Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

Started Sep 6, 2007 | Discussions
glasswindow Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Sick of people calling it "the same sensor"

Brad Morris wrote:

Did you notice that the samples are at ISO 100?

The D300 has ISO 200 as the base with 100 as an uncalibrated boost
mode and teh cameras are using basically the same sensor (i think)

They use the same sensor technology, but the sensor for the D300 is far different from the one Sony is using in theirs, obviously.

We went through this last time with the D200/A100 because everybody said it was "the same sensor" when in fact the D200 used a variation on the sensor.

Although with these new Sony sensors, it seems they have made even more differences between the two. I don't think Sony is as concerned with this, they're just happy to make sensors for Nikon. Heck, I would be.

OleThorsen Veteran Member • Posts: 3,111
So does the D300

R Valentino wrote:

then, can it?

Also the Sony offers 1/3 stops from 3200 to 6400, the D300 only
offers a straight 3200 to 6400 HI 1 mode- if I remember correctly.

Both LOW and HI offers 1/3 EV steps on the D300

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cayzi Contributing Member • Posts: 564
Re: Compared to what?

AAK wrote:

11 wide sensors with one "double-cross" center point looks enticing
compared to the D300's 51 points with 15 cross-sensors???

Am asking myself same question. Maybe we will get answer.

fjbyrne
fjbyrne Veteran Member • Posts: 8,425
Re: Sony has ISO 100, D300 starts at 200- can't be the same sensor

R Valentino wrote:

then, can it?

Also the Sony offers 1/3 stops from 3200 to 6400, the D300 only
offers a straight 3200 to 6400 HI 1 mode- if I remember correctly.

Have to wonder which is the better sensor.

Gene

I'm no expert but I read somewhere that the filters in front of the sensor can affect the "native ISO". For example the D70 and KM 7D/5D used the same Sony 6 MP sensor. The D70 started at ISO 200 and the KM cameras started at ISO 100 - apparently due to the filtering. Can anyone elaborate on this or am I full of it?

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cayzi Contributing Member • Posts: 564
Re: So does the D300

OleThorsen wrote:

Both LOW and HI offers 1/3 EV steps on the D300

Am not sure about that.

justahack Senior Member • Posts: 1,130
Re: What do make of this statement?

Yes, you are reading too much into it. It was designed specifically for this camera. Does not mean to the exclusion of use in other cameras.

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Pepe-Lepue Senior Member • Posts: 1,942
Ther's a difference?

200mm wrote:

Happy to see you guys make fair statements about sony's baby...

Please explain the difference between "Nikon Users" and "Canon Users".

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Josh Wolfe Regular Member • Posts: 123
Yawn

Wow... the D300 will have better AF, better glass to use and a pro support system behind it, not to mention decades worth of used glass to tap into.

The 40D is cheaper, also has great glass to support it and CPS is excellent.

Both the D300 and the 40D will do very well in the next year, though I think Nikon has the edge IF they can meet the production demand.

The Sony is kinda cool, but I really don't think it offers anything compelling compared to the proven competition, unless its high ISO images were amazing (which they won't be compared to the other bodies).

BTW, someone mentioned 8 fps not being that big of a deal for the D300... I think it will sell to A LOT of pros based on its AF system and frame rate alone. Remember the legions of pros that used the N90s and F100 over the F4 and F5? Nikon has a lighter, cheaper pro option now, while the 40D, by my estimation is still an amatuer camera.

Josh

Brad Morris Veteran Member • Posts: 4,495
Re: Sick of people calling it "the same sensor"

If you read again, you will see the point I was making was ISO 100 vs ISO 200 as a base setting. Using similar sensor designs, and I cannot imagine that the basic light sensitive area silicon would be too different also meaning that the base ISO of the sensor may well be similar. I am not making comments on the sensors connectivity or A/D design or any other pros or cons of that nature

"Basically the same" does not mean "exactly the same". I have no idea how similar they are however, I am pretty sure that the technology is related.

glasswindow wrote:

Brad Morris wrote:

Did you notice that the samples are at ISO 100?

The D300 has ISO 200 as the base with 100 as an uncalibrated boost
mode and teh cameras are using basically the same sensor (i think)

They use the same sensor technology, but the sensor for the D300 is
far different from the one Sony is using in theirs, obviously.

We went through this last time with the D200/A100 because everybody
said it was "the same sensor" when in fact the D200 used a variation
on the sensor.

Although with these new Sony sensors, it seems they have made even
more differences between the two. I don't think Sony is as concerned
with this, they're just happy to make sensors for Nikon. Heck, I
would be.

thomas2279 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: First A700 samples ...

Quite good and certainly a good indication for the D300 sort of images that we can expect, wish Nikon would be a bit more proactive and plonk some samples when they announced the D3 & D300.

