New Sony

Started May 16, 2007 | Discussions
Dan Pidcock Senior Member • Posts: 1,915
Why don't you like a top LCD?

I find it very useful. e.g. I can see the general exposure of the scene before bringing the camera up to my eye and see if I will need to change ISO etc.

Also when changing settings on the camera I find it more natural to hold the camera with lens pointing outwards than facing the floor.

Being able to always see the camera settings without having to turn the back LCD on and the resulting battery drain is also a big benefit.

Dan
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jamesdak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,858
Re: Wonder why the separate vertical grip...But

Legacy- Who are you responding too in your post? Hard to tell by the way it's all chopped up.

Legacys_Quest7 wrote:

jamesdak wrote:

don't you think that it's better to have the option vs permanent
attachment? I say this because there are mixed opinons about the
grip. If you leave it as a option, this is a win, win deal for
both. You get the grip and the others who prefer not to use it
won't have to deal with it. Imo, this a good marketing strategy.

David Kilpatrick wrote:

tsg wrote:

They do look nice, but I find it a little surprising that the PRO
wouldn't have the vertical grip as part of the camera - like
Canikon. I think being able to shoot vertical would be a pretty
standard PRO idea...

For which you do not need, and never have needed, a vertical grip.
I hate needless bulk in cameras and I would hate Sony to follow the
Canon ideal of making a huge brick of a thing, and no choice but to
lug it everywhere. An optional vertical grip is a much better idea
as it allows you to travel light and work unobtrusively, or take
portraits without confronting the sitter with a camera bigger than
your own face.

David

I've gotta disagree a bit here. While I too prefer the removable
grip I do consider it a need. I like to shoot verticals a lot
during sporting events and being able to properly position my hand
via a vertical grip greatly keeps down the fatique factor for me.
Also allows me to more smoothly and accurately pan to follow the
action.

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Long live the HMS Beagle

jamesdak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,858
Re: Wonder why the separate vertical grip...

I agree!
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Long live the HMS Beagle

Dat Ei Senior Member • Posts: 1,224
Re: Why don't you like a top LCD?

Hey Dan,

Dan Pidcock wrote:

I find it very useful. e.g. I can see the general exposure of the
scene before bringing the camera up to my eye and see if I will
need to change ISO etc.
Also when changing settings on the camera I find it more natural to
hold the camera with lens pointing outwards than facing the floor.
Being able to always see the camera settings without having to turn
the back LCD on and the resulting battery drain is also a big
benefit.

if you look at the D7D design you´ll see why the D7D did not need the top level lcd. The D7D had a separat ISO control button. You could change the ISO or exposure/flash compensation without taking the cam from your eyes and control your changes in the viewfinder.

Dat Ei
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Rather a wodden mockup in the showcase than a rumour in the web...
2007 - it's time for a decision...
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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Wonder why the separate vertical grip...

Greg Beetham wrote:

Sorry I think having such a large lump of debris permanently
attached to the camera is a crock, as is the top LCD panel.
Copying Nikon and Canon outdated styles doesn't mean you have
automatically invented a "Pro" camera.
For the life of me, I do not understand why Sony would even
consider a stupid LCD panel on the top when Minolta already have
shown how to lay out a DSLR properly (they only forgot to make the
rear screen hinge out). Actually some of the latest offerings from
the opposition have begun to follow KM's lead on this, so why would
Sony go backwards?
Greg

Pretty much agree on this.....

I dont care for a permanent VG attached..make it an option.

I also dont care for the styling...a you say......why copy Canon? People are going to come to a mount looking for something a bit "different".......

If sony dont put the twin dials back..and carry on with this ugly mother...I am likely to wander to pastures new.
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svensven Contributing Member • Posts: 925
Re: New Sony

I Hope they don't use a vertical grip like that picture shows. Those minolta/sony grips with the shutter half-way up the grip feel terrible- at least for me they feel extremely clumsy. Why cant they just make a standard grip like they used to:

The camera feels much more stable to and comfortable to me with these standard grips.

Jojakim wrote:

Would the chunky prism be of the same size as the 100% viewfinder
of the Dynax 9?

