Thom Hogan says Oly ambitions are

Started Oct 24, 2007 | Discussions
Gordon Solomon Regular Member • Posts: 254
Thom Hogan says Oly ambitions are

As you may noticed the above thread has been removed. Thom's entire article was copied and pasted which is of course a copyright violation not to mention somewhat disrespectful. Please may I remind our posters that copyrighted material may not be posted here except by the copyright holder or with their explicit permission.

Thank you,
Gordon
--
Gordon Solomon
Assistant technical writer, dpreview.com

Brian Mosley Forum Pro • Posts: 20,720
Free traffic for Thom... as a freebie from dpreview :

http://www.bythom.com/

It's a shame the article wasn't linked in this way, as I found the thread here on dpreview interesting and informative... and I think that Thom should be supported for having a go at Olympus - after all, there's no such thing as bad publicity!

When we get Nikon experts worrying and looking over their shoulder at Olympus aiming to grab market share - we should be very pleased that Olympus have a strong future! lol

Kind Regards

Brian
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frankjules
frankjules Senior Member • Posts: 1,475
Well.. I don't agree somewhat..

Its funny how even the professionals like to trash or at the least comment negatively on Olympus' desire to increase market share, by saying how unrealistic their approach is by putting out another outdated already product like the E3. What he doesn't address in the article is the actual photography aspect and capabilities of the E3 to take amazing pictures.. he himself hasn't had the privilege of using the E3, so once again here is someone who has no idea as to what they are talking about. Get the camera in your hands, "Thom", use the camera, take it on a safari or something.. then make your comments, intelligent ones that actually have a "user perspective" to them. There are plenty of Oly user professionals who swear by the E1, I for one am one of those, mind you I'm not famous or anything, but I do make part of my living from photography, and I am looking at the E3 as my next chapter, and look at the wonderful lineup of lenses now.. so to Thom and his article about "dreaming"..... huh.. wake up!
Frank

Brian Mosley Forum Pro • Posts: 20,720
I totally agree with you Frank...

... and let's hope there are some Nikon users out there who come across Thom's ramblings, and decide to do some research on Olympus for themselves? maybe even go out and actually try one for themselves?

I owned a Nikon D1, a D1x and now I'm happier than ever with my E-1, E-400 and will be open to making up my own mind about the E-3 when I get one in my hands

Kind Regards

Brian
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WCV Regular Member • Posts: 225
Re: Thom Hogan says Oly ambitions are

Thank you for the reminder concerning copy right materials. Obviously Mr. Hogan had his purposes why he posted his remarks. Personally I am looking to forward to seeing how the E-3 performs and I hope it does very well.
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E-1 plus some stuff

Perry Jacobs Regular Member • Posts: 438
Not that simple

Thom stands to gain financially from Nikon doing well and more power to him, he has earned that position, but he also has a responsibility to get basic facts straight especially when he sets out bashing another brand. His current Olympus article is filled with erroneous facts and sketchy conclusions based off those facts. It should be redacted or corrected; he owes that to the photographic community including his Nikon based customers.

Addressing the following would help:

1) An acknowledgement that leaked Oly marketing materials targeted the Canon 40D and Nikon D300 instead of 30D and D200 as he claimed. Olympus is hardly incompetent to the level that suggests.

2) Thom throws out a number of 50,000/month e3 units necessary to meet 20% market share and concludes Oly is doomed because that is impossible. Really? Does that cover the 5 year period Oly said they would need to obtain the figure and why only e3 units, Oly has other cameras competitive in other segments. This is sketchy reasoning at best constructed to make Oly look hopeless.

3) His claim that Oly stubbornly tries to compete without using a weight advantage it might have and concludes what’s the point in buying Oly if they have no weight advantage. I personally replied to one of his threads after he lauded the d40 for being so small he could run with it. I pointed out the e400/410 were quite a bit smaller and lighter, no response from Thom. I hardly think Thom Hogan with all his technical know-how is in the dark about the weight advantage Olympus has when compared to other brands. Him cherry picking the e3 weight out of context, is inexcusable. Drop by the Oly forum here at dpreview and many good folks will why the camera is lightest in class and the system is the lightest on the market

Brian Mosley wrote:

http://www.bythom.com/

It's a shame the article wasn't linked in this way, as I found the
thread here on dpreview interesting and informative... and I think
that Thom should be supported for having a go at Olympus - after all,
there's no such thing as bad publicity!

