The LiveView Poll

Started Sep 5, 2007 | Discussions
joel avery
joel avery Senior Member • Posts: 1,703
No LiveView, No tilt/flip LCD, No purchase

That's my personal take.

Will it hurt sales? Some, because the competition seems to be picking up on LiveView with every new announcement. The A700 may feel dated by the time its actually available to your average joe standing at the counter at Ritz trying all the new models.

I like LiveView. It's one of the handful of features that my A2 has that keep it a part of my arsenal. You should have seen me yesterday rolling around on the ground trying to get a picture of the weird, red-eyed, grasshopper thingy on the underside of a leaf. With my A2 I could've kept my posture and my dignity as I tried to shoot the thing. With my A100, no dice. Apparently, with A700, still no dice. Bad news for joel*, good news for his chiropractor.

For me, an articulated (at least tilt/flip like the A2) LCD with LiveView will be part of my next purchase. If the wait seems/gets too long then I might add a zigview to my Alpha100 kit and continue on my merry way. It's an in-elegant solution but, what the heck, it will help me do what I want to do.

LiveView has to be experienced to be understood. But as has been said before, LiveView without an articulated LCD is crippled significantly.

There, I've given my 2 cents to you all, and not to Sony for the A700!

joel*

 joel avery's gear list:joel avery's gear list
Sony RX100 II Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony SLT-A77 Sony Alpha a99 Sony a7R II +8 more
John_L Contributing Member • Posts: 551
I don't need Live View

BUT - I do need weatherproofing, which the @700 has. I now have three 7Ds in my car ready to shoot just about any situation I happen upon, but if it's raining, I have to tell the editor sorry, but my cameras are worth more to me than one shot (well, unless it's that once in a lifetime shot)

I'll be adding at least one @700 soon!

John
--

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming, 'WOW! What a ride!!'

My Tools:

KM 7D (3)
Km 5D
Minolta 9
Minolta 7

Lens:
18-70 KM kit lens
19-35 3.5 Tokina
28mm 2.8 Minolta
28-70mm 2.8 Sigma EX
28-85 Minolta
28-105 Minolta
28-135 Minolta
28-300 Tamron
35-70 f4 Minolta (two)
35-105 Minolta
50mm 1.7 Minolta
50mm 2.8 Macro Minolta
70-210 Minolta beercans (two)
70-210 2.8 Vivitar Series 1
70-200 Sigma 2.8 EX
70-300 4.5-5.6 LD Tamron
75-300 Minolta
80-200 zoom xi Minolta
90mm 2.8 Tamron
100 mm 2.8 Minolta Macro
100-200 4.5 Minolta
100-300 4.5 APO Minolta
135 mm 2.8 Minolta
170-500 Sigma
200-400 Tamron
300 mm F4 G Minolta White Lens
500mm Minolta Mirror Lens F8

Ken_5D Forum Pro • Posts: 11,820
Will Canon and Nikon See Live View Dust issues.

I really think it was because many assumed Sony would do this that they both jumped ahead and did it. Of course Sony didn't have the luxury of guessing wrong about its own designs.

THis is my question.

LiveView is key P&S feature because viewfinders suck.. But also keep in mind P&S is a closed lens system.

How much dust can a sensor suck up.. if you have the shutter open all the time?

In a couple months will the Canon/Nikon forums be full of..."How do I clean all the dust" "I ruined my sensor with Windex" posts?

-- hide signature --
WaltKnapp Forum Pro • Posts: 13,857
Re: It does not matter to me but I think it will hurt sales

bobfloyd wrote:

This is not a feature I care about and not a feature that I can even
begin to understand anyone caring about but the fact is that people
do care about. Having shot with both OVF and LiveView, I can't see
anyone thinking LiveView is superior in anyway but there seems to be
a lot of folks out there who do think that and for whom this is,
unfortunately, a deal breaker.

And will any of those folks be buying a advanced Canon or Nikon DSLR (liveview or not)? I don't think so. They will buy some P&S, or a lowest end DSLR as the most they will ever buy. Won't be part of the sales of advanced DSLRs of any type. Don't let their noise in here be any indication of what they actually buy.

Walt

Bill Force
Bill Force Veteran Member • Posts: 6,607
Re: Yes it will hurt sales

Yes, this will be such a MAJOR DISASTER that they will only sell as many as they can produce....tough position to be in, HUH?
--

' You don't have to have the best of everything to get the best out of what you do have'.

BJL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,342
LiveView is easily worth its cost, and almost universal in new DSLRs

I would say that live view is not indispensable, but is easily worth its low cost, which is probably just a matter of firmware once you have a CMOS or NMOS sensor. The Sony alpha-700 probably uses the same live view capable sensor as the Nikon D300.

al1571 wrote:

I wasn't aware that many, percentage-wise, DSlr's had a 'liveview" feature to them. I heard the Evolt line and the new Canon have it and maybe a few more?