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bimmerman Senior Member • Posts: 2,409
bomb drops but does not blow up...

in fact i won't even call it a bomb. a firecracker maybe. the D300 is the bomb! it blew away my 7 years of Canon gear!!! Now i'm queueing up to get a D300. That's the bomb!

Steve Bingham
Steve Bingham Forum Pro • Posts: 27,675
Got a question or two

1- 14 bit? Doesn't look like it (I know, I know). Wondering about noise and DR. Sony's previous model which was supposed to compete with the D200 . . . couldn't. Much noisier, etc. A far lesser choice.

2- Sensor cleaning?

3- High ISO?

4- 100% viewfinder?

5- Etc, etc, etc

Based on this info, we need to wait for the reports. Once bitten, twice shy.
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200mm Senior Member • Posts: 1,210
Re: Ther's a difference?

Pepe-Lepue wrote:

200mm wrote:

Happy to see you guys make fair statements about sony's baby...

Please explain the difference between "Nikon Users" and "Canon Users".

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I dont need to explain the difference, I can just use you as an exemple.

Roger.

' Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know'

OleThorsen Veteran Member • Posts: 3,111
Re: So does the D300

cayzi wrote:

OleThorsen wrote:

Both LOW and HI offers 1/3 EV steps on the D300

Am not sure about that.

Have you downloaded and read Nikon's official D300 brochure, and read it? I have and here is the info about Sensitivity:

"ISO 200 to 3200 in steps of 1/3, 1/2 or 1 EV with additional settings of approx. 0.3, 0.5, 0.7 and 1 EV (ISO 100 equivalent) under ISO 200 and approx. 0.3, 0.5, 0.7 and 1 EV (ISO 6400 equivalent) over ISO 3200"

That can't be more clear.

Regards
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photo nuts Senior Member • Posts: 1,364
Re: Got a question or two

1- 14 bit?

14 bit may very well be a gimmick. At least 1D MkIII samples do not show any advantage.

2- Sensor cleaning?

It's always there.

3- High ISO?

From some samples on the web, ISO 3200 and above look disappointing.

4- 100% viewfinder?

Yes, merely 95%.

No live view? AF microadjustment? Hmmm...

Sony should price this camera at the D80 level in order to compete effectively.

shaocaholica Contributing Member • Posts: 870
Re: Got a question or two

Steve Bingham wrote:

Sony's previous model which was supposed to compete
with the D200 . . . couldn't. Much noisier, etc. A far lesser choice.

Who ever said the A100 was supposed to compete with the D200?

PhotoTraveler Forum Pro • Posts: 11,700
Re: Sony drops their bomb ---- A700 is here

I was responding to the poster saying A mount and FF will be a problem.

It's not. If A mount and FF was a problem, Nikon wouldn't have been able to even think of Doing FF in F mount.

David SL Veteran Member • Posts: 3,474
couple of assumptions...

KM Glassman wrote:

These sensors are "cousins". Nikon went for speed while Sony went for
higher image quality.

I agree the sensors may be cousins but it assumes that the D300 sensor is NOT Nikon designed as for example the D3 sensor is, we have yet no confirmation for this assumption. If it is a Nikon design it is not likely to be related to the alpha sensor even if Sony is the one that produced it for Nikon. Commonality of production doesn't imply commonality of design in standard chip fabrication (in the same way that a contractor can build a house weather it is designed by architect A or architect B, all he needs to build either are the blue prints).

As for your assertion of image quality differences, what about the announced camera/sensor combination would give you the indication that the alpha will offer better IQ?

Regards,

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OP M-L Senior Member • Posts: 1,117
YOU misread him

azguy wrote:

Taikonaut wrote:

Olles wrote:

The D300 is a bomb camera, and no dout better than sony, but sony now
gave me a decent upgrade to my 7D, which has the things I need.

How do you know? D300 is not even out yet and without hands on review
this is just wild speculation from a fanboy!

You misread him. By "bomb" he meant "terrific," not that the camera
will bomb.

Taikonaut is a Canon fanboy and only come here to post negative comments about Nikon from time to time. Yes, he understood very well bomb meant terrific and that's why he had a problem with that. A fanboy calling others fanboy!! That's funny!!

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Daniel Roos Regular Member • Posts: 243
How can an entry level camera compete?

1) There's only a single dial for both time and aperture like on D40x and 400D entry level cameras

2) There's no top LCD display, just the bottom like on D40x and 400D entry level cameras

3) The camera lacks the dedicated dial for focus method, like on D40x and 400D entry level cameras

...So how can this $1500 entry level camera compete with D40x and 400D?

(not even mentioning the lack of 51 area focus, Expeed, D-lighting, CLS command etc)

You're in the wrong forum. Check the Nikon D80/D70/D50/D40 forum instead.

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