Then they might as well have put a little flash on there to trigger
wireless flashes without an adapter. And as for the design, the
pentaprism shape is kind of a weird part. It might have looked
better with a small flash on top.

dalen7 Regular Member • Posts: 222
Re: Wonder why the separate vertical grip...

tsg wrote:

They do look nice, but I find it a little surprising that the PRO
wouldn't have the vertical grip as part of the camera - like
Canikon. I think being able to shoot vertical would be a pretty
standard PRO idea...

In all honesty, its ugly and bulky - manily bulky (that is the canon 1ds and 1d).
So I would prefer my 'pro' camera not coming as a 'chunky monkey'.

Peace
--
sony alpha 100 * SAL 18-70mm

Greg Beetham
Greg Beetham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,008
Re: Why don't you like a top LCD?

It's just that I have never needed much of an excuse to use a tripod, there's always one not far away, even when I'm in the bush, and I can't see much use for any top panel LCD when the camera is on a tripod, but then you are stuck with the camera ergonomics having been organized around using the thing.

There is an argument for it I guess as you say, if the lens is light enough to permit the camera to stay flat against your body but most of mine seem to make the camera hang down so the rear screen is up.

It remains to be seen if the addition of a double battery grip will alter the balance back the other way.

I'm also just trying to imagine what a cumbersome lump this would be with a 56 flash or macro ringflash attached as well.
Greg

David Kilpatrick Veteran Member • Posts: 5,436
Re: Why don't you like a top LCD?

Dan Pidcock wrote:

I find it very useful. e.g. I can see the general exposure of the
scene before bringing the camera up to my eye and see if I will
need to change ISO etc.
Also when changing settings on the camera I find it more natural to
hold the camera with lens pointing outwards than facing the floor.
Being able to always see the camera settings without having to turn
the back LCD on and the resulting battery drain is also a big
benefit.

A top LCD would be fine if you could switch to put the data on the back screen when required. When the camera is mounted vertically - and this discussion has said loads about portrait shooting - the top LCD is round the left hand side and it's much harder to turn the camera sideways to view it. The back screen just reformats the data for a perfect view. When the camera is on a tripod for architectural work or seeing above crowds, obstacles etc - frequently at or above eye level, you can't see the top LCD at all and have no idea what adjustments you are making (we found this a real pain with the Mamiya ZD which, of course, is exactly the kind of camera used on a tripod most of the time). It can also be a nuisance on a copy stand (you can always see the rear screen but ducking down to view the top LCD is awkward), and finally, when shooting normally, you have to drop the camera down from your eye to make adjustments, while I only have to move the camera forward a bit retaining my aim at the subject.

I have good eyesight in terms of sharpness but very poor accommodation and the tiny symbols used right next to the edge of the Fuji S5/Nikon D200 top LCD are actually not clear to me with or without specs. They are too small to be clear at a glance. The Dynax/Sony rear screen display, in contrast, is legible without removing my normal (corrected for distance) specs. I don't have to lift my specs or even force myself to refocus my eyes, as everything is perfectly clear without correction.

David

fjbyrne
fjbyrne Veteran Member • Posts: 8,425
Do people really care how they look?

I've seen a lot of comments regarding how ugly these cameras are. Does it really matter if they have the desired performance? Would you NOT but one simply based on the looks?

I'll take function over form but I wouldn't mind both

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fjbyrne

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tweedle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
What Sony explained---

Chad Marek wrote:

What Sony has not explained in any detail is whether their flagship
will be a 1D/D2 level camera, or a Canon 5D/Nikon D200 level camera.

I am sure these will be very competent cameras. I am not sure the
flagship will be a 1D / D2 slayer.

Actually I think Sony did explain about this, and the new flagship will not become a 1D/D2 equivalent.

This is what Mr. Toru Katsumoto, the CEO of Sony's dslr division, said in an interview with DC Watch at the recent PMA:

Q: Up until now Sony has said they wouldn’t be making a product for the pro market. When you say “a body that would stand up to the requirements of professional use” do you mean a truly professional oriented model, or do you mean a product that matches the specs of a pro model?

A: The term “professional use” can mean a lot of things. Different applications require different capabilities and functions. When we say “a body that would stand up to the requirements of professional use” that is exactly what we mean. This is a top end product that any pro could use and be satisfied. But we are not labeling this product as being exclusively geared towards professionals only. This is our top end product that will meet the needs of any user wanting specs and functions that are even higher than the high amateur model.