Percentage wise, about 90% of recent models.

Live View is offered on all the most recent models from Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, and Fuji (in a rather inferior version), which between them have almost 90% of the DSLR market. Only Sony, Pentax, and Sigma lack live view DSLRs for now.

 BJL's gear list:BJL's gear list
Olympus E-1 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 12-60mm 1:2.8-4.0 SWD +8 more
Ehrik Veteran Member • Posts: 8,014
Yes will hurt sales a bit

Since the competiton will have it: D300, 40D, E-3 (with articulation).

Good for tripod work, precise focus (lens test for measurebators!), odd

angles, live histogram, silent shooting... Specifics will depend on the particular
implementation of course.

There have been many sceptics about Liveview, especially when the E-330
was reviewed here, but with the industry leaders embracing it and more
people getting to try it out, it will gain its fans and they will pop up in
the Sony vs. N/C threads to come and argue the benefits of Liveview.

Given the choice between antishake and liveview I would prefer antishake,
though.

But C/N have their estalished names, very broad lens ranges with offers at
all price levels, big established user base. So to compensate for this,
Sony needs to offer a lot and missing live view from the spec sheet
doesn't help their cause.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

When posting photos for comment, please give basic settings and/or leave EXIF intact.

Cheng Bao Senior Member • Posts: 1,156
Re: The LiveView Poll

Alpha Doug wrote:

Virtually useless toy. When you are in Live View mode on any Canon
or Nikon camera, focusing is done differently (contrast detection)
and is far less accurate than with the mirror down. You get total
blackout while shooting fast, so tracking is near impossible. Hand
held, you better get nothing but image stabilized lenses, cause you
are going to bobble the thing holding it out far enough to view on
the screen. Marketing, marketing, marketing.

On contrary, contrast detection is much accurate than phase detection(traditional SLR), and it could be 100% accurate at any spot on your screen, even top end DSLR could only achieve 51 spots in central area only, and only a few of them are accurate(F2.8 or larger).

One of the drawback of contrast detection AF is the AF speed. That's why ppl want both live view AF and traditional AF, not only one option.

kodakuser Veteran Member • Posts: 6,405
No liveview= non runner in marketplace

yes I know we can all manage without it...but no liveview makes for an obsolete (from a marketing standpoint) model before its even released...I think it is as bad as that
--

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

kodakuser wrote:

yes I know we can all manage without it...but no liveview makes for
an obsolete (from a marketing standpoint) model before its even
released...I think it is as bad as that
--
Sony A100 examples here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

Maybe sony were not expecting the 40D and D300 to have it?

I agree its a tactical error, not a biggie for me, but it makes that higher than 40D price look less reasonable.

But...as time goes on, prices drop, lets see.
--

Clint is on holiday! Soon to return!

LarryMcArdle Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

If we can manage without it, then how exactly does it become 'obsolete'?

My understanding is that something that is usable and useful is not obsolete. An instrument with which we can manage to do our jobs is not, by definition, obsolete.

This is a contradiction - kind of like a 'kodakuser' saying they won't buy a Sony because it's missing some certain individual feature.

Nothing personal, but you could at least change your moniker to Minoltauser or SonyUser!! So you self-identify as a Kodak aficianado, and you're making a big deal about some kinda-sorta-useful feature not available in a Sony?

Were you really GOING to buy the A700, and then - based on specifications that haven't truly been officially released, you're NOT going to buy it based on this one missing feature? AND you're going out shortly to buy a DSLR that WILL have it?

Just curious....

 LarryMcArdle's gear list:LarryMcArdle's gear list
Sony Alpha a99 Sony 135mm F2.8 (T4.5) STF Sony 24mm F2 SSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 +12 more
Jhunter29 Regular Member • Posts: 308
LiveView=For those who like to brag...

Only for people who are more concerned with having more features than the guy beside them. Liveview serves no real purpose. If you can't see thru the VF get glasses. And what happens when your camera with live view dies because of excessive battery drainage? Exactly.. I'll still be taking pictures.

 Jhunter29's gear list:Jhunter29's gear list
Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM II Tokina AT-X Pro 50-135mm f/2.8 DX Tamron SP AF 17-50mm F/2.8 XR Di II LD Aspherical (IF)
kodakuser Veteran Member • Posts: 6,405
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

Oh dear what a silly post...I am a very enthusiastic user of the A100 (actually I own two), I also have a Sony R1...take a look at my samples and my blog...oh and my feature in Davids Photoworld magazine last month on my South West Coast Path walks with the A100

The ONE feature that may have tempted me to upgrade from my A100 was a well implimented live view...I use live view on the R1 and see it as a huge advantage...and ALL DSLRs will eventually have it

I am sure this new cam is great...but its a tough market and people will now expect live view...its the future...if you cant see that, then you have no imagination

LarryMcArdle wrote:

If we can manage without it, then how exactly does it become 'obsolete'?

