Auditioning with the 85/1.4

Started Apr 15, 2007 | Discussions
brick33308
brick33308 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,376
Re: the final cut

I don't thing the shadow or wrinkles under the eyes is something that bespeaks bad or incorrect photographic technique. I'd rather see Uncle Frank's pictures with those things which can easily be corrected in post process, as opposed to eliminating them with flash to the point that the faces have that bad or blown out flash look. I like the black/white couple shot and I think Uncle Frank captured the special bond they share. Works for me.
--
http://brick.smugmug.com/

Jorge Barrantes Contributing Member • Posts: 593
Re: the final cut

brick33308 wrote:

I don't thing the shadow or wrinkles under the eyes is something
that bespeaks bad or incorrect photographic technique.

I don't think so either but we have to look at it form the client's point of view, she is not concerned about phtographic technique, she would be concerned about her eyes. At the end of the day she liked what she saw and hired Frank.

I like the black/white couple shot and I think Uncle Frank
captured the special bond they share. Works for me.
--

Special bond? with all due respect, they look like brother and sister. Maybe if they could be holding hands? gazing into each others eyes? heads closer together?

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,760
Re: What's the point?

Come on now Frank . . . that's not above board. Don't play the poor, pitiful victim. Be honest.

("my" newest bride and groom"?)

Here is what you originally posted . .

"I was interviewed today by a young couple looking for a photog for their September wedding. I'll be sending them a quote, and took a few sample pics to include with it. I use the Cream Machine for auditions, because it produces images that make me appear to be a better photographer than I actually am."

"I'm hoping these samples land me the job"

And you posted some not great photos where focus points were all over the place . . . . . shots that you got input from those that had valid points to TRY to help. From most of us, we seemed to be saying you could do better and that we stated we had all seen you do so. . . you even made changes to the originals, posted the changed samples and stated you were thankful.

You said you "interviewed" and your thread heading stated "audition" as in you were trying to get the gig so we tried to help out. And in typical Frank fashion, you got uptight and for the millionth time you began to call people trolls and other names and read 'in' to words and input that just was not there. Honestly, think how many time this has happened in your threads IF people give negative input to your photos.

Now . . . I hope the "job" works out if that is your wish. There are so many more important things going on in this world then getting too uptight about all this. Today my transmission in my car went out $3000 at least . . . I can't find my motorcycle and a few other heavy duty things went down. smile . . . and I am the lucky guy cause I didn't have a kid who was shot needlessly as they tried to better themself by going to school, so I would say we are lucky guys whether people at a forum like our photos or not or whether we get the comments we want or not.

Uncle Frank wrote:

glenn 67 wrote:

What's the point of this whole thread in the first place?

I started out sharing a few pictures of my newest bride, her groom,
and her cat. But it turned into a Seinfeld episode, Glenn..
pointless.

-- hide signature --

Knox
--
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Uncle Frank
OP Uncle Frank Forum Pro • Posts: 21,511
Re: posting to prove

Actually It started out sharing a few out of focus pictures with
really expensive gear in order to land a job.

They really weren't that bad, Zoomer. Some of the folks on the forum just aren't familiar with very narrow DOF images. It's something most owners of fast glass become addicted to, but I'll admit that it's not everyone's cuppa tea.

he will (hopefully) post some samples in october to prove all the negative and sometimes personal comments what his true skills are.

I'll definitely post some samples after the wedding, which will take place in early September, but I don't feel I have anything to prove... particularly to the three or four weenies who try to start flame wars with personal comments. I'll show my pictures because I enjoy sharing my delight with this wonderful hobby and with Nikon gear. There are 10 wedding albums in my gallery that you're welcome to browse through.

-- hide signature --

Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

 Uncle Frank's gear list:Uncle Frank's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5 Nikon D700
Ed Scruggs Regular Member • Posts: 296
Re: posting to prove

Wow UF, such an uproar over your preliminary shots. I think the couple will be very impressed even though others here seem to find fault. I personally like narrow DOF shots like yours. They add emotion not normally found in the usual 2 dimensional wedding photos. No question it's hard to get them right, but definitely worth the extra effort.

Your previous wedding posts certainly demonstrate your connection to the Bride, Groom, and their Families. Isn't that what these occasions are all about?

Regards, Ed

josephho Contributing Member • Posts: 881
congrats

good to hear you where ok with my statements, blunt as they may be.

i never wanted to photograph weddings for some of the same concerns i stated in my post but i got sucked into them on two occations and just didnt enjoy it much.

in honest truth, i knew nothing of your background other than the pictures shown.

and many congrats on an almost epicly long thread!
from your post, sounds like you got the job, good luck.

