D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

Started Nov 13, 2007 | Discussions
Beau Long Contributing Member • Posts: 972
Re: Caveat to Nikonians

bob elkind wrote:

Keep in mind these D300 shots were taken in the UConn arena, a 1A
college where basketball is a BIG deal. You won't see arena lighting
like this (or anything even close) in your kids' high school gym.

So true... NCAA DivII's no better than most HS gyms either. It will be a test, no doubt. I've been toying with the idea of an AB/PW set up. Most of those DII caves are not very crowded most of the time.

Yup, they are impressive pictures. The D300 will be a fine camera.
The excellent lighting helps quite a bit.

We'll know for sure in a couple weeks.. the Ritz email just came in saying they are on their way to the WH from Nikon.

forre Forum Member • Posts: 89
Noise reduction is a bit aggressive

It looks like if the image has been cleaned up during the PP and a somewhat aggressive NR was applied. I don't see a lot of detail on the player's clothing. But it's surely a good sign that you can have usable images from Nikon at ISO 3200 now. Thumbs up for that!
--
Regards,
Olga

Beau Long Contributing Member • Posts: 972
In camera only according to photog... n/t

forre wrote:

It looks like if the image has been cleaned up during the PP and a
somewhat aggressive NR was applied. I don't see a lot of detail on
the player's clothing. But it's surely a good sign that you can have
usable images from Nikon at ISO 3200 now. Thumbs up for that!
--
Regards,
Olga

larsbc Forum Pro • Posts: 16,166
Re: water color is considered great now?

Kim Letkeman wrote:
[snip]

The 100% crop shows that there is a water color effect indicating
extreme high iso noise reduction. It is very well done, I grant that,
but there is no texture left in the hair or on the ball. Look at the
eyes ... they look painted. The skin also has a mosaic effect.

The eyes are a relatively small portion of the full image and the lack of detail might also be attributable to some focus error. Hard for me to tell. As for water colour effect...yeah, there's a little bit. But it's very subdued, as you said. Again, consider the area you're looking at in the context of the full image size. I think it would print very well.

I don't mind losing some detail in the dark areas. And the light areas seem to hold up very well. The subtle shades of white on the player's jersey are nicely rendered, imo.

While it doesn't compare to the D3, the ISO3200 image quality is certainly good enough for me.

The D2Hs retains almost all of the texture at 3200 with some grain
added ... but it has photosites 3 times the size of the D300.

Question: how are you comparing the D300 images against the D2Hs? If you're looking at both at 100%, isn't the D300 already at a disadvantage since the effective magnification is higher? Shouldn't the D300's file be downsized to the same pixel dimensions as the D2Hs' file?

I hope that the production cameras are able to retain more fine
detail ... but I fear that 12mp on a DX sensor really is beyond the
limit.

I think the OP at NikonCafe said that his was a production camera. In any case, I wouldn't expect firmware to give us much more of an improvement.

larsbc

TrekSF6 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,090
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

Have to say that those images look pretty good. In fact, they look better than high ISO action images I have seen so far from the Canon. Also, I don't think you are going to see much of a detail difference between the D300 and D3 in 90% of any shot you take. You would have to output incredibly large prints to actually see a difference imo. Blowing these images up to 100% on the internet and then arguing about them is just ridiculous. It has no real world significance. It really does not!

Hey I have an idea, lets all show images on our computer so large, that we need to use the scroll bars such that we can look at only a very small part of the image at one time. Yea, that's really smart...

You 100% crop freaks are just that, freaks. And you are all stupid. Seriously f* g stupid.
The D300 is looking to be a great cam.
--
Scott A.

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snappey Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

S.A. wrote:

Have to say that those images look pretty good. In fact, they look
better than high ISO action images I have seen so far from the Canon.

Which ones have you seen?

You 100% crop freaks are just that, freaks. And you are all stupid.
Seriously f* g stupid.
The D300 is looking to be a great cam.
--
Scott A.

