Canon UK Response to MkIII

Started Jul 12, 2007 | Discussions
Cymro Regular Member • Posts: 133
Canon UK Response to MkIII

Here is the response I received from Canon UK having questioned the LCD display and the focus issues.........

"Dear Customer,

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding your Canon product.

Thank you for your enquiry on and about the 1d mark 3. There has been much talk about the camera in the AI servo mode and the camera locking on to its subject and getting right frame after frame.

From the responses given by Canon professionals using the camera and our own idea about how the camera works we would like to suggest the following things you might like to try to improve you’re the focus shot rate you are receiving.

Please note these are suggestions to improve your camera setting to possibly achieve better focus results.

Much of the way a photographer uses the camera and what they are used to doing is instinctive and this Canon can’ t change as this is user operation of the camera, however we have provided tools for your customer to enhances the way they can take pictures with the camera and set up the camera you your saved preferences under a user defined.

When the camera is set to AI Servo, we can suggest that you might want to change the following setting. Please try the following suggestions to see if the results you are seeking do improve.

1.

Please press menu> Under the camera tools section move the top dial to the 8th icon.

Here you will need to go down to C.FN III : Focus drive. Press "Set" here you are able to change the focus drive of the camera to speed up or slow down. On our camera here we have set this to "Fast"

2.
Please press the picture styles button on the back of the camera next to the

"Func." Button. Here you are presented with the many picture styles to use with the camera.

Scroll down to User defined 1, press INFO we have found that should you turn up the "Sharpness" of the camera and the "Contrast" there seems to be improvement of the cameras accuracy to lock on to the subject.

3.

Please move to Custom function III: Auto Focus/Drive adjustment - AF Micro Adjustment. Here you will be bale to push or pull you final focus adjustment, should you find that the your camera or lenses are either from or rear focusing then you will be able to pull this focusing to achieve the best focusing results.

Another thing we have noticed her eon the canon UK help desk in our own tests here with this camera system is that the when a single focus point is selected if the focus point is not on a solid colour or tone then the focus will flicker between two different focus points.

If you are using the Ai focus, you could possibly have situations were the focus will not be confirmed, this is effect that is not different to any other of our camera systems you can could possibly see that when using high speed shooing may flag up these results more. In the advice 2. above suggests above where selecting sharpens and contrast should help to determine the edge of the subject and either drop the subject in focus or out or focus.

Much of the advice given above is subject the Canon UK Technical Help Desk tests and are recommendations to try but not fool proof answers to your problems.

However should you find that you are having issues with the camera and the way it is working then we can only suggest that you my want to get the unit serviced at the Canon UK service centre.

Should you want to talk this though with the Help Desk team then please call the Canon UK help desk on 08705143723 and ask for your call to be escalated to the Canon UK helpdesk team Please also provide the reference number 3866765.

This information is not Canons own suggestions and we are not responsible for the results what are stated.

http://www.birdsasart.com/bn235.htm this is not Canon information but mealy their own advise and what they are finding with the 1d mark III.

With regards to the LCD sharpness once the user has zoomed in to its fullest zoom there are two things are being looked at here.

The first being the sharpness of the LCD you are viewing the second the amount of zoom that is you are looking at on the LCD monitor compared to the actual file resolution.

After making some tests if you fully zoom in to the centre of the picture we feel that you are looking further then 1.1 and indeed are looking at a very close view of the image and perhaps this means that you are looking at the out side of the pixels on the file, which is further than the normally suggested, to clarify focus.

Much in the same way you view images on a monitor with Photoshop we can consider that Photoshop it is very good to view a final image at 100% as anything else is an interpretation of the final file data.

At this kind of zoomed view the very edges of the pixels will look blurred when in combination with an LCD. It is possible that this could be the problem that you are seeing.

Canon can only suggest that we have made great improvements in this area in the last few years and are strived to improved this all the time however the issues faced are LCD resolution, and the interoperated resolution of the shot file.

We can only suggest the viewed image is an interpolation of the original file, and is used as a guide for exposure and focus checking however, to truly make sure of the exact focus we can only recommend that you view the images on your own system computer system and if need in a printed form.

Should you believe there is an issue with the cameras LCD or the Cameras processing then we advise that you send the camera in to the Canon Service centre for a complete check up.

Yours sincerely,

Canon Support Centre"

Kier Contributing Member • Posts: 541
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

Scroll down to User defined 1, press INFO we have found that should you
turn up the "Sharpness" of the camera and the "Contrast" there seems
to be improvement of the cameras accuracy to lock on to the subject.

When you get responses like this you have to wonder what idiot is writing these suggestions - all picture style adjustments are made POST CAPTURE and have absolutely no bearing on the autofocus system.

FretNoMore Veteran Member • Posts: 7,729
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

Kier wrote:

Scroll down to User defined 1, press INFO we have found that should you
turn up the "Sharpness" of the camera and the "Contrast" there seems
to be improvement of the cameras accuracy to lock on to the subject.

When you get responses like this you have to wonder what idiot is
writing these suggestions - all picture style adjustments are made
POST CAPTURE and have absolutely no bearing on the autofocus system.

