Nikon & Sony rumours

Started May 18, 2007 | Discussions
CDBrugg New Member • Posts: 16
Nikon & Sony rumours

I must apologise if the following has already been posted here/is old hat or if this should have been posted elsewhere

According to the French magazine ‘Réponses Photo’ (issue 183 June 2007), Nikon will soon bring out a new ‘pro’ camera, suitable both for studio and for photojournalism. It will be available around the same time as the Rugby World Cup later this year (early autumn?).

The part of the story that will interest this forum is as follows: this new camera will use a 18.7MP sensor made by Sony, slightly smaller than FF (x1.1) thus allowing further use of the classic F mount. As was the case for the D200, Nikon will have exclusive use of this sensor for 12 months.

I have no idea how reliable/useful this info is for those of us waiting for the new Sony models.

Charles

Craig Veteran Member • Posts: 5,911
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

the 1.1 lens factor sounds fine, but 19 meg????

I shoot about a 1000 shots for my weddings, oh boy can't wait to fill more hard drives with that..

I am doing fine with my 6 megp 7d.s. 8 meg raw files are plenty big enough for what I do.

I saw 12 megp is more than enough resolution that anybody needs.

tweedle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

CDBrugg wrote:

According to the French magazine ‘Réponses Photo’ (issue 183 June
2007), Nikon will soon bring out a new ‘pro’ camera [...]
this new camera will use a 18.7MP sensor made by Sony, slightly
smaller than FF (x1.1) [...] Nikon will have exclusive use
of this sensor for 12 months.

Could mean, that we will all have to wait for the flagship model untill early autumn 2008?

nemofin Contributing Member • Posts: 739
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

why do you think Sony pro model will use the same sensor?

futile32 Senior Member • Posts: 1,854
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

hopefully sony will keep the good stuff for us

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thomas2279 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

Interesting article hopefully Nikon will put out 2 FF models one like the 1ds mk 2 & the other 5d so people on a slightly more restrictive budget can dive into FF without breaking the bank or risk being divorced.

I am Sony will announce a FF / 1.1x model as well this year along with an update to their good Alpha A100 (good price now) and hopefully the lenses will come down in price (especially in UK) to be on par with Canon & Nikon.
--

tweedle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

nemofin wrote:

why do you think Sony pro model will use the same sensor?

We saw it before. Could happen again. Remains to be seen.

T Mobile Forum Member • Posts: 72
Sony gives the 1.1x to Nikon and keeps the 1.0x ...

to themselves. SO CDI is right, Nikon has the exclusive rights over a smaller sensor for 12 months. LOL

nemofin wrote:

why do you think Sony pro model will use the same sensor?

David Haslam Senior Member • Posts: 2,099
Re: Same sensor

The development costs of these large sensors is very high. You just need to look at the time it has taken for the FF sensors to appear. This is coupled with quite small sales volumes in comparison to small sensors and other electronic products. Still it is strange that Sony would give away exclusive rights to such an important asset since they need to establish their own range as soon as possible.
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Paulo Ferreira
Paulo Ferreira Senior Member • Posts: 1,883
I said it all here

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=23145014
and a few months before.

1.1 is because of Anti-shake device. Nikon does not have it so they loos full frame... but hey if they want one they have to start doing their own sensors. It is good news for Nikon (and for Sony because "they're in the $$$$")
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Paulo Ferreira
Paulo Ferreira Senior Member • Posts: 1,883
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

thomas2279 wrote:

Interesting article hopefully Nikon will put out 2 FF models one
like the 1ds mk 2 & the other 5d so people on a slightly more
restrictive budget can dive into FF without breaking the bank or
risk being divorced.

I am Sony will announce a FF / 1.1x model as well this year along
with an update to their good Alpha A100 (good price now) and
hopefully the lenses will come down in price (especially in UK) to
be on par with Canon & Nikon.

That is an "old fact". The lenses is a bit more difficult... I think that they are following the thought of Minolta - the pro bodies are cheaper, lighter and as well if not more performant than Nikon and Canon... the lenses are always more expensive. Some pro magazines were quite derisory regarding the price of Minolta lenses but you get what you pay for ie outstanding quality. I hope Sony will keep the tradition because if the body is performant and less $3000 than a Canon you have some lee way to pay more for a better 300mm, 500mm or 70-200 SSM. it all adds up the same in the end albeit you will get a better gear al round.
Prices on brands were always a bit like
Leica (bespoken made by Minolta)
Contax
Minolta
Nikon
Canon

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dnjake Senior Member • Posts: 2,702
Rumors, Rumors, More Rumors

David Haslam wrote:

The development costs of these large sensors is very high. You
just need to look at the time it has taken for the FF sensors to
appear. This is coupled with quite small sales volumes in
comparison to small sensors and other electronic products.
Still it is strange that Sony would give away exclusive rights to
such an important asset since they need to establish their own
range as soon as possible.
--

There is a long history of Nikon rumors that have been discussed at length by people with some real credibility before they evaporated in the mist to be followed by a new set. These new ones could have some merit and it will not be surprising if Nikon does introduce a full frame professional camera at some point. But Nikon has been doing quite well with its crop cameras. In any case, there is not much potential for a professional grade camera to have a big impact on the bottom line.