TrekSF6 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,090
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

snappey wrote:

S.A. wrote:

Have to say that those images look pretty good. In fact, they look
better than high ISO action images I have seen so far from the Canon.

Which ones have you seen?

Well, just for a quick and dirty reference, these images that you referenced don't even come close to the topic D300 images.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25606664

In fact, I would say it is a night and day difference. I wouldn't be happy with them. VERY soft. And others I have seen so far show the same thing. However, we can't really make a definitive judgment since nothing I have seen so far is from a professional.

-- hide signature --

Scott A.

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FrankG Senior Member • Posts: 2,040
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

snappey wrote:

randy jk wrote:

I shoot with a 20D and 1D MKII and ISO 3200 is a last resort. No way
can I get images this clean at 3200.

With the 40D you can. Here's a bunch of 40D basketball shots at
iso3200:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/awhit22/sets/72157603024073394/

They look great.

These show at 500 x 333 pixels on my computer (less than a quarter of the size of the D300 images revealed by the OP). That's not big enough for any critical analysis.

  • Frank

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snappey Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

S.A. wrote:

snappey wrote:

S.A. wrote:

Have to say that those images look pretty good. In fact, they look
better than high ISO action images I have seen so far from the Canon.

Which ones have you seen?

Well, just for a quick and dirty reference, these images that you
referenced don't even come close to the topic D300 images.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25606664

Ah, so those are the only ones you've seen?

In fact, I would say it is a night and day difference. I wouldn't be
happy with them. VERY soft. And others I have seen so far show the
same thing.

What other ones have you seen?

However, we can't really make a definitive judgment since
nothing I have seen so far is from a professional.

-- hide signature --

Scott A.

notegra Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Another Canon-shooter with all the symptoms

Elixir wrote:

Diagnosis is below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer 's_remorse

Be sure to come here often and justify your purchase. It's so
important that you defend that innocent camera of yours.

calling the kettle black.......

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just pictures - http://www.flickr.com/photos/notegra/
thank you for reading my post

David Chin Forum Pro • Posts: 11,670
Compared to a D200 ISO3200 basketball ...

... as shown in Thom's D200 review a bit further down: http://www.bythom.com/d200review.htm

... I think the D300's is way, way better and far from looking anywhere near smooth plastic. Let's give credit where credit is due.

Kim Letkeman wrote:

The hair and the ball look like smooth plastic. Don't get me wrong, I
hope the cam can do a great 3200 iso ... but heavy Noiseware or the
like and cranking contrast is not quite what I was looking for.

-- hide signature --

Regards, David Chin

Pics:
http://nikond300.dpnotes.com/

snappey Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

S.A. wrote:

snappey wrote:

S.A. wrote:

Have to say that those images look pretty good. In fact, they look
better than high ISO action images I have seen so far from the Canon.

Which ones have you seen?

Well, just for a quick and dirty reference, these images that you
referenced don't even come close to the topic D300 images.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25606664

Making a huge deal out of three D300 basketball shots that are not particularly extraordinary. It's not like indoor basketball shots are THAT difficult. Must be just the excitement and anticipation of the new model causing the gushing. Those D300 shots were closer (one at 70mm), which is a lot easier than getting shots from farther away. In fact these look great:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=25557606

-- hide signature --

Scott A.

Dean D Fetterolf Senior Member • Posts: 1,431
Re: D300 Basketball Shots at ISO 3200

Stunning Superb and If you disagree you have never shot under these conditions. Gymnasium light is horrible. This quality would do just fine in newsprint, 8x10 print or an magazine covershot
--

Dean D. Fetterolf
http://www.pbase.com/dfettero
http://www.ddfphoto.com

Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,436
Re: Compared to a D200 ISO3200 basketball ...

David Chin wrote:

... as shown in Thom's D200 review a bit further down:
http://www.bythom.com/d200review.htm

Sorry, but I don't quite understand how you can compare a shot in good light against a shot where the basketball is in terrible light and essentially completely obscured by the net.

... I think the D300's is way, way better and far from looking
anywhere near smooth plastic. Let's give credit where credit is due.

