1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

Started Jan 2, 2008 | Discussions
Glyn Davies New Member • Posts: 8
1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

Hi Guys,

New to this forum but thought it was a good place to discuss a fairly significant problem with some Mk3 units. After 24 years as a full time professional landscape photographer this is not some querky use of a new camera but some sensors seem to be misaligned. If I view a horizon or even just a straight edge and align this with the top of the frame, even tripod mounted, the resulting image slopes significantly down to the right needing noticeable correction in software to correct it. I have had to start forcing myself to shoot deliberately wonky pictures in order to correct the slope. Canon of course deny knowledge of this but have sent the complaint to their technical department.

As I am on two other international professional lists I now know others have found the same thing exactly. My reseller is arranging a direct swap out of this two week old unit but this is worrying in a £6K camera unit!
--
Glyn Davies Photo-Artist Ltd

andypoo Regular Member • Posts: 105
Re: 1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

Bad canon bad!!

And one would think they learned from their mistake with the AF of the Mark III...

PetesDeuce Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: 1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment
Jane Auburn
Jane Auburn Contributing Member • Posts: 574
Canon quality control is horrible

Man, oh man: Canon's quality control has grown so bad that I am reluctant to buy anything from the company.

Glyn Davies wrote:

Hi Guys,

New to this forum but thought it was a good place to discuss a fairly
significant problem with some Mk3 units. After 24 years as a full
time professional landscape photographer this is not some querky use
of a new camera but some sensors seem to be misaligned. If I view a
horizon or even just a straight edge and align this with the top of
the frame, even tripod mounted, the resulting image slopes
significantly down to the right needing noticeable correction in
software to correct it. I have had to start forcing myself to shoot
deliberately wonky pictures in order to correct the slope. Canon of
course deny knowledge of this but have sent the complaint to their
technical department.

As I am on two other international professional lists I now know
others have found the same thing exactly. My reseller is arranging a
direct swap out of this two week old unit but this is worrying in a
£6K camera unit!
--
Glyn Davies Photo-Artist Ltd

KiboOst
KiboOst Senior Member • Posts: 1,187
Re: 1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

yes there is several reports about this. I really though a 8000€ body would be perfect manifacturing, specially when highly overpriced like that (don't say me FF sensor alone cost 4k€ more than 1DIII, when a whole 5D cost less than 2k€). I was ready to order an 1DsIII even knowing 1DIII AF nightmare, but now I've really no confidence at all in Canon quality control even for their highest pro body ! When paying 8k€ for pro body, 100% viewfinder and such, we can expect something "pro" !

Now if Canon release a comment on this problem on a particular batch, I can understand, but seeing how they handle AF problem I don't expect such reasonnable and professionnal behavior anymore.

Anyway "if", I will buy it at my local shop (someone I personnally know for years even before doing photo) and check it entirely before "keep and shoot". A really annoying way for such high priced stuff !

my 2cents
NG
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OP Glyn Davies New Member • Posts: 8
Re: 1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

Hi NG, I think the idea of buying direct from store is definitely good advice but I reckon even in a store most of us would initially NOT look for this sort of error, we would just assume it was careless handling in the store, without a tripod etc!

I think Jane is also correct in that quality control in the last two very expensive camera releases of the 1D and IDS Mk3s is very poor. These are quite basic checks that really should be carried out before any expensive hi tech piece of kit leaves the factory.

I now have the cost of returning this camera to the supplier at MY cost because they don't have the QC in place

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Glyn Davies Photo-Artist Ltd

OP Glyn Davies New Member • Posts: 8
Re: 1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

Thanks Pete, good to know I'm not going mad and that MANY others are noticing the same thing!

PetesDeuce wrote:

Another thread same issue....
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=26224460

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Glyn Davies Photo-Artist Ltd

KiboOst
KiboOst Senior Member • Posts: 1,187
Re: 1DS Mk3 Sensor Mis-alignment

I begin to think that some days we will see some stores that manually check all their stuff (lenses, bodies) before selling them, with a higher price but a "buy with 100% confidence" sticker ! This would be the worst promotion for Canon but I become near sure there is a market for that, as dumb as it sounds !
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seanmcr6
seanmcr6 Senior Member • Posts: 1,614
could this not be the mirror?

You are looking through the viewfinder right?

It is possible that it's the mirror that mis-aligned. Giving you a skewed image.

Have you tried the live view? Since this is the output from the sensor itself, you could use it to check the horizon compared to the viewfinder image.

Just a thought

sean

DIGIC Senior Member • Posts: 1,259
Re: could this not be the mirror?

Hi Sean,

I think you didn't understood completely.

The problem is exactly what you describe, when you even the horizon looking through the viewfinder, if you then activate the live view without moving the camera, the horizon is already tilted CCW.

That IS the issue.

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Dave Peters Senior Member • Posts: 1,520
Re: could this not be the mirror?

