A900 Speculation

Started Jan 6, 2008 | Discussions
multiferroic Regular Member • Posts: 163
A900 Speculation

Hi,

in the same Chinese forum where the A200 was being discussed, someone posted a (maybe wishful) ad for the A900.

I don't know what to make of it, 21.42 MP? If I remember DK's writing correctly, it should be sub-20 MP (14 or 18?).

edit: grammar

OP multiferroic Regular Member • Posts: 163
Link to the forum

I forgot to put the link to the forum:
http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=470202&pagenumber=1

No direct linking... Scroll down to the end of the first page

PhotoTraveler Forum Pro • Posts: 11,700
Re: A900 Speculation

DK has never truly known, but we have had some people who had some solid info tell us 20+ for a long time. To date, the figure that sounded the most sound was 24MP if not that, something in the 20 to 24 range. I don't think there has ever been anything that hinted at anything in the teens, just people's wishing. And a lot of fuel for such ideas after Nikon brought the D3, which does not use a Sony designed sensor.

Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
Never mind the pixel count.

WHERE IIIIS IIIIT?! And will it come in pink? (Just joking about the last part).

I think that most Sony users would be quite correct to be relived if the A900 comes along at all. Many have more faith in the mythical Canon 3D finally arriving at PMA.

I think that with such an idea a genuine possibility, any FF Sony will 'need' at least 16MP uninterpolated or amazing advances in noise and DR at a lower count. Otherwise, ANY 5D replacement (be it '5DII' '7D' or '3D') will stomp it into the dust as soon as it's born. It ain't cool these days to have Canon stomp on anything bearing in mind they are themselves being pretty convincingly 'stomped' by Nikon.

A D3x and/or D300x would be pretty hard to beat unless the rest decide to start making some genuine improvements to something OTHER than MP count.

AF, speed, interface, price etc are all important. We have plenty of MP. There is always 'progress' in MP. However is it really 'progress'?
We don't need no more steenkin MP.

Sony should work on all the other key features that remain virtually stagnant at any given price-point outside Nikon - who still seem able to make leaps and bounds in terms of performance/value at a given price-point.

Sony are in a position of literally having to come from nowhere in any segment except consumer. And at the 'high-end' it's impossible to see how they could be at all attractive without unleashing a LOAD of lenses, and an unbelievably brilliant machine at a v low price.
Their first effort isn't going to cut it if MP is all it has to offer.

High end users don't care v much about AS either. They are happy with the IS/VR lenses they already own...

I suspect that this high end model from Sony will be THEIR high end, but v middle of the road compared to the real high-end DSLRs from Canon/Nikon. We shall see if it even materialises at all. Will be hard to take seriously if it doesn't show by PMA. It's already a bit of a joke imho. Sony's vapourware tactics may end up backfiring bigtime. All eyes are on what they claim they've got, but they won't lay the cards on the table.

As it stands, I'd be just as unsurprised to see nothing from Sony as I would a mid-range camera hyped as high-end. If they produce something that is even vaguely capable of competing with the 1DsIII, D3, or even the 1DII I'll be surprised.

If Sony finally do anything at all, I expect it'll be something v much like a 5D with AS. NB the 5D is now 3yo and about to be replaced...

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If we do it right the first time around, how will we sell the upgrade?!
Keep photography wild.

Where is that Sony 'flagship' anyway? And more importantly, will it come in pink?! Lol.

PhotoTraveler Forum Pro • Posts: 11,700
Re: Never mind the pixel count.

I think your off on a few things.

MP do matter to some. That's why the Canon 1Ds line exist. It was a very expected camera with it's current version. You can be pretty sure that was the model Sony is gunning for. Sony has very little market for a Sports Shooter body like the 1D or D3. Sony doesn't have pro's and they don't have a full line of lenses for those folks.

But what they do have is a window for people who just want/need pixels. And that is where those ZA lenses come into play. They have the 135 and 85 now, the 24-70 and 16-35 are coming, and then the 2 wide primes they showed. Those kind of lenses aren't the kind of stuff targeted at people who buy D3 or 1D . Sure they showed a mockup of a 2.8/400, but that looks to be far off

There is a market for 1Ds competition. The people who buy such bodies are more often independent types, not media types using Pool cameras. So going Sony is more of an option. They are more of the Michael Richmann types. Go for the tool for the job, not the tool that you and all your co-workers are told to use.