Well, yes, it does look far better. There was enough light on it to get a shutter sped of 1/640s and the lense was even stopped down a bit. It has vibrant color and you can see the stripes ... but you can't see the texture of the ball at all. Instead, there is a fine grained noise running across the ball and the people. Let's give it a break though, the ball may be slightly out of the plane of focus ...

In case you are wondering what I think I'm not seeing -- I would be expecting to see something left of pebble texture like this (shot at 1600iso on a compact camera by the way):

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,340
Jose's shots are always great

Having said that, his were shot at iso1250, which I am pretty sure the D300 would match pretty well with. Pro courts are VERY well lit. The shots you put down so much were at 3200, and for that iso look fabulous.

Snappey, why is it you feel the need to come over here and belittle the D300? All the new cameras by canon, sony and nikon are superb cameras at great prices. I really don't see what your agenda is. The other link you posted of the 40D girls BB were worse than the D300 shots. Most of us know that the 40D is a great camera at a great price. So is the Nikon, a few more features, but more money. I think you need to relax on this and just enjoy ALL these new improved cameras. It is really a great time to be in this hobby.

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,340
Hi kim, it would b nice to see the grain, sure..but

at that range and speed of the action and that iso, I'm not surprised that its not visible.

Look here at Jose's great shots:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=25557606

See any grain on the ball? and at a much lower iso and much better light. To be honest, getting any kind of usable shots at 3200 on a regular basis on the mid level cameras is amazing. I honestly feel, and some pretty good canon and nikon users agree, there is not a lot of difference left between the new cameras. I for one feel thats a good thing. I does puzzle me when I see people wanting or hoping that Nikon will fail.

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snappey Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: Jose's shots are always great

sandy b wrote:

Having said that, his were shot at iso1250, which I am pretty sure
the D300 would match pretty well with. Pro courts are VERY well lit.
The shots you put down so much were at 3200, and for that iso look
fabulous.

Snappey, why is it you feel the need to come over here and belittle
the D300?

I haven't belittled the D300 anywhere. Pointing out that some samples are not extraordinary is hardly belittling the camera. When I respond to a post "over here", it's usually in response to a post about the 40D and its capabilities.

All the new cameras by canon, sony and nikon are superb
cameras at great prices. I really don't see what your agenda is.

Actually, you'll find that I'm just reminding folks of what you've just said.

The other link you posted of the 40D girls BB were worse than the D300
shots.

I never claimed they were better. I was responding to a claim about not being able to get clean shots at 3200. Those were shot by some guy on flickr. They may be soft, but they are shot at 3200 and certainly are clean.

Most of us know that the 40D is a great camera at a great
price.

You know it, I know it. Others seem to be confused and I'm just pointing that out when they make wild negative exaggerations or incorrect claims.

So is the Nikon, a few more features, but more money. I think
you need to relax on this and just enjoy ALL these new improved
cameras. It is really a great time to be in this hobby.

I'm relaxed and I agree.

David Chin Forum Pro • Posts: 11,670
Re: Compared to a D200 ISO3200 basketball ...

I see a stationary ball in good light filling up most of the frame. Very nice.

Kim Letkeman wrote:

In case you are wondering what I think I'm not seeing -- I would be
expecting to see something left of pebble texture like this (shot at
1600iso on a compact camera by the way):

-- hide signature --

Regards, David Chin
http://nikond300.dpnotes.com/

PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,075
ISO 1250 vs 3200

Making a huge deal out of three D300 basketball shots that are not
particularly extraordinary. It's not like indoor basketball shots
are THAT difficult. Must be just the excitement and anticipation of
the new model causing the gushing. Those D300 shots were closer (one
at 70mm), which is a lot easier than getting shots from farther away.
In fact these look great:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=25557606

But those are at ISO 1250 according to the poster.
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LeeR Senior Member • Posts: 1,518
Lens Used?

I looked through the thread and may have missed it...but did not see which lens was used with these shots.

Lee

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