OP Ben_Egbert Forum Pro • Posts: 20,228
Re: Ben, What is the Name of the 2nd copy -- Re: Trying second copy today

Vernon D Rainwater wrote:

Ben_Egbert wrote:

This one looks promising.

It has a neat how to use it right on the web page before you donwload
and I was able to see that I liked the user interface from that. The
price is $29.95, so no problem, so I downloaded the trial version.

It was not hard to set up a back-up of my budget folder just the way
I wanted them. The only problem is I keep my budget on my desktop.
Not sure how to back up my desktop, or if I want to. I may move my
budget back into my budget folder. I was surprised to find out the
budget did not exist on my budget folder. Guess I don't understand
how desktop works.

I have it set to back up files whenever thay are changed rather than
weekly and to syncronize. I also allowed it to save old files to
another folder for now. I normally don't want old stuff, because it
is just more junk to clean out later. But I can always just delete
the folder periodically.

I will try this for a while and see how it works.

One quirk I get is when I open a file I get a sound messege saying
"file is in use? Whats that all about?
--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

There have been so many different Backup related titles that I don't
seem to know what you are referring to as "Trying the Second Copy".
--
Vernon...

Thats the name "second copy". It seems to have a glitch, or I do. It won't back up my budget spreadsheet because it says its in use.

This could be because it has links. But non of the links are open. I also removed it from my desktop. So that should not be the reason it shows file in use.

I like it, of I can solve this issue. It does not do this with other spreadsheets I have tried, even another one that was on the desktop.

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