EvilGreg Regular Member • Posts: 255
Knox

knox wrote:

Now . . . I hope the "job" works out if that is your wish. There
are so many more important things going on in this world then
getting too uptight about all this. Today my transmission in my
car went out $3000 at least . . . I can't find my motorcycle and a
few other heavy duty things went down. smile . . . and I am
the lucky guy cause I didn't have a kid who was shot needlessly as
they tried to better themself by going to school, so I would say we
are lucky guys whether people at a forum like our photos or not or
whether we get the comments we want or not.

Knox,

I agreed with your whole post, but this part in particular. Gear wars and petty forum bs seems pretty silly when you think about everything else we all have to deal with.

I'm sorry to hear about your car problems. In my case I try to keep my cornea problems and kidney stones and such in perspective the same way. It could be worse, much worse.

Greg

P.S. Love your cat work, by the way, but the stories are too sad for me to spend too much time with--in addition to my wife and two little kids I also live with seven cats, most strays from the neighborhood we used to live in.

lanef Forum Pro • Posts: 10,317
Re: posting to prove

Ed Scruggs wrote:

I personally like narrow DOF shots like yours. They add
emotion not normally found in the usual 2 dimensional wedding
photos.

You are quite right here about narrow DOF, but with portraits, no matter how narrow your DOF can be, the eyes must be sharp, the same applies to pets.

DaveJA Senior Member • Posts: 1,609
I agree

Anytime you are shooting a portrait of any kind I can't ever believe the photographer's goal wouldn't be to nail the focus on the subject eyes, certainly if their is only one person in the frame that would be the case.

Now if you have two people in the frame it get's much harder at a large aperture like 1.4 to get the eyes of both people sharp if ther is even a small difference in the depth between the two subject.

I think in this case when you put the post up with an auditioning caption and the focal point is obviously missed on some of the shots it is fair for people to point that out here, certainly not in a mean or insulting way as some have though.

i think UF has put up a lot of good work on this forum as everyone knows but in this case from a purely technical standpoint it was not the case with these, I'm sure the picture would be of value to the B&G but would not stand out if a prospective customer was looking at them as wedding sample especially if they were looking at other's work with similar gear where the pictures were nailed.

Dave
--
D2Hs
D2H(Sold 3/3/06)
D70(Sold 4/1/05)
18-70 AFS, 85 1.8, 50 1.8D and 75-300(Sold 4/1/05)
70-200 2.8 VR
SB-800

Boris
Boris Veteran Member • Posts: 9,257
Re: posting to prove
 Boris's gear list:Boris's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Ricoh GR Digital IV Ricoh GR Ricoh GR II Canon EOS 60D +41 more
Uncle Frank
OP Uncle Frank Forum Pro • Posts: 21,511
Re: posting to prove

Lol! Great example, Boris.
--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

 Uncle Frank's gear list:Uncle Frank's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5 Nikon D700
lanef Forum Pro • Posts: 10,317
Re: posting to prove

I see what you mean. It works well as an abstract shot rather that a pic of a pet.

Boris wrote:

Boris
--
http://public.fotki.com/borysd/
http://www.pbase.com/borysd

lanef Forum Pro • Posts: 10,317
Re: posting to prove

Pardon my lousy typing: "rather than"

lanef wrote:
I see what you mean. It works well as an abstract shot rather that
a pic of a pet.

Boris wrote:

Boris
--
http://public.fotki.com/borysd/
http://www.pbase.com/borysd

Roland Wooster Senior Member • Posts: 2,116
Backfocus?

The 85mm F1.4 looks great (I wish I had one), and I think you'll probably land the job even with the problems people have pointed out.

One thing I was wondering, is whether you've actually got a backfocus problem. In the first two pictures where others have pointed out the eyes are OOF, what I notice is that the hair near their ears is sharper than their eye's. This looks like backfocus to me (presuming you AF'd on their face in the first place)

Roland.

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scoobs Contributing Member • Posts: 893
Yawn...

Is it time to wake up yet, or does Frank have to continue to defend his photos to people he doesn't know?

-- hide signature --

***************************
You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus.

  • Mark Twain

***************************

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scoobs/

********

Uncle Frank
OP Uncle Frank Forum Pro • Posts: 21,511
Re: Yawn...

scoobs wrote:

Is it time to wake up yet, or does Frank have to continue to defend
his photos to people he doesn't know?

Morning, Scoobs. I stopped discussing the photos 3 days ago.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=22867015

But the thread turned into an opportunity for a few determined bashers, who pop up whenever there's a chance to take a cheap shot at me. I've been defending myself, not the snaps.

-- hide signature --

Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

 Uncle Frank's gear list:Uncle Frank's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5 Nikon D700
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,760
Re: Yawn...

