HP DesignJet 130 for B&W.........

Is it possible to convert the DJ130 to a monchrome printer only? Like by using Quad Tone inks or other methods.
John W

Hi guys! Well, I still have until mid to end of summer before I purchase any new large format printer, but was just curious on the conversion. The reason is if I could get super high quality B&W's out of the DJ130 with a monochrome inkset, I believe I would go that way. When I start looking at the Z2100 and 3100 and then the Canon ipf6000 the price is way more than I want to pay. I also love the color output of the DJ130 and really don't think I need more in that department, but I would also like to print 24" wide in B&W. Right now my son-in-law can get me a very good deal on the DJ130 and at that price I could buy two DJ130's for a bit less than the other printers mentioned. That's why I ask the question of using just a graded set of blacks in a DJ130. If it would work I would go with one for color and one dedicated to strictly B&W.
JohnW

A rip will give Black channel control over the 6 colour inkset. I have modified rgb profiles for output that is reasonable in greyscale. You can try different rips, or modified rgb profiles yet if you want to print primarily B&W you need a tri tone grey, one black will not be enough.

I don't agree though that pigment is the only way. For certain users the dynamic range of stable dyes on Satin media are much more to their liking than the more compressed flatter pigment prints.

Hp is continuing development with their Vivera dyes, so there is a continuing saga for those who do like the richness of dyes.
Funny thing; this week I printed a bigger portfolio on the Z 3100 on Pro satin.

I laid all the old prints on the ground mostly Satin from the 130, and the new pigment prints on top of the smaller previous ones.

I'd say the Z is much more accurate, the grayscale absolutely perfect, very sharp. Yet in the end even after the last few years of testing and working with the pigment printers, the HP 130 makes the richest prints by such a long way that I wonder if ever pigments will reach THAT type of black !

colourgeek wrote:

A rip will give Black channel control over the 6 colour inkset. I
have modified rgb profiles for output that is reasonable in
greyscale. You can try different rips, or modified rgb profiles yet
if you want to print primarily B&W you need a tri tone grey, one
black will not be enough.

Neil, you are the primary reason I still think the DJ130 is the best 24" printer for me. Even with its limitations, as you explained, you still seem to have alot of respect for the 130 and in general consider its output superb to many other printers, which sometimes cost nearly twice as much. I also like how the DJ130 is so frugal on the use of its ink and the fact that clogging is not really a problem(I had a terrible time with the older Epson printers). I have seen the color output of the DJ130, but have not yet seen the B&W output(I know of nobody in my area that has the DJ130) and realize that without the proper RIP or profile it might not be to my liking. I hear there is a store in my area that uses the DJ130 for there printing so I might have a B&W done by them to see what I think. If I go this route is there anything/directions I should give the operator in the setup and printing of the B&W file?

Neil, do you think someday that it will be possible to dedicate a DJ130 to strictly B&W output or am I just dreaming? Maybe the way the ink cartridges are arranged make this impossible as I don't know how the 130 or any other HP printer for that matter, has there ink sets arranged.

I don't agree though that pigment is the only way. For certain
users the dynamic range of stable dyes on Satin media are much more
to their liking than the more compressed flatter pigment prints.
Hp is continuing development with their Vivera dyes, so there is a
continuing saga for those who do like the richness of dyes.
Funny thing; this week I printed a bigger portfolio on the Z 3100
on Pro satin.
I laid all the old prints on the ground mostly Satin from the 130,
and the new pigment prints on top of the smaller previous ones.
I'd say the Z is much more accurate, the grayscale absolutely
perfect, very sharp. Yet in the end even after the last few years
of testing and working with the pigment printers, the HP 130 makes
the richest prints by such a long way that I wonder if ever
pigments will reach THAT type of black !

-- hide signature --

Neil Snape photographer Paris
http://www.neilsnape.com

...........the above post is more or less directed to you for your advice and input.
Thanks,
John W

JW PHOTO wrote:

Neil, you are the primary reason I still think the DJ130 is the
best 24" printer for me. Even with its limitations, as you
explained, you still seem to have alot of respect for the 130 and
in general consider its output superb to many other printers, which
sometimes cost nearly twice as much. I also like how the DJ130 is
so frugal on the use of its ink and the fact that clogging is not
really a problem(I had a terrible time with the older Epson
printers). I have seen the color output of the DJ130, but have not
yet seen the B&W output(I know of nobody in my area that has the
DJ130) and realize that without the proper RIP or profile it might
not be to my liking. I hear there is a store in my area that uses
the DJ130 for there printing so I might have a B&W done by them to
see what I think. If I go this route is there anything/directions
I should give the operator in the setup and printing of the B&W
file?
Neil, do you think someday that it will be possible to dedicate a
DJ130 to strictly B&W output or am I just dreaming? Maybe the way
the ink cartridges are arranged make this impossible as I don't
know how the 130 or any other HP printer for that matter, has there
ink sets arranged.