My understanding is that something that is usable and useful is not
obsolete. An instrument with which we can manage to do our jobs is
not, by definition, obsolete.

This is a contradiction - kind of like a 'kodakuser' saying they
won't buy a Sony because it's missing some certain individual feature.

Nothing personal, but you could at least change your moniker to
Minoltauser or SonyUser!! So you self-identify as a Kodak
aficianado, and you're making a big deal about some
kinda-sorta-useful feature not available in a Sony?

Were you really GOING to buy the A700, and then - based on
specifications that haven't truly been officially released, you're
NOT going to buy it based on this one missing feature? AND you're
going out shortly to buy a DSLR that WILL have it?

Just curious....

-- hide signature --

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

ck3
ck3 Senior Member • Posts: 2,925
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

I think that outlook is a little to grim ;). While I would have liked to see LV myself and I also think that its absence will cost some sales, we should not forget that this is not the entry-level model. A lot of potential buyers have already experience with DSLRs and hence won't think of LV as a do or die feature.
I would be very surprised though if the A100 successor doesn't have LV.

Carsten

OP EgonVLC Regular Member • Posts: 330
Re: The LiveView Poll

If the lack of LV forces de A700 to drop price in order to compete with Canikon, welcome lack of liveview, I won't miss it very much... I'd prefer a cheap A700 without liveview than an expensive one with it.

bobfloyd Regular Member • Posts: 430
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

kodakuser wrote:

The ONE feature that may have tempted me to upgrade from my A100 was
a well implimented live view...I use live view on the R1 and see it
as a huge advantage...and ALL DSLRs will eventually have it

Maybe all DSLRs will eventually have it, although this remains to be seen, but that does not mean it is truly usable in a DSLR now. All the reviews of the implementations of Live View in current DSLRs point that it is a trade off in each and every one of them. In other words, you have to give something up. Until it is proven to be everyday usable in a DSLR with no IQ loss, it is a gimmick to me.

You said it yourself..."well implemented". That is the key and I don't that exists today in any DSLR.

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/bobfloyd

LarryMcArdle Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

Thanks for the kind reply!

My imagination is firmly grounded in realities.....As has been pointed out elsewhere -

I'll be shooting more photos while the Live View addicts are changing their batteries due to running their LCDs 100% of the time....

I'll be enjoying noise-free images while Live View addicts are trying to remove all the noise from their hot sensor that has been running 100% of the time....

I won't be suffering from Carpal Tunnel and other physiological/ergonomic problems caused by holding a heavy DSLR and lens combination out away from my face while trying to focus, frame, compose, and shoot.....

...and the list goes on.

 LarryMcArdle's gear list:LarryMcArdle's gear list
Sony Alpha a99 Sony 135mm F2.8 (T4.5) STF Sony 24mm F2 SSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 +12 more
kodakuser Veteran Member • Posts: 6,405
Re: No liveview= non runner in marketplace

Bob...fair comment, we dont know how well it works on the Nikon/Canon/Panasonic cams yet do we, maybe its not that useable yet...we dont know yet

bobfloyd wrote:

You said it yourself..."well implemented". That is the key and I
don't that exists today in any DSLR.

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/bobfloyd

-- hide signature --

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

WaltKnapp Forum Pro • Posts: 13,857
Re: Carl ....

busch wrote:

I'm well aware of that but the let's see what is in the cards....

Had Sony implemented live view with the A700 I would have taken it as a indication that Sony would next be implementing a LCD in the viewfinder given their history as a P&S camera company and some of the statements out of their management when they took over Minolta DSLR's. And I'm sure I'd not be the only one. Is that the desirable future that advanced DSLR users want? A P&S with interchangable lenses? It would be cheaper and simpler for Sony to make, which is certainly one of their goals. It would also make inevitable the end of the A mount. No optical viewfinder you could come up with a new mount closer to the sensor and shrink the camera size.

Of course that could all be done starting from a P&S easier than from a DSLR. Design in a separation mount for the R1 lens to separate it from the body, then start making lenses for that mount. Trivial really, of course getting anybody to buy it might be interesting. Seeing as how there would still be DSLR's.

And there is a separate group here for Sony P&S. Where it would be more appropriate to discuss such things.

I'm just hoping I can buy another DSLR with a quality optical viewfinder before they go away. Since no one wants optical viewfinders anymore.....And then hoping it will last the rest of my life.

Walt

Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: The LiveView Poll

EgonVLC wrote:

If the lack of LV forces de A700 to drop price in order to compete
with Canikon, welcome lack of liveview, I won't miss it very much...
I'd prefer a cheap A700 without liveview than an expensive one with
it.

With you on that one!

But ahem, this is sony here, they think they can just out price the market leader, and that's ok

Would welcome a LV less sub 40D price camera, aint gonna get it though
--

Clint is on holiday! Soon to return!

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads