Lightroom vs C1 colours..please help..

But not rendering colors as accurately or truthfully.
... what you prefer: I prefer a beautiful photo to an accurate anytime. Photos aren't an accurate rendition of reality anyway. And the pics you show may well take some emotion.

But you decide. If you dont know what you like better, who can tell you?

Bernie
 
I read this philosophy in "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis. Instead of trying to calibrate everything to perfection, an impossible task, work on each photo individually, because each one has different aesthetic requirements anyway. In the case of the reds in your photo, a few clicks of the mouse will make them less orange, and then you can move on to the next photo.

-john
 
That woudl be great, I recently did a job where I had hundreds of photos the client wanted, so tweaking each photo was not an option, I needed to get best possible conversions. I tend to like C1 for color accuracy with skin tones.
I read this philosophy in "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.
Instead of trying to calibrate everything to perfection, an
impossible task, work on each photo individually, because each one
has different aesthetic requirements anyway. In the case of the
reds in your photo, a few clicks of the mouse will make them less
orange, and then you can move on to the next photo.

-john
 
only wish Magne would turn his considerable knowledge and skill
toward getting the best out of the Adobe converters... unlikely
since they don't accept icc profiles.
Hi Julio,
tweaks in the calibrate tab might get i.e. the reds "better" for a
given image, but it will make other areas generally worse. You need
more control. Add to that backward compatibility with prior ACR
stuff, thousands of XMP files and LR databases, and things
accumulate. So a change accepting a different model is not easy ...

~~~~
Magne
It was an idle wish :)

I do understand the differences in ACR's approach of 2 internal profiles per camera model and extrapolation (or more frequently, intrapolation) from those two to cover all lighting situations.

I've tweaked ACR using Tom Fors' script (and manually using Bruce Fraser's method upon which the Fors script is based) and I start off with better reds... unfortunately I can't seem to get that and accurate yellows (greenish) and blues (magentaish) at the same time...but I know what to expect and tweak yellows and blues later on in PS with a selective color layer.

Cheers.
 
That woudl be great, I recently did a job where I had hundreds of
photos the client wanted, so tweaking each photo was not an option,
I needed to get best possible conversions. I tend to like C1 for
color accuracy with skin tones.
Not trying to be confrontational here...

I am genuinely curious about your photoshoot because I see statements about "hundreds of photos" frequently and I always read that as "hundreds of white balances"...which, of course, would be a royal pain in the butt to process individualy... but you can have 100's of photos representing 2 or 3 WBs which would require just 2 or 3 adjustments beforte you let the batch processing rip...

I guess flash + ambient (as in a twilight wedding) is the only situation I can think of where you can have 100s of WBs and want to show the customer most of it anyway...but then I'd probably just batch WB for the flash and tweak the keepers later.
 
1. Brightness and contrast... There's a noticeable difference
between the two... my guess is that your C1+ Magne default is using
a linear contrast adjustment and Lightroom a "medium" contrast
curve + some default brightness adjustment, as their respective
defaults...easy enough to "fix"
No not quite. LR uses medium contrast as default and so does C1. It's called Film Standard. Linear response has much less contrast. But you are absolutely right that LR's medium contrast setting has much heavier contrast than the C1 equivalent Film Standard.
And LR has much more brightness as default.
2. Color... the old debate resurfaces :) Magne does great profiles.
His RSP profiles also were top notch. ACR (and Lightroom) don't
accept profiles in the conventional sense. Its a different approach
that Thomas Knoll and others have explained here many times... BUT
you can calibrate your own camera body yourself, apply the tweaks
to the calibrate tab and use that as your new color "default."
That may well be the way to go. I'll give it a try. But I guess it's very difficult and complex and would take months of experimenting... it's a pain.
3. Comparing raw-converter "defaults" is about as useful as
comparing the latest BMW and Porsche roadsters by lining them up
next to each other in a showroom and looking at them. You need the
same expert driver (you?) in there putting them through their paces
and trying to get the best performance out of them. Magne's
profiles get the best color out of C1... no one, to my knowledge,
has gottent the best out of LR yet.
Of course you are right. But the better starting point the quicker and easier to get it right.
99% of the time, when I see raw-converter comparisons here and
elsewhere that lean heavily in one direction, all I really get out