Ok . . . Now we are "bashers" . . . last night we were "weenies". There was a "troll" . . . . I am a "stalker" and I am something else too (some other name, that I can't remember now). What name is next?

Frank . . . . I shoot 'tight' (focus points / focal areas / subjects) with a lot of out of focus areas to lock down on the subject at hand. And usually it's shot from a fair distance, as I shoot more of a pj style. I play with meter readings and exposure in different areas so I move the camera around and then focus manually. I don't have the steadiest of hands and my eyes are getting bad close up so there are times I miss focus too. I don't trust the focus indicator AND there are many times I want a different exposure and focus area then where the meter is reading . . . so I can be all over the place. I find I can be more creative the more manual controls I use.

If you notice in this shot . . . the little alleycat's feet and ground are more in focus then her face / eyes. Not my intent and could easily be fixed in PS. My point being, missed focused points happen to all of us.
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/image/77103383

This one, the letters on the tire are more in focus then the little gal. Again, not my intent. I shot it fast cause I didn't want the little street soldier to move before I got a shot. The shot still works because of what it is. Nor is it suppose to be "pretty". Still, the lil gal could be better in focus. No one is buying this project for the clear tire photo. So . . I missed it. But I have leeway in this matter.
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/image/77103383

Point being, it happens to all of us . . . when you have non cooperative models as I tend to have with this project, and can't ask to 'take that shot once more' . . it doesn't bother me all that much. Nor do I care about 'perfection'. Though sometimes I have missed a great shot completely because of missed focus points as it is so obvious. Just part of the deal.

Though with close up portraits it is imperative. I hate "tack sharp". I even hate the phrase. But when points are missed, as you know it just draws your eyes (in people portraits to the wrong areas of the image).
There is a point in all my blathering . . . .

Several times on viewing your shots I have thought . . . seems he never uses DOF preview. I remember thinking that when looking at your food shots, (where I would think you want the whole plate of food in focus for a cafe's menu) or some of your people shots where there 'should' be two people equally in focus, (when they are right next to each other for example) . . . . one will be in focus and one won't. In this thread you can see how the woman is out of focus more then the guy, though as you know, neither are really properly in focus . . . . Again, I have an idea DOF preview would have assisted you. For someone to say it is 'creative' to have one fiancee in focus more then the other or that it's tight DOF could lose a job for you when they are sitting almost even looking directly at the camera. Many people, especially those that don't come from years of old time cameras when it was used all the time, forget to use DOF preview at critical times and end up with this kind of problem. Again . . it seems in many shots this could assist you. I tend to not use it as much on my digital camera, for some crazy reason, but use it all the time with the MF camera (go figure). Maybe because I take the MF more serious. Or ACT more serious smile . I THINK I am pretty good at making the right decisions (camera settings) but get caught many times with photos where previewing would have been so much better because my settings were just plain wrong and if I had just taken 5 seconds to preview, I would have known. MAYBE there is food for thought in this if you don't use DOF preview.

Uncle Frank wrote:

scoobs wrote:

Is it time to wake up yet, or does Frank have to continue to defend
his photos to people he doesn't know?

Morning, Scoobs. I stopped discussing the photos 3 days ago.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=22867015

But the thread turned into an opportunity for a few determined
bashers, who pop up whenever there's a chance to take a cheap shot
at me. I've been defending myself, not the snaps.

-- hide signature --

Knox
--
Avatar Photography
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,760
Re: Yawn... oops wrong 2nd photo . .

I meant this as second photo . . .
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/image/77123333

knox wrote:
Ok . . . Now we are "bashers" . . . last night we were "weenies".
There was a "troll" . . . . I am a "stalker" and I am something
else too (some other name, that I can't remember now). What name
is next?

Frank . . . . I shoot 'tight' (focus points / focal areas /
subjects) with a lot of out of focus areas to lock down on the
subject at hand. And usually it's shot from a fair distance, as I
shoot more of a pj style. I play with meter readings and exposure
in different areas so I move the camera around and then focus
manually. I don't have the steadiest of hands and my eyes are
getting bad close up so there are times I miss focus too. I don't
trust the focus indicator AND there are many times I want a
different exposure and focus area then where the meter is reading .
. . so I can be all over the place. I find I can be more creative
the more manual controls I use.

If you notice in this shot . . . the little alleycat's feet and
ground are more in focus then her face / eyes. Not my intent and
could easily be fixed in PS. My point being, missed focused points
happen to all of us.
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/image/77103383

This one, the letters on the tire are more in focus then the little
gal. Again, not my intent. I shot it fast cause I didn't want the
little street soldier to move before I got a shot. The shot still
works because of what it is. Nor is it suppose to be "pretty".
Still, the lil gal could be better in focus. No one is buying this
project for the clear tire photo. So . . I missed it. But I have
leeway in this matter.
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/image/77103383

Point being, it happens to all of us . . . when you have non
cooperative models as I tend to have with this project, and can't
ask to 'take that shot once more' . . it doesn't bother me all that
much. Nor do I care about 'perfection'. Though sometimes I have
missed a great shot completely because of missed focus points as it
is so obvious. Just part of the deal.