As far as agreements between Sony and Nikon go, the source of the rumor certainly has no knowledge of either future or past agreements. This kind of information is never made public. Some people think they know and they might have made the right guess. But then again they might not.

For Sony, a full frame camera is even less of an urgent issue then it is for Nikon. Its quite possible that the professional camera will be full frame. It might even arrive next year. But then again it might never arrive. If Sony really does have a committed plan for it, they will probably have avoided a conflict in whatever agreement they have made with Nikon. In any case a professional camera has even much less prospect of contributing anything significant to Sony's bottom line than it does to Nikon's. If it arrives, it will be more of a technology demonstration than a profit maker.
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gtiguy Regular Member • Posts: 285
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

so if the newer models go to FF sensors, my 18-200 kit lens and my zeiss 16-80 will not work with these sensors? 19mp would provide some massive resolution!
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dnjake Senior Member • Posts: 2,702
The bigger issue

High ISO sensitivity is a much bigger issue for both Sony and Nikon than sensor size. The complaint about the D2X is almost always the noise at high iso. Sony's urgent problem is positioning the semi pro camera against the Canon 30D and it is hard to see how they are going to do it without narrowing the gap on high ISO sensitivity. Neither Nikon nor Sony will compete with the Canon 5D unless they match it on noise since low noise is the 5D characteritic that is most valued. Moreover, even with its 1.3 crop factor, the 1D Mark III may well be a significant improvement on the 5D. Unless Sony can overcome the noise differential with its new sensors, a full frame sensor will not do much to imrprove the competitive position of either Sony or Nikon. It does seem fairly clear that whatever improvements Sony's new sensors do show, Nikon is not going to get a year's exclusive access to them. We should see them in the cropped Sony semi-pro camera sometime in the next few months.
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Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,372
Rumors go full circle

Started at dPreview (at least the 18MP 1.1X concept as an idea to make sensors without having to expose multiple times using the best of class steppers/imagers in fabrication hence increasing yield and lowering costs) on the Nikon forum, went to a French mag and now back to dPreview.

Got to love it...

Steven

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Chad Marek Senior Member • Posts: 1,550
Re: The bigger issue

dnjake wrote:

Unless Sony
can overcome the noise differential with its new sensors, a full
frame sensor will not do much to imrprove the competitive position
of either Sony or Nikon.

The fastest way to lower noise is to reduce the pixel density. The best way to do that and maintain a competitive pixel count is to increase the sensor size.

Because of this, the strong councensious among the D2x users is that a FF sensor is badly, badly needed.

chad

thomas2279 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

Hopefully Sony & Nikon would have a feature in the camera to detect Digital lenses and reduce the crop to Aps-c size, thus allowing you use your Aps lenses but at a reduced image size.

So if Nikon came out with a 18mp FF Camera the Aps lens would render 8mp (2.25 crop factor size between Aps size sensor and FF) not bad...

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dkloi Senior Member • Posts: 1,915
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

Hopefully Sony & Nikon would have a feature in the camera to detect
Digital lenses and reduce the crop to Aps-c size, thus allowing you
use your Aps lenses but at a reduced image size.

Since the image circles of reduced-crop lenses vary from lens to lens (some APS-C zooms lenses cover a 43.3mm image circle at their longer end, some others never do), it'd be better to let the photographer choose in post-processing exactly what they want to include in the final frame. One person's adequate edge performance is another's abysmal.

So if Nikon came out with a 18mp FF Camera the Aps lens would
render 8mp (2.25 crop factor size between Aps size sensor and FF)
not bad...

Crop factors are usually expressed as linear reduction in sensor dimensions, not areal.

Cheers,
Daniel.

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Backdoctor
Backdoctor Forum Pro • Posts: 13,908
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

CDBrugg wrote:

I must apologise if the following has already been posted here/is
old hat or if this should have been posted elsewhere

According to the French magazine ‘Réponses Photo’ (issue 183 June
2007), Nikon will soon bring out a new ‘pro’ camera, suitable both
for studio and for photojournalism. It will be available around the
same time as the Rugby World Cup later this year (early autumn?).

The part of the story that will interest this forum is as follows:
this new camera will use a 18.7MP sensor made by Sony, slightly
smaller than FF (x1.1) thus allowing further use of the classic F
mount. As was the case for the D200, Nikon will have exclusive use
of this sensor for 12 months.

why would sensor size limit use of the F mount? Last I remembered my Nikon N6006 using "film" was full frame...

I have no idea how reliable/useful this info is for those of us
waiting for the new Sony models.

Charles

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dkloi Senior Member • Posts: 1,915
Re: Nikon & Sony rumours

why would sensor size limit use of the F mount? Last I remembered
my Nikon N6006 using "film" was full frame...

Not to mention the Kodak SLRs in Nikon mount which also had 36mm by 24mm sensors.

Cheers,
Daniel.

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