When we get Nikon experts worrying and looking over their shoulder at
Olympus aiming to grab market share - we should be very pleased that
Olympus have a strong future! lol

Kind Regards

Brian
--

Join us for a photographic safari in the Heart of England...
Saturday 27th to Sunday 28th October 2007
Click here for details...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=24737378
and click here if you would like to come along...
http://alert2life.squarespace.com/olympus-photo-safari-oct07/

England Kev Senior Member • Posts: 1,601
I have never even heard of Thom Hogan

until the thread was put on here, and I never read that either. So I don't really care what he thinks or says, one way or another, and I guess he hasn't heard of me either, or care about what I think.

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Brian Mosley Forum Pro • Posts: 20,720
Thanks Perry,

I'd missed that about the D200/D300 and 30D/40D mixup. Very bad indeed.

It's good that we get to read the factual counterpoints here... I'm glad the article was pointed out by the OP.

Kind Regards

Brian
--

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Click here for details...
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and click here if you would like to come along...
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BJL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,341
20% share -> consumer level sales -> E-500/400/410/510 etc. -> small and light

Thanks for the summary. Apart from the near dishonesty of claiming to have read the leaked material and then totally misrepresenting what it says about expected comeptitors (40D and D300, not 30D and D200), there is the ridiculous emphasis on the E-3 in relation to a goal of 20% market share. Even Nikon aims at less than 10% market share for the D300!

The reality is this:

1. Olympus, like any SLR maker, must expect most market share growth to come from increased sales of entry level models, meaning the E-410, E-510 and their successors.

2. Olympus entry level models have been consistently the lightest on the market since the E-500. I believe that the succession of E-500, E-400, E-410 and E-510 has been the four lightest DSLR's so far. (the only ones under 500g?)

3. Putting aside the 'limited edition' E-400, the E-500 and E-410/E-510 have been been by far the best sellers of FourThirds so far. So in that respect the article is right: lightweight bodies (and telephoto lenses) have been key to entry level market share growth for FourThirds so far.

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amikoenig Regular Member • Posts: 149
Re: I have never even heard of Thom Hogan

It is amazing the hero like worship this Thom Hogan receives. He sems like a hukster of his personal goodies just trying to make a buck.

Brian Mosley Forum Pro • Posts: 20,720
Silly smear...

Thom does some excellent field guides for Nikon users... just a little out of his depth talking about Olympus imho - as I said, take it as a compliment - when Nikon guys are looking over their shoulder at Olympus.

Kind Regards

Brian
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Rlinnell Regular Member • Posts: 208
A Smear???

I think there is a lot of over reacting here.

I didn't find that the article was attacking Olympus or the E series necessarily but rather was pointing out the difficulties that Olympus will have in achieving such dramatic increases in market share. He even stated he found the E510 to be a nice camera and thought the E-3 would be as well.

There are two strengths that drew me to 4/3rds; the fantastic Zuikos and the compactness of the system. I tend to agree with many others that Olympus is not playing to the strength of the latter with the E-3. Those who have handled it have stated that while build quality is great, it is large and and heavy.

IMHO, the E-3 will not cause a dramatic migration to Olympus because it doesn't offer a feature set that would tempt the masses to sale their current gear and jump to Olympus.

It also will not tempt any new users because it's to expensive. The primary buyers of the E3 will be existing Olympus users.

That leaves the E510/410 as the cameras to cause dramatic increases in market share and while WE who use them all KNOW what great camera's they are, the masses are still going to go for the bigger Canon & Nikon offerings of the d40 or Xti.

When I think about it I have to agree with most of his assertions.

Just my opinion of course.

Steve82 Senior Member • Posts: 2,912
Re: Free traffic for Thom... as a freebie from dpreview :

Brian Mosley wrote:

When we get Nikon experts worrying and looking over their shoulder at
Olympus aiming to grab market share - we should be very pleased that
Olympus have a strong future! lol

You're reading something other than what I read....I don't read that Thom is "worried" or even cares what Olympus's market share is. He justs points out the obvious....that Oly is unlikely to gain enough market share to reach their stated goal of 20% of the DSLR market.

Is he right? I guess time will tell.

Kyle Jones
Kyle Jones Senior Member • Posts: 2,320
I'm glad to see...

... an explanation posted after a thread was removed. Many times in the past we've been left to wonder why threads have gone away. I hope that posting an explanation like this is a new policy.
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BJL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,341
blatantly innaccurate, to the point of revealing bias?

Rlinnell wrote:

I think there is a lot of over reacting here.

I didn't find that the article was attacking Olympus or the E series necessarily but rather was pointing out the difficulties that Olympus will have in achieving such dramatic increases in market share.

Unfortunately, it starts with some obvious falsehoods about the leaked internal briefing, giving a false impression of Olympus incompetence in assessing its competition, and follows with an absurd emphasis on the idea of Olympus hoping for E-3 sales contributing a big chunk of the hoped for increase in market share.