of it is that the reviewer is really comfortable with and knows how
to get the best out of one and not the other :)
I absolutely agree. I guess what I was hoping for was a preset suggestion by someone who has done a lot of homework with 5D and LR and come up with some very accurate color tweaking and made them into presets.
--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 
I read this philosophy in "Professional Photoshop" by Dan Margulis.
Instead of trying to calibrate everything to perfection, an
impossible task, work on each photo individually, because each one
has different aesthetic requirements anyway. In the case of the
reds in your photo, a few clicks of the mouse will make them less
orange, and then you can move on to the next photo.

-john
That was my starting point as wall. But then I simply couldn't make LR produce the correct kind of red (eg the shirt) that C1 produced pr default.

--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 
check my post.

i find a problem in red, big difference from what LR visualize a wath other apps visualiz.
ok LR is hue and sat out on red.

but looking te same image, converted from LR, inside LR and in PS (all working in srgb in a calibrated system) u will see significant difference on red.
LR visualize a more orange dominant.

loading the JPG converted from LR, it look identical to the modified RAW, so it really seem a visualization problem....
 
I have moved to Lightroom and have just went through a lot of calibration of the program with my 5D.

Very frustrating.

I visually calibrated a Lightroom preset to a Frontier 370 at Sam's.

I started with a Pounds lab file, sent it to the printer, then visually calibrated my monitor to that file & the print.

Then, (I do not have a MacBeth chart, so I made my own by going to Lowes and getting a lot of paint samples and glueing them to a piece of cardboard.)

I took a photo of this in a room without windows, lights off with a flash & Whibal.

Sent this to the Frontier without any corrections in Lightroom outside of white balance picking on the Whibal.

Then visually calibrated a Lightroom preset to match the photo of the color swatches and the real thing. (took a lot of trips to the printer with different settings).

I have to say it is amazing how far I had to bend everything to get proper reds and keep everything else in line.

The preset is for the Frontier and think a different preset would be needed for each printer used.

I strongly urge you to try this yourself as it will allow you to arrive at color you desire from your camera.

General presets will not work for this situation.

Such is digital photgraphy! It is not as easy as it looks to call oneself a professional with regards to color consistency.
 
but looking te same image, converted from LR, inside LR and in PS
(all working in srgb in a calibrated system) u will see significant
difference on red.
LR visualize a more orange dominant.
When I open a rawfile in LR and export the picture as tiff to PS CS2 and compare the Raw in LR with the Tiff in PS I don't see any difference.
Somewhere along the line you make a mistake.
Try and check View

--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 
but looking te same image, converted from LR, inside LR and in PS
(all working in srgb in a calibrated system) u will see significant
difference on red.
LR visualize a more orange dominant.
When I open a rawfile in LR and export the picture as tiff to PS
CS2 and compare the Raw in LR with the Tiff in PS I don't see any
difference.
Somewhere along the line you make a mistake.
Try and check View
This only happens if you are and Windows XP and 2000 (don't know about Vista), Macs reportedly are not affected. Even on Windows XP it may be difficult to spot it at first. Depending on the nature of monitor ICC, the differences may be either very obvious (color cast/ different overall contrast) or rather subtle (splotchiness, lack of gradation in deep shadows - like in my case).

BTW I am also affected by this same issue that Marco and a few other people on Adobe forums have reported. I see a very obvious loss of gradation in near blacks in LR Develop at 100%. THe shadows are all smooth and rather beautiful in the exported file, when viewed in PS or Qimage (two color managed programmes I have access to).

I believe this now grows to be a rather often occuring bug/issue with LR Develop preview. It appears to only affect LR under Windows (apparently due to the fact the LR uses Windows ICM to genereate on-screen preview), also only with some/many monitor ICCs. It could be an issue with LR, Windows ICM or various calibrator software vendor's ICCs (but then there are reports about problems with all the more usual ones - GMB, Colorvision, Basiccolor, Monaco). I do not know. I strongly suspect it is some sort of incompatibility between Windows ICM and LR. I wonder if things are better on Vista - it uses the new Windows CMS. This new CMS includes an updated ICM, which reportedly has many bugs of the old ICM fixed, and among other things now supports ver 4 ICCs. It is a pity that Microsoft does not offer an update for the ICM under Windows XP to bring it up to ver. 4 ICC specification.
 