Another part of it is Sony probably knew what was coming with the D3. Nikon probably made it clear to the Sony Sensor folks that they were not interested in a medium pixel count sensor. But a mega high pixel body (D3X) would be needing such a sensor to give Nikon something to take on the 1Ds. So Sony's sensor side would go making such a camera.

I don't think anyone should expect a D3 or 1D type camera. I think it will be something more like a cross of a Canon 5D and 1Ds. A camera for landscapers or even Medium Formaters who want Zeiss primes but want the compact size the 1Ds doesn't offer and a build quality and pixel count the 5D and it's replacement don't. With a high pixel count body in a 5DII size and cost. Sony has in one shot out gunned both the 5DII and 1DsIII. Assuming the 5DII is around 16MP as most expect.

Cameras like the D3 have that market locked right now, Sony would not be able to compete with that at this time. Until a few years passes and they have the full line of G lenses back and a pro support system in place.

I also only give about a 50/50 shot of it being announced at PMA. We know it exist, we have seen the mockups, we have heard people are in the field testing it. What might increase it's odds for PMA is seeing how the A200 is getting announced at CES (actually it's getting announced sunday night). Unless Sony has a A500 for PMA, they might be clearing the road for the A900. They would be wise to get it out now, before Nikon announces a D3X and the 1DsIII is just coming out. Sony could re-route a lot of 1Ds sales if they announce the body now before to many folks have ordered there 1DsIII, especially at 1/2 the price, more pixels, smaller size and some new Ziess glass. Still, I'm thinking it will be more of an updated teaser.

Ralf B
Ralf B Veteran Member • Posts: 8,717
The 21.42 MP add was a fake, already discussed in

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=26278195

The fake was released in a spanish forum (or fan club) on what turned out to be the spanish version of "April Fools day". Now that China, unaware of such traditions, is picking it up again, also this forum is bound to engage in yet another A 900 speculation or "How many MPs" debate thread?

4 weeks to PMA - now that is a fact.

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Ralf

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Sony Alpha DSLR-A900 Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony SLT-A55 Sony Alpha a99 Sony 70-400mm F4-5.6 G SSM +14 more
SteveGJ Senior Member • Posts: 1,422
Re: Never mind the pixel count.

I think it's a bit unfair to call the"pro spec" Sony as vapourware as, unless I'm much mistaken, when it was "previewed" - or rather mocked-up at PMA it was always said to be something that wouldn't appear until 2008. I think the A700 was meant to be an autumn 2007 release (which is pretty well what it just about managed). I'd be very surprise if there weren't at least working prototypes/pre-production cameras in the hands of selected journalists at PMA time (plus a new low-end model and, just maybe, one that sits between that and the A700).

Anyway, back the the "pro-spec". I would indeed expect a camera aimed more at the EOS 5D market area than something that challenges the D3 or EOS-1D head on. It would take an awful long time before Sony could get there if for no other reason than the lens range has got gaping holes in it for the likes of sports journalists (even if Sony did go around investing in monsters like 500m f4s then just who would buy them?). However, a fairly high megapixel FF (or nearly so) camera could be used by serious amateurs and many sorts of professional users. I don't think a camera with a sensor in the 18-21 megapixel range is beyond the bounds of possibility if it is truly FF (very likely it will be scaled down a little). The high megapixel count FF (or near FF) market is hardly well served at the moment. I think an increase of at least 50% on the current APS-C level (so 18MP or above) will be welcomed for those into landscape, architectural, fashion and other photography where A3+ printing is often desirable. Superfast long lenses are likely to be less of a requirement for these type of photgraphers.

There is also an interesting point over whether the current range of Sony lenses, even at the top end, will work well on FF. The construction of digital sensors is such that edge resolution can suffer without appropriate lens designs. A tru high-resolution FF sensor could expose such limitations.

plevyadophy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,258
Re: Never mind the pixel count.

PhotoTraveler wrote:

I think your off on a few things.

MP do matter to some. That's why the Canon 1Ds line exist. It was a
very expected camera with it's current version. You can be pretty
sure that was the model Sony is gunning for. Sony has very little
market for a Sports Shooter body like the 1D or D3. Sony doesn't
have pro's and they don't have a full line of lenses for those folks.