The falsehoods are his claim that Olympus was aiming the E-3 to compete against the 30D and D200 and was not anticipating updates to those models, whereas the document shows the opposite: it anticipates a 40D and D300 as the E-3's competitors, and guesses at their likely features.

And the 20% share is a five year goal, and clearly expected to come mostly from lower priced models like the E-410, E-510 and their successors over that five year period (Olympus updates entry level models about annually). Hogan's criticisms of the E-3 on size and such do not apply to the entry level models where Olympus is pushing the size and weight advantage, so most of his argument falls apart.

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dieselhead Junior Member • Posts: 34
Nikonists looking over there shoulder

Brian -- I hope you are right. Though it is interesting to take a look at what happens when someone comes in from the outside, with views informed by writers like Thom Hogan and Michael Reichman, to find out what the Olympus concept is all about:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=25375230

Bootstrap Forum Pro • Posts: 20,999
Re: blatantly innaccurate, to the point of revealing bias?

BJL wrote:

And the 20% share is a five year goal, and clearly expected to come
mostly from lower priced models like the E-410, E-510 and their
successors over that five year period (Olympus updates entry level
models about annually). Hogan's criticisms of the E-3 on size and
such do not apply to the entry level models where Olympus is pushing
the size and weight advantage, so most of his argument falls apart.

Exactly.
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Jay Turberville Forum Pro • Posts: 12,918
Right-O

And the 20% share is a five year goal, and clearly expected to come
mostly from lower priced models like the E-410, E-510 and their
successors over that five year period (Olympus updates entry level
models about annually). Hogan's criticisms of the E-3 on size and
such do not apply to the entry level models where Olympus is pushing
the size and weight advantage, so most of his argument falls apart.

Exactly.

And when you consider that Thom is actually a pretty astute observer of the technology scene, your are left with about two reasonable conclusions.

1) It was a blatant smear.

2) It was incompetently researched and considered.

Neither option is very pretty for Thom.

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Jay Turberville Forum Pro • Posts: 12,918
Re: I'm glad to see...

Yes. It would have been better if just the infringing posts that contained the entire article were removed though.

-- hide signature --
Peter Gregg Veteran Member • Posts: 4,755
Didn't like that article - should have been much better

I read that article and found it lacking terribly, making comments and then missing the mark totally. It also lacks passion in any direction and it felt more like it was whipping up air.

Olympus stating their targets is propaganda and anyone can see that. To park your car there and choose the point point of weight and size is basically nothing more than cavitation and waste of an opportunity to really create some controversial conversation.

People do not go into a store with a scale and a ruler and weigh and measure a camera. Okay, that is an overstatement, but the feel of a camera is important, but it is only the opening round and once you leave the "hello" stage you move on to much more important things that actually make up the buying decision. Hardly anyone will move back to the point of saying "but it weighs too much let's not buy it". What type of writing is that? Whipped air is my best comments on it.

Some real meat would be, if Olympus plans to dig inroads into market share they need to do this - or they need o do that. Some content as a reward for spending the time to read the article.

Sorry, for me, it's a thumbs down.

Now, on to the topic of Oly's chances. Is the camera a "me too" or does it offer something unique for users of other systems? The obviously LARGE selling point is the image stabilization coupled with F2 zoom lenses that is not duplicated anywhere else. This is THE market niche for Olympus at the moment. If they produced a camera with no gotchas, if it really REALLY can do blazingly fast and ACCURATE focus locks at -2ev, and also give me a stabilized image with a zoom capable of F2 - I sure am interested.

And despite the outcry that will come from my next comment, it's my opinion, and this is my post so I will make it Olympus needs to add another similar camera backed off to 8megapixels and deliver a picture at high ISO that will knock your socks off. With it's sensor ratio of 4:3, 4x6 prints can afford to be cropped down as 4x6 isn't really a challange even to 3mp cameras, but larger 8x10 and 16x20, and 24x30 prints will keep most of the precious pixels intact with Oly's unique ratio. But you can't make up for lost detail killed by noise reduction. They should make a 12mp model for the megapixel junkies, and an 8mp model for the quality freaks.

And another frontier that always ALWAYS attracts attention from EVERY camera segment - the AA filter. Make the 8mp model with a removable AA filter. People will salivate at the mouth for that option like - whatever, you get the picture. These things ARE marketing ploys, but useful stuff to those on desperate hunts for them. All of a sudden, the Nikon and Canon user will require to have an OLY too because of those exact features. Put that all together and you have more than unique, you have simply irresistable, but what do I know

Now, that would have been an article worth writing. It will conjure up some real conversation on both sides. The girly talk of too big and to heavy is not my cup of tea.

Peter

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