Pictures styles affect AF performance? Yes, that's new one.

Kier Contributing Member • Posts: 541
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

It beggars belief that this sort of advice is being given out by Canon (UK) support - how can they expect professional photographers to give credence to anything they recommend when they come out with such drivel?

The advice they give on the LCD issue is almost as useless as that on the focus issue, not to mention the fact that the LCDs on all other Canon DSLRs are perfectly adequate for checking focus, it's just the 1D3 that has the issue.

I am preparing an email for CPS (UK) that unequivocably demonstrates that the 1D3 (or at least, MY one) has serious auto focus issues - at least CPS listen and try to offer the best advice available to them rather than fobbing-off customers with rubbish.

AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 61,428
Jeez - Homer REALLY does work for Canon !!

When you get responses like this you have to wonder what idiot is
writing these suggestions

Jeez - Homer REALLY does work for Canon !! I was only Joking in the P&S forum about it !!

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Ghozer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,863
Not to mention...

...the recommendation regarding the AI Focus AF setting which, of course, doesn't exist on the Mark III.

Kier wrote:

Scroll down to User defined 1, press INFO we have found that should you
turn up the "Sharpness" of the camera and the "Contrast" there seems
to be improvement of the cameras accuracy to lock on to the subject.

When you get responses like this you have to wonder what idiot is
writing these suggestions - all picture style adjustments are made
POST CAPTURE and have absolutely no bearing on the autofocus system.

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AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 61,428
Now you know

What we have to put up with over here - Thankfully there are TWO excellent approved service agents (Fixation and Lehmanns) here who actually know how to fix cameras and don't hire ex-employees from Billy Smarts Circus, so dealing with Canon UK themselves thankfully isn't necessary ......... Canon UK used to be a good reason to buy Nikon

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Sam Jones Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

Cymro wrote:

Here is the response I received from Canon UK having questioned the
LCD display and the focus issues.........

I presume that you have made this up for a forum laugh?

mark Bedwani Regular Member • Posts: 382
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

Scroll down to User defined 1, press INFO we have found that should you
turn up the "Sharpness" of the camera and the "Contrast" there seems
to be improvement of the cameras accuracy to lock on to the subject.

HAHAHahhahhaah that is the funniest thing I have ever read... Either they are clutching at straws because they have no clue what's going on... OR they have never used a Canon dSLR before...

How can picture styles affect focus when picture styles is applied in camera AFTER the Shot has been taken.... hahahaha

After reading this reply from them... I'm afraid it's very obvious they have no clue what they are doing with a dSLR...

This also adds to the growing silence from Canon about this issue...

I bet this issue will haunt future models too....

very funny.. and SAD at he same time.. hehehe

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Pixelair Forum Member • Posts: 88
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

Don't bother contacting CPS, I already have.
This was the reply to my question :

"Have you got a problem with the focus on 1d Mk3"

""We are not aware of any known product issues at the moment,
user misunderstandings maybe but not actual quantifiable faults. ""

So there you go then !

I must admit I've found no problems with mine (so far) but I rarely use
fast servo,... just centre af point no Cfn's, also must report that whilst
out with the camera last Saturday I met another chap with a mk3 and
asked if he'd had any issues with the focus he said,.... what issues !
All these reports have given me doubts about the camera though and
surely you can't have so much smoke without a fire !
Regards

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Regards

PhotoKhan Forum Pro • Posts: 11,628
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

As already stated by others, this reply is a through-out riot of laughter.

However, I find that the part that really provides an opportunity to "grab them by the balls" is this one:

Another thing we have noticed her eon the canon UK help desk in our
own tests here with this camera system is that the when a single
focus point is selected if the focus point is not on a solid colour
or tone then the focus will flicker between two different focus
points.

If I was you, I would contact them again (this time by registered mail), quoting the statement above and candidly asking:

"Am I to understand that your product AF only works, under the described conditions, if a specific scene contains the stated solid colors or tones?"

If they are not careful with the reply, as a consummer, you'll have everything you need to claim that "the product is not fit for the intended purpose".

This is a concept that, under EU consumer law, is a very powerful tool to make them pay close attention to any further exchanges about the subject.

PK

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FretNoMore Veteran Member • Posts: 7,729
I would expect the opposite to be true

PhotoKhan wrote:
As already stated by others, this reply is a through-out riot of
laughter.

However, I find that the part that really provides an opportunity to
"grab them by the balls" is this one:

Another thing we have noticed her eon the canon UK help desk in our
own tests here with this camera system is that the when a single
focus point is selected if the focus point is not on a solid colour
or tone then the focus will flicker between two different focus
points.

If I was you, I would contact them again (this time by registered
mail), quoting the statement above and candidly asking:

"Am I to understand that your product AF only works, under the
described conditions, if a specific scene contains the stated solid
colors or tones?"
...

If a focus point is in total covered by a solid color that would be a low contrast target and I would expect the camera to have problems with that. If it on the other hand is positioned over a non-solid color the system would have some contrast to work with. So, if I'm not misunderstanding this then that statement from the "help desk" is bogus too.