and white balance adjustment. Camera calibration controls are all zeroed.

Francis
 


and white balance adjustment. Camera calibration controls are all
zeroed.

Francis
This is very very good. I wish you hadn't corrected white balance as I wanted to see if it was possible to approach the red colored shirt that came out as default in C1 without correcting the whitebalance because the WB wasn't corrected in C1 either.

I couldn't get the reds to match C1 this closely. Would you mind sharing the settings? Did you make a Preset?

--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 
http://www.pbase.com/kluken/spa

This is a small rough sample of wht the shoot entailed. Every area of the spa had different lighting, not to mention each steam/sauna soom had different lighting (these weere mostly incadescent). The deliverbale was to be used mostly for web, but also some brochures. They did wanted the place balnket covered by photos and woudl select specifics later for the web designer. Ebing as I needed to deliver all images first in JPEG then the RAW images I did not want to expect that the person on the other end would know anything about WB. For simplicity and convienence I shot RAW + Small and did a Custom WB using the EXPODISC any time I moved to a different room or area. 99+% of the JPEGs are dead on with WB and only some need exposure adjuestments, but as I know some of the shot were dynamic range issues I shot some bracketed to give them the widest possible use of shots without having to process them. The final total was around 350 shots, sure most will never get used, but I gave them what they asked for.
That woudl be great, I recently did a job where I had hundreds of
photos the client wanted, so tweaking each photo was not an option,
I needed to get best possible conversions. I tend to like C1 for
color accuracy with skin tones.
Not trying to be confrontational here...
I am genuinely curious about your photoshoot because I see
statements about "hundreds of photos" frequently and I always read
that as "hundreds of white balances"...which, of course, would be a
royal pain in the butt to process individualy... but you can have
100's of photos representing 2 or 3 WBs which would require just 2
or 3 adjustments beforte you let the batch processing rip...
I guess flash + ambient (as in a twilight wedding) is the only
situation I can think of where you can have 100s of WBs and want to
show the customer most of it anyway...but then I'd probably just
batch WB for the flash and tweak the keepers later.
 
But not rendering colors as accurately or truthfully.
... what you prefer: I prefer a beautiful photo to an accurate
anytime. Photos aren't an accurate rendition of reality anyway. And
the pics you show may well take some emotion.
I prefer to have accuracy as a starting point for tweaking. Not colors that are off pr. default.
--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 
To me, it's a colour space issue. What did you output to in C1? One of the problems with LR I seem to recall is that you can't define the output colour space. I'm not 100% sure, but I think LR outputs to ProColor space.

Reds coming out orange almost always means some kind of colour management issue in your workflow.
 
To me, it's a colour space issue. What did you output to in C1?
sRGB
One of the problems with LR I seem to recall is that you can't
define the output colour space. I'm not 100% sure, but I think LR
outputs to ProColor space.
No, I get to choose the output colorspace (I can choose between ProPhoto, Adobe 1998 and sRGB). I chose the latter.
So it should be the same.

In C1 I can choose my calibrated monitorprofile as workspace.

In LR there are no choices. But that doesn't explain the output differences shown here.
--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 
You can try this preset:
http://www.fyap.net/write/dpreviewLR.zip

Let me know if it's a decent starting point for your other images to compare with C1 Magne. I think as lot of color issues are tone curve, exposure and white balance related, rather than requiring ACR camera calibration tab adjustment.

Francis
This is very very good. I wish you hadn't corrected white balance
as I wanted to see if it was possible to approach the red colored
shirt that came out as default in C1 without correcting the
whitebalance because the WB wasn't corrected in C1 either.
I couldn't get the reds to match C1 this closely. Would you mind
sharing the settings? Did you make a Preset?
 
Thank you, Sir!
Let me know if it's a decent starting point for your other images
to compare with C1 Magne. I think as lot of color issues are tone
curve, exposure and white balance related, rather than requiring
ACR camera calibration tab adjustment.
So far it seems to be a terrific starting point. I'll experiment a bit with it. Only thing is I wouldn't decrease exposure but brightness.

--
best regards
Michael
http://www.michaelbennati.dk
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=14
http://michaelbennati.dk/galleri/index.php?list=58
 

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