You really need to mount the camera on a tripod with a spirit level and then photograph a horizontal edge also set with a spirit level. Then if the viewfinder image looks tilted, the problem is with the viewfinder/mirror. If the live view/image file look tilted then its the sensor alignment.

If my camera focuses perfectly when I get it into the field then I doubt I would send it in for this. If they move the sensor the entire thing will have to be callibrated. I would not want to risk future focus problems if there are none now.

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Dave Peters

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DIGIC Senior Member • Posts: 1,259
Re: could this not be the mirror?

Hi Dave,

I really only agree with you on this:

"If they move the sensor the entire thing will have to be callibrated. I would not want to risk future focus problems if there are none now."

If you have a camera not perfectly aligned between viewfinder and sensor, just demand for a replacement. When i talked about the LCD magenta cast with the dealer, he promptly talked about sending it for repair, but i didn't accept that and asked for a full replacement.

As to using spirit levels, leave that to Canon folks... In my view, if i verify there is a misalignment between what i see in the viewfinder and what i see in the LCD/computer, i simply don't care what the problem is. There IS a problem. Period.

I don't work for Canon, so i am not doing the 'bug fixing' work for them.

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DIGIC Senior Member • Posts: 1,259
Re: could this not be the mirror?

I just put my 2yold 5D to the same test and the misalignment between the viewfinder and the sensor is 0, zero, nothing... PERFECT CAMERA!

This is how the 1Ds should be, right?

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Robphoto Regular Member • Posts: 474
Re: could this not be the mirror?

I don't work for Canon, so i am not doing the 'bug fixing' work for
them.

There are plenty of gear-heads on this forum to do that for you!

Dave Peters Senior Member • Posts: 1,520
Re: could this not be the mirror?

Well I agree you should get a replacement if you are not happy and you can afford the time to get a new one.

I need it for an expedition in February and need also some time to get used to it as its my first 1d series. Plus I imported from USA to UK, there is no guarantee of a better one and most of my photos would probably not show up the problem anyway.

It should be about the first adjustment you make in a sensor system to allign the array. I worked with CCD cameras for steel mills and often the chip is not square in the package - so you can't design in the allignment on the cuircuit board. The sensor had to be trimmed in all axis.

Maybe there will be a blue dot 1Ds MkIII !

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seanmcr6
seanmcr6 Senior Member • Posts: 1,614
simple work around

If you can't send it in and need to use it, the work around would be to setup on a tripod and use Liveview. Since liveview shows you exactly what the sensor is seeing, you can setup your horizon on that.

sean

OP Glyn Davies New Member • Posts: 8
Re: could this not be the mirror?

DIGIC wrote:

As to using spirit levels, leave that to Canon folks... In my view,
if i verify there is a misalignment between what i see in the
viewfinder and what i see in the LCD/computer, i simply don't care
what the problem is. There IS a problem. Period.

I agree totally; as I say they have agreed to a full replacement so I am just hoping the next unit is better set up :-S

Best

Glyn

Old Timer63
Old Timer63 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,998
Re: could this not be the mirror?

Look, life is too short and the next camera will be out before you settle down and get the perfect camera. you will then have lost all those months of the enjoyment of using this superb tool. I remember when I used to be over the top fussy with the steering wheel of any new car being absolutely square. It ruined my enjoyment of those vehicles whilst others were having fun. I can't get those cars or the years back. I didn't notice it before the threads were started and don't notice it now and I'm not going to get picky about it. If it was an IQ problem then that would be a different story.
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OP Glyn Davies New Member • Posts: 8
Re: could this not be the mirror?

Hi Dave,

Dave Chilvers wrote:

Look, life is too short and the next camera will be out before you
settle down and get the perfect camera. you will then have lost all
those months of the enjoyment of using this superb tool.

At the moment it is NOT a perfect tool, but I AM a perfectionist and a full time qualified professional of 24 years. A professional needs tools s/he can totally and implicitly rely on, all the time, every time. The amateur has the luxury of time for correction afterwards, the pro doesn't. If I was talking about 0.5 to 1º then I may be slightly less worried but the variation on my new unit is about 5º!!! Unless I deliberately turn the camera forceably the other way the images have sloping horizons worse than any newbie!! If you check some of the comments you will see that there are distinct variations in the amount of this error. I'm sorry but for £6000.00 GBP this should NOT be happening.
Respectfully
Glyn
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A.C. Elkins Regular Member • Posts: 131
Re: My 5D has the same problem

When shooting flat artwork, I notice that when the edges of the artwork are aliged in the viewfinder, I need to rotate the image 0.8 degrees CW in Photoshop once I import the file to my computer.

Probably not a problem with landscape, but a pain for artwork reproduction. Not anywhere near the 5 degree figure mentioned earlier, but still a problem that should have been corrected in a camera costing $3000 ( at time of release ) and without doubt corrected in an $8000 camera!

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