That's about as clear as it gets at this stage, isn't it?

Full English translation:

http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12704&PN=1

Original interview in Japanese:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/other/2007/03/10/5788.html

Greg Beetham
Greg Beetham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,008
Re: Do people really care how they look?

As someone remarked once before (on another thread) "Just give us a Dynax 9 with a sensor and a rear screen". Probably doesn't address a host of engineering problems but it sounded good to me.
Greg

tweedle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: OK you are right: timeless and classic

luc0815 wrote:

Looks like we might have to wait for Apple or Leica and the next
Panasonic to build a good looking DSLR ???? ????

The iBrick, perhaps?

Still, I haven't given up on Sony yet. They did a very good job on the R1 as well as the H7/9, I think. Even the minor design update on the KM 5D gave the Alpha 100 quite some impact.

tweedle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: New Sony

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

If sony do a Canon....I am outta here! If I want canon..I will go
buy one......

I am not sure what you might think is so Canon about these new cameras.

The peaky prism house in the flagship model is rather retro than Canon. Most SLR's had a prism of this kind for a long period well into the 70'es.

When SLR's became more electronic, manufacturers tended to pack a lot of the electronics into the prism house, so the grew to be chunkier.

Personally, I like the flagship model to be a little different with its own personality amongst DSRL's.

(The prism of the KM 9D reminds me of a cold war era Eastern German Praktica camera to me .... tank-like, you say? well, absolutely right)

tweedle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: Pro has a flash shoe

Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

New picture of the pro model shows a flash shoe.

What new picture excactly?

Greg Beetham
Greg Beetham Veteran Member • Posts: 4,008
Re: Pro has a flash shoe

I couldn't say where the picture is but I saw one looking down on the "Flagship"model and the regular KM i shoe mount was there on the rear of the pentaprism housing, if we are talking about flash mounts that is,(I'm not sure how that happened)

Actually my first impression of the appearance of this camera was that it looked sort of Pentax 6X7 ish.
Greg

AWChan Regular Member • Posts: 138
Re: What Sony explained---

Thanks for posting the link.

Come on Sony ... where is the full-frame dSLR! LOL it would save me money on buying wide angle lens but I bet I have to dig deep in my pockets to buy the body

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Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: New Sony

tweedle wrote:

I am not sure what you might think is so Canon about these new
cameras.

.....top lcd...back controls look similar.

Hmm its canon ish if you get what I mean.

The peaky prism house in the flagship model is rather retro than
Canon. Most SLR's had a prism of this kind for a long period well
into the 70'es.

That was then this is now...I dont really care if the on body controls are good.

When SLR's became more electronic, manufacturers tended to pack a
lot of the electronics into the prism house, so the grew to be
chunkier.

Its possible to design a flat top shall we say. I wouldnt mind an onboard flash too.

Personally, I like the flagship model to be a little different with
its own personality amongst DSRL's.

Well lets see..

(The prism of the KM 9D reminds me of a cold war era Eastern German
Praktica camera to me .... tank-like, you say? well, absolutely
right)

THe 9 is a work of art....and build is superb. I really like it.....anything that apes it is a step in the right direction...great handling camera..so is the 7, film and digital.

Sony MUST stick to the minolta thinking of on body controls...IMHO.

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Chad Marek Senior Member • Posts: 1,550
Re: What Sony explained---

I remember seeing that translation right around PMA, or statements from a Sony exec very, very similar to that.

Unfortunately, I think the interpretation of those statements in this forum are that the Flagship will have all the features and performance of the Canon and Nikon Pro lines.

Largely, I think this will turn out to be "optimistic."

chad

Barry Fitzgerald Forum Pro • Posts: 29,888
Re: Do people really care how they look?

Greg Beetham wrote:

As someone remarked once before (on another thread) "Just give us a
Dynax 9 with a sensor and a rear screen". Probably doesn't address
a host of engineering problems but it sounded good to me.
Greg

It sounded good to me also!

Will sony listen? If they dont one hell of a lot of people are gonna say bye bye a mount....
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