Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

Started Sep 6, 2007 | Discussions
shaocaholica Contributing Member • Posts: 870
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

JulesJ wrote:

Will this one feel like a toy in your hands like the Alpha?
Jules

All it needs to do is have good balance, ergonomics and survive drops/elements. There are things in the world that are made with composites that are super light and feel pretty flimsy to someone who isn't in the know but are stronger than steel. In the times we live in, "feeling like a toy" isn't necessarily a bad thing. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that heavier = sturdier without studying its internal design and real world performance.

DocDAT Senior Member • Posts: 1,180
Re: If A700's IQ is similar to A100's, it will be good to stop doors...

Mauro.B wrote:

Specs are marketing. Period.

Same could be said about the D300.....

simedarby Junior Member • Posts: 45
Re: Minolta

shaocaholica wrote:

Debankur Mukherjee wrote:

Just dont compare D300 with A700....Its no way near D300....

I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees that the A700 is spec'd lower
than the D300 but that doesn't mean its "no way near" or "not even in
the same class" as the D300. Its a notch down, not a step. And
being only a "notch" lower still qualifies it for comparison for many
of its features which we'll see in the upcomming reviews.

agree. make perfect sense.

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

Someone who isn't in the know eh, and you are?

Twenty one years as a prototype builder and model maker in industrial design and lifetime in photography starting with a Brownie 127 and currently using a D2X. What would I know I know about tactileness? And your credentials may I ask. A Sony owner defending their choice I would guess.
jules

shaocaholica wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

Will this one feel like a toy in your hands like the Alpha?
Jules

All it needs to do is have good balance, ergonomics and survive
drops/elements. There are things in the world that are made with
composites that are super light and feel pretty flimsy to someone who
isn't in the know but are stronger than steel. In the times we live
in, "feeling like a toy" isn't necessarily a bad thing. I wouldn't
jump to the conclusion that heavier = sturdier without studying its
internal design and real world performance.

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Black moles do not destroy information.

shaocaholica Contributing Member • Posts: 870
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

JulesJ wrote:

Someone who isn't in the know eh, and you are?
Twenty one years as a prototype builder and model maker in industrial
design and lifetime in photography starting with a Brownie 127 and
currently using a D2X. What would I know I know about tactileness?
And your credentials may I ask. A Sony owner defending their choice I
would guess.
jules

I would defend any product against wild claims of "feeling like a toy" with the connotation that it has inferior design without much thought to real world performance. If you are so experienced in the matter, you should make more thought out posts because your previous one did not sound like one coming from a person with the credentials you just posted and even if you are a seasoned "prototype builder and model maker in industrial design", that doesn't necessarily make you an expert on camera structural design unless you deal with similar items in your line of work. Perhaps you should express your thoughts with more than just your credentials.

Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,958
A700 build and feel

JulesJ wrote:

Will this one feel like a toy in your hands like the Alpha?

Here is what someone that had a chance to see and use the A700 had to say:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=24724852

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=24714104

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

headofdestiny Veteran Member • Posts: 9,226
Re: If A700's IQ is similar to A100's, it will be good to stop doors...

Hey, this subject line is a ridiculous statement. We all know that the A100 is a little noisier in RAW than the other 10mp cameras, but you should also know that it has the MOST resolution of all of them as well. If I'm shooting above ISO 800, give me a canon, if I'm shooting ISO 400 or less, give me the A100. However, it looks like these new Sony sensors may equalize this for Sony and Nikon. Maybe I don't shoot in enough caves??

Slough Senior Member • Posts: 1,809
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

shaocaholica wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

Will this one feel like a toy in your hands like the Alpha?
Jules

All it needs to do is have good balance, ergonomics and survive
drops/elements. There are things in the world that are made with
composites that are super light and feel pretty flimsy to someone who
isn't in the know but are stronger than steel. In the times we live
in, "feeling like a toy" isn't necessarily a bad thing. I wouldn't
jump to the conclusion that heavier = sturdier without studying its
internal design and real world performance.

It was a reasonable question. The A100 is toy like due to use of plastics in the external shell. The Nikon D80 is plastic compared to the D200 which is metal. The D80 is not as tough, and flexes more. These plastics are not composites. The latter are expensive and difficult to produce.

From the information available the A700 is a so-called pro-sumer camera with a part metal, part plastic, exterior shell.

toni
toni Senior Member • Posts: 1,657
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

How do you classify the D40 ? Because the A100 is entry level it should be compared with that.

Compare the KM7D with Nikon D70 and you will fell the same, D70 is not on the same build level it feels more cheap then the 7D.

Now if the A700 will fell like the D300, I'm expecting that Nikon as put an effort to make it feel/work better then anything at that level of price.

BTW when its expected to be available ?
--
Check my photos @ http://vitorfonseca.5gbfree.com/index.html &
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vitorfonseca/

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

How I love a good descussion.

One doesn't have to waffle to make a point, and I simply stated my feeling. A friend of mine has the Alpha and let me play with it and I thought that it felt like a toy.

During the years that I built prototypes and advised designers on their designs, cameras of different descriptions cam up from time to time. Along with medical equipment, mobile phones, electronic kitchen equipment, tools, computers even bus shelters and Heathrow check in desks. If it's mass produced we prototyped it. This gave me a bit of experience into products that I think gives me some insight into having an opinion on how something handles.
If you know better and can convince then please argue your point.

Or are you justa Sony owner who would hate to admit there is anything wrong with the choice that you are now stuck with?
Jules

shaocaholica wrote:

I would defend any product against wild claims of "feeling like a
toy" with the connotation that it has inferior design without much
thought to real world performance. If you are so experienced in the
matter, you should make more thought out posts because your previous
one did not sound like one coming from a person with the credentials
you just posted and even if you are a seasoned "prototype builder and
model maker in industrial design", that doesn't necessarily make you
an expert on camera structural design unless you deal with similar
items in your line of work. Perhaps you should express your thoughts
with more than just your credentials.

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Black moles do not destroy information.

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: A700 build and feel

Well I disagree with that (the 1st ref below) I have a 20D and feels like a camera, not a toy at all.
jules

Henry Richardson wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

Will this one feel like a toy in your hands like the Alpha?

Here is what someone that had a chance to see and use the A700 had to
say:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=24724852

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=24714104

-- hide signature --

Black moles do not destroy information.

Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,958
Where did he say the 20D feels like a toy?

JulesJ wrote:

Well I disagree with that (the 1st ref below) I have a 20D and feels
like a camera, not a toy at all.

He said this about the A700 and the 20/30/40D:

"It's not a small, discrete camera. It's a workhorse pro camera along the lines of the 20/30/40D built to chew it's way through a wide range of assignments reliably, predictably, and with the highest quality."

Where did he say the 20D feels like a toy?

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: Where did he say the 20D feels like a toy?

My mistake, I agree with him, about the 20D.
Jules

Henry Richardson wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

Well I disagree with that (the 1st ref below) I have a 20D and feels
like a camera, not a toy at all.

He said this about the A700 and the 20/30/40D:

"It's not a small, discrete camera. It's a workhorse pro camera along
the lines of the 20/30/40D built to chew it's way through a wide
range of assignments reliably, predictably, and with the highest
quality."

Where did he say the 20D feels like a toy?

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shaocaholica Contributing Member • Posts: 870
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

JulesJ wrote:

Or are you justa Sony owner who would hate to admit there is anything
wrong with the choice that you are now stuck with?

Why do you insist on tacking this onto your posts? Does it really matter if I own/don't own thing to defend/attack it?

Also, can you explain the metrics of feeling like a toy? Is it weight? Is it the feeling against your skin since plastic absorbs less heat than painted metal? Is it about how much abuse it can take before failing?

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

I attack, you seem to defend. That's life.

Yes to all of those things. Think car and toy car. Do you know the difference apart from the size which is obvious? If so, then that is what I'm talking about.
Jules

shaocaholica wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

Or are you justa Sony owner who would hate to admit there is anything
wrong with the choice that you are now stuck with?

Why do you insist on tacking this onto your posts? Does it really
matter if I own/don't own thing to defend/attack it?

Also, can you explain the metrics of feeling like a toy? Is it
weight? Is it the feeling against your skin since plastic absorbs
less heat than painted metal? Is it about how much abuse it can take
before failing?

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Black moles do not destroy information.

fjbyrne
fjbyrne Veteran Member • Posts: 8,425
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

JulesJ wrote:

I attack, you seem to defend. That's life.
Yes to all of those things. Think car and toy car. Do you know the
difference apart from the size which is obvious? If so, then that is
what I'm talking about.
Jules

You don't carry a car around with you so you like weight for weight sake? Aside from inertia which would help dampen camera shake what does more weight buy you other than tired arms/hands? The A700 by all accounts I've is very solid and built very well. Is the D300 built better or just heavier (btw I have always like the build/feel of Nikon)? I guess we'll have to wait for a comparison review.

I guess you could always hang weights on the A700 to make it not a toy

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fjbyrne

 fjbyrne's gear list:fjbyrne's gear list
Sony a7 III Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony a6000 +14 more
JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,680
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

Ok so you like the camera. I don't let's leave it at that.
Jules

fjbyrne wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

I attack, you seem to defend. That's life.
Yes to all of those things. Think car and toy car. Do you know the
difference apart from the size which is obvious? If so, then that is
what I'm talking about.
Jules

You don't carry a car around with you so you like weight for weight
sake? Aside from inertia which would help dampen camera shake what
does more weight buy you other than tired arms/hands? The A700 by
all accounts I've is very solid and built very well. Is the D300
built better or just heavier (btw I have always like the build/feel
of Nikon)? I guess we'll have to wait for a comparison review.

I guess you could always hang weights on the A700 to make it not a
toy

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Black moles do not destroy information.

fjbyrne
fjbyrne Veteran Member • Posts: 8,425
Don't like does not make it a toy

JulesJ wrote:

Ok so you like the camera. I don't let's leave it at that.
Jules

Well that would be no fun :).

I can completely understand someone not liking a camera. But not liking it and it being a toy are 2 very different things. The D40x is a very entry-level camera. It is all plastic and very menu-oriented. But it is no toy IMO since it can be used to take excellent photographs. Would I buy it? Not likely. I would much rather have a D300 or A700 or 40D. But that doesn't make it a toy.

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fjbyrne

 fjbyrne's gear list:fjbyrne's gear list
Sony a7 III Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony a6000 +14 more
Sarajean Senior Member • Posts: 2,988
wrong...(pic)

CAClark wrote:

I like verything except the styling of the camera, and the thing is
GINORMOUS with the battery grip attached.

You honestly think that is large?

LOL.

SW Kim Regular Member • Posts: 449
This thing

doesnt have a top LCD screen? What in god's name is Sony thinking? lol. Isnt this a prosumer camera? Every pro out there uses that thing to change settings.

This crippled feature looks like its aimed at soccer moms.

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