But what they do have is a window for people who just want/need
pixels. And that is where those ZA lenses come into play. They have
the 135 and 85 now, the 24-70 and 16-35 are coming, and then the 2
wide primes they showed. Those kind of lenses aren't the kind of
stuff targeted at people who buy D3 or 1D . Sure they showed a
mockup of a 2.8/400, but that looks to be far off

There is a market for 1Ds competition. The people who buy such bodies
are more often independent types, not media types using Pool cameras.
So going Sony is more of an option. They are more of the Michael
Richmann types. Go for the tool for the job, not the tool that you
and all your co-workers are told to use.

Another part of it is Sony probably knew what was coming with the D3.
Nikon probably made it clear to the Sony Sensor folks that they were
not interested in a medium pixel count sensor. But a mega high pixel
body (D3X) would be needing such a sensor to give Nikon something to
take on the 1Ds. So Sony's sensor side would go making such a camera.

I don't think anyone should expect a D3 or 1D type camera. I think
it will be something more like a cross of a Canon 5D and 1Ds. A
camera for landscapers or even Medium Formaters who want Zeiss primes
but want the compact size the 1Ds doesn't offer and a build quality
and pixel count the 5D and it's replacement don't. With a high pixel
count body in a 5DII size and cost. Sony has in one shot out gunned
both the 5DII and 1DsIII. Assuming the 5DII is around 16MP as most
expect.

Cameras like the D3 have that market locked right now, Sony would not
be able to compete with that at this time. Until a few years passes
and they have the full line of G lenses back and a pro support system
in place.

I also only give about a 50/50 shot of it being announced at PMA. We
know it exist, we have seen the mockups, we have heard people are in
the field testing it. What might increase it's odds for PMA is
seeing how the A200 is getting announced at CES (actually it's
getting announced sunday night). Unless Sony has a A500 for PMA,
they might be clearing the road for the A900. They would be wise to
get it out now, before Nikon announces a D3X and the 1DsIII is just
coming out. Sony could re-route a lot of 1Ds sales if they announce
the body now before to many folks have ordered there 1DsIII,
especially at 1/2 the price, more pixels, smaller size and some new
Ziess glass. Still, I'm thinking it will be more of an updated
teaser.

Hey!

Are you King Solomon reincarnared? Or you just doing a good impersination?!

That was an excellent analysis.

Sadly your analysis is more than likely spot on, and I for one don't want a ff sensor camera with more than 16Mpx (as I feel that at level there is a great balance between medium format type pixel count, large pixel size and therefore good high ISO performance, and decent enough frame rate).

ledgars Regular Member • Posts: 314
Re: A900 Speculation

I remember time before A700 announcement. Many of people suspected 14, 16, 18 and even 20MP for new A700 camera. In addition, some of them expected that it could be FF camera. I also will be extremely happy for the best camera with FF 20MP low noise in high ISOs etc for some 3000USD (actually I care more about AF and IQ than MP), but it will may be happen after 3-5 or more years.

If we look on DSLR market today, we have only few FF cameras for today: Nikon D3 and Canon 5D 12MP and 1DS Mark II – 16.7 and MKIII 20MP for 2000, 5000, 6000 and 8000USD respectively. If Sony will go out with some high MP camera, the same sensor will go to the Nikon and obviously Nikon could do better camera and it will ruined Sony plans and market. Canon never put more MP in their cameras as needed (40D has 10MP etc) and I suspect that new 5D will be with FF 14MP in almost the same as 40D body, therefore Sony A900 with 16-18 MP and excellent IQ could be competitor for highest end of market, where only one camera has more MP.

Fruitish Regular Member • Posts: 110
for the pessimists amongst us..

.. this little line from popphoto.com in their article on the A200:

"And for those who were hoping for yet another slam-bang Sony introduction, we can only say: Keep checking PopPhoto.com."

I'd speculate they already have their hands on a pre-prod version of the A900. Your guess is as good as mine.
--
Let there be light! Who said that?

carlgarrard Regular Member • Posts: 448
Re: for the pessimists amongst us..

Not only is it a good guess.

I am certain they do.

I would also put good money on Phil already having one as well as other major reviewers.
--

'Color vibrates at a very specific frequency, like music. If the notes are off even a little, it ruins the whole orchestra.'

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