I hope this whole thing is a joke so Canon UK isn't one.

PhotoKhan Forum Pro • Posts: 11,628
Yes, of course...

...still, an excellent opportunity to make them pay close attention...

This whole business is becoming funnier (...or sadder...) by the minute. At this level they have clearly no clue of what is going on and, quite frankly, that is kind of expectable.

It's the silence from the "mother ship" that is becoming deafening...

PK

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Mknox Forum Member • Posts: 94
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

From a consumer point of view, this is unacceptable for a $4500 piece of equipment.

From Canon's point of view, they're probably not sure how to deal with it as the fix would entail a full recall, and stand to lose reputation on their premier line of cameras. It seems as if they might try to ride this storm out by blaming it on the subject matter that is being photographed (subjects with low contrast or whatever), thus indirectly blaming the consumer for the fault, and hoping this would lessen the impact on consumer perception -- or maybe stalling for a "magical firmware update" (not sure how much this would help though).

Obviously, more time should have been spent on the AI Focusing issues prior to release -- certainly when it was a noted concern from Rob Galbraith and others were had the opportunity to "beta-test" a pre-production model. It's better to "make sure" the model lives up to it's promises, even if it entails a 3- or 6-month delay. Not sure why Canon would choose the route of impatience rather than setting a new standard of excellence.

Canon certainly has a significant investment in this model as well (design, production that is still going on to this minute despite reported hardware faults, etc.), and I'm sure it's a magnificent piece of machinery to behold, but geez it's GOT to do what it's touted to do if they want to avoid a backlash from so many pros who had (past-tense) enough faith in Canon to make such an investment.

Lesson learned is to wait 6 months after release to make sure most serious bugs are worked out, but that does little to console current pros who have dropped a fair amount of money into an undelivered promise.

There maybe enough leverage for a class action suite here...

AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 61,428
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

they are clutching at straws because they have no clue what's going
on... OR they have never used a Canon dSLR before...

This is Canon UK so Likely the Latter

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David J. Littleboy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,317
It's worse than you think...

FretNoMore wrote:

Kier wrote:

Scroll down to User defined 1, press INFO we have found that should you
turn up the "Sharpness" of the camera and the "Contrast" there seems
to be improvement of the cameras accuracy to lock on to the subject.

When you get responses like this you have to wonder what idiot is
writing these suggestions - all picture style adjustments are made
POST CAPTURE and have absolutely no bearing on the autofocus system.

Pictures styles affect AF performance? Yes, that's new one.

They're hoping that if you crank the sharpness, you won't notice that the focus is off.

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Tokyo, Japan

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Sam Jones Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

Cymro wrote:

Here is the response I received from Canon UK having questioned the
LCD display and the focus issues.........

Cymro

Have you made this up for a joke or not?

AKaz Regular Member • Posts: 258
Oh that's comforting..

The camera can not focus on multiple colors... I can not believe they would make that statement...

Also we should have known there was a reason for Canon to add lens adjustment to the camera. It seems the camera will only focus on a solid color, this explains while most of these shots with people on grass the camera is either front or back focusing on the grass, Solid Green Color... So in order to use the camera correctly, you need to take a picture, then look in your 3" lcd to see were it is front or back focusing, make the adjustment and then shoot. Well your going to need 10fps to catch up on all the actioned you missed adjusting your lens to every different condition.

I must be understanding this wrong, because that is pure ridiculous to have to go through that all the time.

Anyway, i am glad i sold mine, maybe this is why every time i used a single focus point, regardless of the metering modes, my images were out of focus.

I wish i had the chance now to play with the camera just to see that if i used multiple focusing points if the pictures would then be sharp and have no front or back focusing issues.

Then using this method would though so much for the speed of auto focus when using a lens that does not auto focus fast to begin with, like the 85MM F1.2 or the 180 Macro, among others..

Another thing we have noticed her eon the canon UK help desk in our
own tests here with this camera system is that the when a single
focus point is selected if the focus point is not on a solid colour
or tone then the focus will flicker between two different focus
points.

OP Cymro Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Canon UK Response to MkIII

This is a 100% genuine reply from Canon UK and if you wish I can give you the case number!! I could not believe what I was reading and it eventually made me laugh but not before a cold shiver went down my spine!!!!

dnjake Senior Member • Posts: 2,702
Yes But

Cymro wrote:

This is a 100% genuine reply from Canon UK and if you wish I can give
you the case number!! I could not believe what I was reading and it
eventually made me laugh but not before a cold shiver went down my
spine!!!!

The basic reality is that in a situation like this the regional marketing and service organizations get left twisting in the wind. Probably some kind of instruction has come down the management chain to try to make the best of what can be done with the custom settings and trying to educate the user. Very possibly the newest hire in the organization got stuck with the unattractive job of trying to make this approach work. Given the apparent close to zero availability of the camera, it is pretty clear that Canon does not really expect this approach to work. But the people at bottom of the organization get stuck doing the best they can.
--
David Jacobson
http://www.pbase.com/dnjake

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