Though with close up portraits it is imperative. I hate "tack
sharp". I even hate the phrase. But when points are missed, as
you know it just draws your eyes (in people portraits to the wrong
areas of the image).
There is a point in all my blathering . . . .

Several times on viewing your shots I have thought . . . seems he
never uses DOF preview. I remember thinking that when looking at
your food shots, (where I would think you want the whole plate of
food in focus for a cafe's menu) or some of your people shots where
there 'should' be two people equally in focus, (when they are right
next to each other for example) . . . . one will be in focus and
one won't. In this thread you can see how the woman is out of
focus more then the guy, though as you know, neither are really
properly in focus . . . . Again, I have an idea DOF preview would
have assisted you. For someone to say it is 'creative' to have one
fiancee in focus more then the other or that it's tight DOF could
lose a job for you when they are sitting almost even looking
directly at the camera. Many people, especially those that don't
come from years of old time cameras when it was used all the time,
forget to use DOF preview at critical times and end up with this
kind of problem. Again . . it seems in many shots this could
assist you. I tend to not use it as much on my digital camera, for
some crazy reason, but use it all the time with the MF camera (go
figure). Maybe because I take the MF more serious. Or ACT more
serious smile . I THINK I am pretty good at making the right
decisions (camera settings) but get caught many times with photos
where previewing would have been so much better because my settings
were just plain wrong and if I had just taken 5 seconds to preview,
I would have known. MAYBE there is food for thought in this if you
don't use DOF preview.

Uncle Frank wrote:

scoobs wrote:

Is it time to wake up yet, or does Frank have to continue to defend
his photos to people he doesn't know?

Morning, Scoobs. I stopped discussing the photos 3 days ago.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=22867015

But the thread turned into an opportunity for a few determined
bashers, who pop up whenever there's a chance to take a cheap shot
at me. I've been defending myself, not the snaps.

-- hide signature --

Knox
--
Avatar Photography
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid

Boris
Boris Veteran Member • Posts: 9,257
Re: posting to prove

Tough crowd...the natives are restless..waiting for new Nikon goodies.
Boris
--
http://public.fotki.com/borysd/
http://www.pbase.com/borysd

 Boris's gear list:Boris's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Ricoh GR Digital IV Ricoh GR Ricoh GR II Canon EOS 60D +41 more
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,760
Re: Knox

Greg . . . transmissions just go out, don't they? It's just that I am dumb enough to have an old Mercedes cause I am a whacko and enjoy wood dashes / hauling ss and all that stupid 'stuff'. So I pay the price at times. Last week I spent $1200 on the air conditioning, this week $3000 on a transmission. At some point I might get smart and get something that makes sense. smile* If this keeps up, the car will soon be worth ONLY what the paper receipts are worth that are in the dash for repairs. My business is terrible right now so I may be riding my dog around town.

Now not knowing where my motorcycle is is a whole different problem. THAT'S a world class problem that someone could get their ss kicked over. smile* . . . can't screw with a man's motorcycle OR his dog.

As you say . . it all pales in comparison to what some find themselves going through in a NY second in this world.

Re: alleycats . . .yes, it is sad . . . but it's important to tell the truth so hopefully people will become proative in helping them. As you obviously know . . the alleycat problem is a human problem. They are just trying to survive in a world not made by them where they were dumped or left un-spayed and un-neutered. I believe in underdogs. smile

EvilGreg wrote:

knox wrote:

Now . . . I hope the "job" works out if that is your wish. There
are so many more important things going on in this world then
getting too uptight about all this. Today my transmission in my
car went out $3000 at least . . . I can't find my motorcycle and a
few other heavy duty things went down. smile . . . and I am
the lucky guy cause I didn't have a kid who was shot needlessly as
they tried to better themself by going to school, so I would say we
are lucky guys whether people at a forum like our photos or not or
whether we get the comments we want or not.

Knox,

I agreed with your whole post, but this part in particular. Gear
wars and petty forum bs seems pretty silly when you think about
everything else we all have to deal with.

I'm sorry to hear about your car problems. In my case I try to
keep my cornea problems and kidney stones and such in perspective
the same way. It could be worse, much worse.

Greg

P.S. Love your cat work, by the way, but the stories are too sad
for me to spend too much time with--in addition to my wife and two
little kids I also live with seven cats, most strays from the
neighborhood we used to live in.

-- hide signature --

Knox
--
Avatar Photography
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid

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