I can print some B&W's and send them to you both 9180 and or 130 to see.

Before the 8750, 7960 had tri tone dye grey inks. Why not for the DJ dye series. While you don't see much in the way of third party inks for the DJ printers it could be that the number of photo printers out there are largely populated by Epson.
That said Epson over the last year filed lawsuits against many of them.

I can say little about HP's plans , all I know , and what is sure, is development on the Vivera dye inks is far from over. The DJ 90+130 are also going to be in the sales channels , not dropped because of the pigment launches. For the price point the 130 can do a lot more than the 30 with the 30 price being around the same as the 9180 so it was no longer needed. The 90+130 are still doing well despite the newness surrounding the pigment printers.

The DJ printers do not clog. Or at least after testing more than 6 of them over 5 years , I didn't see any!

I did change a black print head a few months ago as it said it should be done due to the expiry date, but that the extent of clogs with the dyes.

...............I first want to thank you for taking the time to help. Not just me, but many others who visit this forum. Yes, I would greatly appreciate it if you could find the time to send me a couple of B&W prints to judge/compare. Where I live it is hard to locate the equipment to do the comparison so I try to glean as much information from these forums as possible, but there is nothing like looking at the results with the naked eye. I do not have much experience with HP's printers, but do with Epson and that has not always been pleasant. When the Epson printers are working properly the output is great, but for me they were very temperamental and had many clogging issues.

I will email you to arrange the mailing of the prints and thank you very, very much.
John Wiegerink

Yes I will, but I always like to print the person asking pictures.
--
Neil Snape photographer Paris http://www.neilsnape.com

colourgeek wrote:

Yes I will, but I always like to print the person asking pictures.

I'm sorry Neil as I don't quite understand?
JohnW

-- hide signature --

Neil Snape photographer Paris
http://www.neilsnape.com

Yes I was trying to say , I prefer to print your pictures as they then can be printed on whatever other printer you like for comparison.

For the B&W profiles. Yes by all means try them. I did and even found the profile fairly easily considering the complicated nature of subjective evaluation of greyscale printing. If I remeber right it was + 5 Magenta.

These ring around profile sets were developped with insistance on yours truly, and the group of power users by HP. They are very nice to have, easy to use/configure, and thus greatly appreciated by HP to have provided them.

To take things further, if you use one media, you can hand edit an rgb profile for the driver that hacks the grey composition curves in the profile to try to come as close as possible to neutral, OR whatever you like as bias in greyscale prints that is. It works, is reasonable, not perfect though.

You can go further than that and buy ImagePRint and use the better control over the printer and customise presets in the rip for white point balance for any media. There is even someone on the HP Richard Southward?? that made excellent hand edited profiles for the HP RIP .

In any case all printers have compromises and the 130 or DJ 6 colour inkset isn't best at greayscale for neutrality. For Dmax there is nothing, and I mean nothing like it. I get Dmax numbers in and around L1.9 sometimes L 1.8 which is unattainable with pigments.
--
Neil Snape photographer Paris http://www.neilsnape.com

colourgeek wrote:

Yes I was trying to say , I prefer to print your pictures as they
then can be printed on whatever other printer you like for
comparison.

Thanks for the clarification Neil. I thought that's what you meant, but wasn't sure. I'm on an extended trip(won't be back for at least 2 weeks) at the moment and only have my Olympus E1 with me, but I might take a couple of scenics and get one to you. It's only 5mp, but it's a good 5mp's. I'll shoot them in monochrome mode setting on the camera in jpeg output. The jpeg quality of the E1 is about the best there is.

My real reason for getting the DJ130 is for printing files from scanned 4x5 and medium format film, both B&W and color. I don't mind doing a little extra work as long as the results are worth it.

Thanks again,
John W

For the B&W profiles. Yes by all means try them. I did and even
found the profile fairly easily considering the complicated nature
of subjective evaluation of greyscale printing. If I remeber right
it was + 5 Magenta.
These ring around profile sets were developped with insistance on
yours truly, and the group of power users by HP. They are very nice
to have, easy to use/configure, and thus greatly appreciated by HP
to have provided them.

To take things further, if you use one media, you can hand edit an
rgb profile for the driver that hacks the grey composition curves
in the profile to try to come as close as possible to neutral, OR
whatever you like as bias in greyscale prints that is. It works, is
reasonable, not perfect though.
You can go further than that and buy ImagePRint and use the better
control over the printer and customise presets in the rip for white
point balance for any media. There is even someone on the HP
Richard Southward?? that made excellent hand edited profiles for
the HP RIP .
In any case all printers have compromises and the 130 or DJ 6
colour inkset isn't best at greayscale for neutrality. For Dmax
there is nothing, and I mean nothing like it. I get Dmax numbers in
and around L1.9 sometimes L 1.8 which is unattainable with pigments.
--
Neil Snape photographer Paris
http://www.neilsnape.com